It is a starting point for a teardown. At least they aren't going into it with a completely empty cupboard prior to the teardown. Obviously the teams that have already bottomed out have much better cores. You also for whatever reason forgot Sam Bennett in the Flames core, I'd say he's probably more important than Hamilton and Tkachuk long-term.
Proposal: Canucks Firesale
- Thread starter Canuck Luck
- Start date
clunk
Registered User
snipes
How cold? I’m ice cold.
- Dec 28, 2015
- 55,618
- 63,857
Bennett is there for sure. I added the mention at the end that it's not an exhaustive list. Flames also have Jankowski (when will he arrive?), and maybe Kylington? I think Kylington has terrible hockey IQ and prone to bone headed turnovers which will prevent him from becoming an NHLer personally.
Oilers also have Benson, Caggiula, Ellis, Paigin, and others that I didn't mention. The prior list was just a brief mention of who the Canucks are facing going forward.
Canucks are facing some serious competition in the coming years in the Pacific from the Flames, Oilers, and Coyotes. This isn't even to mention the Cali teams.
But it's too much fun
Tanev
Sbisa
for
Gardiner
Rychel/Leivo
2017 2nd
If it's a firesale which the OP says it is I am not sure Gardiner would be involved
Liferleafer
TSN Scrum Lurker
- Feb 9, 2011
- 39,848
- 13,005
Take a quick trip through the other Tanev threads....it's a slippery slope into dispair when it comes to Tanev and the Leafs...
clunk
Registered User
Let's go full on shake up...
Tanev + Virtanen for Kapanen, Rychel, your 1st and your 2nd round pick this year.
This is something around what I'd probably want for Tanev.
Tanev + Virtanen for Kapanen, Rychel, your 1st and your 2nd round pick this year.
This is something around what I'd probably want for Tanev.
JuniorNelson
Registered User
Canucks are built around the Sedins, who have become too slow. Start there. What do you do with players too slow to compete any more? Let's reference Higgins and Prust.
Until Sedins are gone there will always be the temptation to play them. Since they require O zone starts and are too slow to provide any defense at all, you are compromising the team. The only answer, given their contracts and this ownership, is to find a way to make them successful. Since they will be forced upon the roster, put them with two faster guys after moving Henrik to wing. There is nothing else. Sedins cannot be deployed together any more. They are too needy to play second or third line minutes. Split 'em or sit 'em!
Changing coaching is an offseason move. Canucks management are not that nimble. They failed to attract an NHL coach before, is there any reason to think they will do better, now?
GM Benning has stated his position on trades. He failed to find scoring all Summer (unless you count Eriksson). I do not expect roster help, now. Any Canuck player would be regarded as a project in need of serious therapy, anyway. I doubt there is a market.
Until Sedins are gone there will always be the temptation to play them. Since they require O zone starts and are too slow to provide any defense at all, you are compromising the team. The only answer, given their contracts and this ownership, is to find a way to make them successful. Since they will be forced upon the roster, put them with two faster guys after moving Henrik to wing. There is nothing else. Sedins cannot be deployed together any more. They are too needy to play second or third line minutes. Split 'em or sit 'em!
Changing coaching is an offseason move. Canucks management are not that nimble. They failed to attract an NHL coach before, is there any reason to think they will do better, now?
GM Benning has stated his position on trades. He failed to find scoring all Summer (unless you count Eriksson). I do not expect roster help, now. Any Canuck player would be regarded as a project in need of serious therapy, anyway. I doubt there is a market.
Brock Radunske
안양종합운동장 빙상장
- Aug 8, 2012
- 16,787
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Probably fair value but without top 10 protection on that first, I can't see the Leafs doing it.
I really want the Leafs to make a play for a good RHD but unless it's being paid for by prospects and roster players, I can't see it happening.
Besides, our oldest core player is...what, 23? There is time.
Old Guy
Just waitin' on my medication.
