Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)
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Not surprising that you missed the point. They got good value for a disgruntled player that publicly stated he didn't want to play with the team anymore.
The Canucks got crap value for their disgruntled player.
Do you understand this point?
Here it is even further.
The lightning got good value based on the quality of player they were giving up and the situation he created.
The Canucks got bad value based on the quality of player they were giving Up and the situation he created.
Even more simpler
The bolts got 4 quarters for their dollar.
The Canucks got 3 nickels for their quarter
The Canucks didn't get crap value IMO. They acquired Nick Bonino who was signed for three seasons at 1.9M cap hit -- that is an extremely valuable asset. And then the first round pick as well.
They didn't target the RIGHT players (we needed a good young D) but in terms of value it wasn't all that bad.
Bonino is obviously not as good as Kesler, all-around but I really feel that people still overrate Kesler a bit and underrate the value of having a good player signed to a cheap contract. Bonino pretty much replaced Kesler's production at even strength while playing the most PK minutes of our forwards. Again, is he as good as Kesler? No, but the gap there isn't as wide as people think IMO and Bonino carrying just a 1.9M cap hit (for 3 seasons!) just makes him crazy valuable.
At the time I thought it was quite shrewd of Benning to recognize this but of course I later found out that he didn't understand this at all and pointlessly swapped him for the more expensive Sutter. But no matter, in terms of value for Kesler I didn't mind that trade all that much even though it wasn't the players I would have targeted.
They didn't target the RIGHT players (we needed a good young D) but in terms of value it wasn't all that bad.
Bonino is obviously not as good as Kesler, all-around but I really feel that people still overrate Kesler a bit and underrate the value of having a good player signed to a cheap contract. Bonino pretty much replaced Kesler's production at even strength while playing the most PK minutes of our forwards. Again, is he as good as Kesler? No, but the gap there isn't as wide as people think IMO and Bonino carrying just a 1.9M cap hit (for 3 seasons!) just makes him crazy valuable.
At the time I thought it was quite shrewd of Benning to recognize this but of course I later found out that he didn't understand this at all and pointlessly swapped him for the more expensive Sutter. But no matter, in terms of value for Kesler I didn't mind that trade all that much even though it wasn't the players I would have targeted.
Kesler is a great player.
His contract though, is horrendous.
The 6 year 30MM deal we gave him was *perfect* value, but oh man $6.875MM with term....yikes.
Oh new game good!
I am confused, Burk and Nonis told Gillis to re-sign the twins on great new contracts?
A true one team trade request for a guy with no time left on his contract. All that matters is one team got value and the other did not.
How about we bring up Heatley?
Eddie Lack 41 2324 95 2.45 18 13 4 1106 0.921 8 2
Ryan Miller 45 2542 107 2.53 29 15 1 1091 0.911 5 6
One of these goalies played tougher teams, and in tougher minutes like second night of back to backs and down the stretch.
Ryan Miller
51 3027 137 2.70 17 24 9 1497 0.916 13 1
Jacob Markstrom
32 1837 84 2.73 13 14 4 904 0.915 2 0
So wouldn't that mean our goaltending now is still weak?
Intangibos
High-End Intangibos
Not only was Bonino with Sbisa not enough, but we didn't even flip Bonino with his extremely valuable contract for futures either. Instead we overpaid for a comparable player in Sutter, who was an upcoming UFA, and paid him UFA money anyway.
I completely agree. Although I think we could have gotten more value.
It's in the details like the flipping thirds instead of getting one, and choosing the wrong cap dump. I mean the one we got was a true dump from Ana POV where we should have gotten use out of said dump.
Having said that #vote4sbisa
Oh, I definitely think we could have gotten more. Anaheim wanted Kesler badly and quickly signed him to an insane extension.
I was willing to give Benning the benefit of the doubt being a rookie GM dealing with a somewhat difficult situation and picking up an outstanding surplus-value player in Bonino.
But that good will is of course gone now...
The Sutter trade, while not the most damaging, I think so perfectly highlights the complete inability to read our needs that this management group has shown for so long now.
They seem to think like the majority of fans who every year conclude that their team lost in the playoffs because they aren't "edgy/gritty" enough and need more "playoff-style" players. So we bring in Prust and Sutter because they are "playoff players" in their stupid minds, and then of course don't come anywhere near the playoffs.
When of course our actual problem against Calgary was our awful Bieksa/Sbisa pairing that our dingus coach insisted on playing 18 minutes a game (while Hartley played his 3rd pairing about 3 minutes a game.)
We also insisted on getting Bonino who was far more valuable to them than he could ever be to us. Now that one may have been on ownership, but regardless Bonino was basically becoming their Alex Burrows.
Reverend Mayhem
Serial Hanlon's Razor Ignorer
I actually liked the trade once I got past the whole not full rebuild thing. As bad as Sbisa the target was, Bonino I thought was savvy from a hockey POV and a business POV, Benning actually mentioned him having a good contract and being a contributor as a reason for targeting him and I thought "Wow, yeah I totally see that". Never mention his streakiness, he was actually a pretty competent as a 2nd line center in his season here and could really be slotted in the 2 or 3 hole with no problem.
Then we made IMO a lateral move at best, Sutter is a good player but probably best suited for wing. He gets going too fast for his shot on the breakout (which is great) to have room to get off coming up the middle as a trailing option there is not enough separation and while his cycling game is good, he doesn't win enough puck battles for the Sedins otherwise I think he's best as 1RW. I just never liked the fit in the lineup and on top of that he made 250% more than Bonino did on the cap.
And unfortunately McCann turned out the way he did. There's still hope for him but I still think he's best suited as a center and Florida has no room for him there - again a fit thing.
Yep, I am speaking strictly in terms of value.
We needed to get a good young D (not Sbisa) and we needed to load up on picks/prospects. Gillis understood this when he traded Schneider for (effectively) Horvat. We traded Kesler for a 26 year old and late 1st rounder ... not the right targets, but strictly in terms of *value* we did not get poor value in the trade because Bonino's contract made him highly valuable. IMO.
And as someone else had mentioned, if we had gotten a couple years out of Bonino while transitioning to Bo, and then flipped him for picks/prospects, that would have made it better.
y2kcanucks
Better than you
Reverend Mayhem
Serial Hanlon's Razor Ignorer
The numbers are only from this year. Lack's played 235 minutes which is pretty much 4 games.
But yeah, that should be enough to make a strong argument.
What's the point of arguing with a pigeon if he's just going to knock all the pieces over, **** on the board, and strut 'round like he won?
Jimson Hogarth*
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
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PM
Glass not 1/2 full
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If you trade away a goalie who does well on your team to another team and he doesn't do well there is it validation for you trading away that goalie when he was doing well on your team? No, no it is not.
But we both know that. And so does he.
Tinhorn1
Registered User
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KeninsFan
Fire Benning already
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I don't like that contract either but would the Ducks trade Kesler today for:
Bonino, Sbisa and a late 1st? I don't think so.
As another thought experiment I don't think TBL would deal Garrison back to us for a 2nd either.
mathonwy
Positively #toxic
- Jan 21, 2008
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The Ducks wouldn't trade Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa and a late 1st past, present or future.
Well, maybe future if future Kesler looked like Dany Heatley.
ginner classic
Dammit Jim!
Samzilla
Prust & Dorsett are
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