- Aug 30, 2015
- 1,847
- 1,645
I don't get to watch too many Canucks games, but have seen a few when they have Eastern Time Zone starts. I scanned the Season Preview and Prospects editions of the Hockey News. Just one guys opinion - there is not one roster player that excites me - from either a skill, performance or value (contract) perspective. The only prospect that excites me is Olli Juolevi. Brock Boeser or Thatcher Demko do nothing for me, but I'm not a scout. They might turn out great.
My suggestion is to ONLY make a deal if it is a current player for a draft pick. Vancouver has one in each of the first 4 rounds; no 5th or 6th and a does have their 7th in June 2017. If they do tank and get the 1st OA pick, I would trade it on draft day for the very best package of picks they can possibly get. They should actually work to try and acquire 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds for both 2017 and 2018. The mantra should be "TRADE DOWN-ACQUIRE PICKS" Now, having said all this, if Trevor Linden is not 100% convinced that Jim Benning is the guy that can accomplish this (plus scouting staff for that matter), I would show him the door today. Chris McFarland, Asst. GM of the Avs and Kyle Dubas of the TML would be on the interview list. I would begin to acquire the draft picks and target the very best defensemen and goalies that are available in the draft. I would use the reverse strategy that the Oilers employed. The heck with forwards and centers. Draft and develop defense and goal. The reason for this is because it generally takes 1-2 years additional to develop D-men and goalies (Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski, being exceptions - that is what you are looking to trade your 1st OA for). Then begin to acquire those bargain forwards that are always available in August or early September for value and short term. Think extreme use of PTO's and use of Waiver Wire. If done correctly, in just a bit of time, value trade opportunities for forward and center will scream a path to your front door. In 2 short years (approx January 1, 2019), this team will be stocked with some significant assets and prospects that will be coming together.
Building a team is hard enough, but an additional strike against the Canucks is the fact that Las Vegas will pluck one player from the roster, plus will be bottom feeding in the same division next year.
Good luck.
My suggestion is to ONLY make a deal if it is a current player for a draft pick. Vancouver has one in each of the first 4 rounds; no 5th or 6th and a does have their 7th in June 2017. If they do tank and get the 1st OA pick, I would trade it on draft day for the very best package of picks they can possibly get. They should actually work to try and acquire 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds for both 2017 and 2018. The mantra should be "TRADE DOWN-ACQUIRE PICKS" Now, having said all this, if Trevor Linden is not 100% convinced that Jim Benning is the guy that can accomplish this (plus scouting staff for that matter), I would show him the door today. Chris McFarland, Asst. GM of the Avs and Kyle Dubas of the TML would be on the interview list. I would begin to acquire the draft picks and target the very best defensemen and goalies that are available in the draft. I would use the reverse strategy that the Oilers employed. The heck with forwards and centers. Draft and develop defense and goal. The reason for this is because it generally takes 1-2 years additional to develop D-men and goalies (Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski, being exceptions - that is what you are looking to trade your 1st OA for). Then begin to acquire those bargain forwards that are always available in August or early September for value and short term. Think extreme use of PTO's and use of Waiver Wire. If done correctly, in just a bit of time, value trade opportunities for forward and center will scream a path to your front door. In 2 short years (approx January 1, 2019), this team will be stocked with some significant assets and prospects that will be coming together.
Building a team is hard enough, but an additional strike against the Canucks is the fact that Las Vegas will pluck one player from the roster, plus will be bottom feeding in the same division next year.
Good luck.
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GoodbyeLuongo
Registered User
I don't know what you're watching, but I'm really intrigued to know how Brock Boeser does nothing for you. He's absolutely shredding at ND
Randy Randerson
Registered User
I think looking at Boeser, Horvat, Juolevi and Demko, it's an alright start for a team that hasn't decided to rebuild. If they're bad this year (I'm sure Van fans are praying that they don't go on some fleeting, unsustainable win streak in March and end up drafting 10th) then they're adding a very good prospect in Patrick/Liljegren/Vilardi etc.
If they ship out Edler for a pick+good prospect (Honka was offered in this thread) and Tanev for a 1st+bluechip prospect or something along those lines, it could start to look much better in a few years
does look pretty daunting right now though, and I'm not sure what the Sedins, Eriksson, Miller, Hansen or Gudbranson are worth, I'm sure they all get something but I wouldn't think major returns
Lou would laugh you off the phone.
Virtanen has minimal value to Toronto. Babcock would lose his mind trying to coach that busting 4th liner.
And that unprotected 1st isn't on the table even straight up for tanev. Let alone adding high end prospects
That's awful.
clunk
Registered User
I think you're undervaluing Tanev. Look how he played with Rielly and how much Rielly would be able to thrive beside him and a 1st and 2nd in a weak draft year + two prospects that aren't Marner, Matthews, Nylander etc is very fair for Tanev + Virtanen who could find his form in Toronto under Babcock.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
depends where it looks like our pick will be and how Kapanen is being valued. If this is a TDL deal and Leafs are a bottom 10 team and Kapanen is still above ppg in the AHL, then that is already a huge haul
Not trying to devalue Tanev, he's your most valuable trade bait, but there is some pieces in that from the Toronto side that are very value-fluid
personally I think your overvaluing tanev, but to each their own.
Riddle me this than: why wouldn't Toronto keep that 1st round pick, draft their own defensemen, 8 years younger than tanev, with a high potential of being better than tanev. On top of that, we get to keep the additional prospects and picks that you wanted.
As for right now, Nikita Zaitsev is replicating the Tanev-Rielly pairing extremely well. And he actually provides more offense than Tanev. He's only a rookie still, but looks like he could easily play top pairing with Mo for years.
At that price, keep Tanev.
People have to be realistic....could Toronto use Tanev...you betcha. Is he a top pairing D man? No.
He might be a top pairing dman on Vancouver....but they are not a good team. Ideally on a good team Tanev is a 2nd pairing dman.
So what is the going rate for a 2nd pairing dman?
Assuming Vancouver will embrace the rebuild...they should be looking at prospects and a pick.
If I am Toronto...I offer Carrick/Dermott, Leipsic and our late 2nd for him.
Now Benning be Benning.....he might take Matt Martin, Brooks Laich and a signed Auston Matthews game worn jersey.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
I think the only reason we go after Tanev is if we think we're ahead of schedule. If we think what we have is sustainable and it doesn't massively mortgage the future to try to get better now, then you do it. Everything has to be working though - Kids have to maintain their performance, Rielly/Zaitsev/Gardiner have to continue to look good, Andersen has to look like a starter, results have to be there and the underlying/advanced stats have to say its not a fluke
Now I think the KK+1st+2nd+Rychel is a little much, but it depends how we're faring in the standings (changes the value of the 1st and 2nd picks) and how KK is doing in the AHL
I'm a Leafs fan, Tanev is a #2 dman on a good team. He's one dimensional, sure, but he's good enough to play 20+ minutes per night against the other team's best players and have a very positive impact on your chances of winning
He'll fetch more than what you're offering there, unless by some miracle Leipsic goes 2ppg and gets valued as a top 20 prospect in the NHL
have a look at what Ottawa fans are offering in the Value of Tanev thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2145947&page=9
I think he would fit very nicely into our top 4 because it's already offensive with Rielly/Zaitsev/Gardiner, a Vlasic type wouldn't hurt to add
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ViewsFromThe6ix
Zachary on the Attackary
I'd agree Tanev is a #2(albeit on the low end of a #2)
Now I don't know where your getting the rest from, cause I never offered anything. I simply said crunks ask was ridiculous, and I'll gladly hold go that.
A top 5/10 1st + 31-40 pick + Kapanen is crazy for a one dimensional #2 defenseman.
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