Canucks 2024-2025 Line Combinations and Roster Discussion

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Hmm? I never said Sprong was a poor fit with Miller. I don't think his actual offensive style is similar to Tanguay at all, but I think his offense-defense ratio and potential effect/complement offensively with those two can maybe be similar (I always thought Tanguay's defensive game was almost non-existent those years, but it never mattered on those lines). I'm also not married with Miller necessarily needing to be the high leverage guy when the Garland line seems really capable of it, and depending on the third winger, the Pettersson line could turn into one as well. Lots of options in that regard. If Miller/Boeser's strong defensive ability instead gets utilized via making Sprong viable as a first liner (which is otherwise an insanely tall order, despite arguably having the offensive ability), that would be just as effective/worthwhile of a way to make use of it, IMO.

I think Sprong's typical (possibly optimal) deployment is odd like Hoglander's, but I also don't see him as the tunnel-vision one-man show type like him, necessarily-- he does seem to be able to complement other players offensively and function as an offensive catalyst of sorts for others. Seems like it's purely his defense that holds him back, not his inability to play with skilled guys (which is partly Hoglander's problem). Also, I dunno, even if their combined lack of defense didn't scare me like it does (I wouldn't be comfortable with Suter covering for both of them), I would have doubts that Hoglander + Sprong would mix well offensively.

Personally, I think it's either try to change/insulate Sprong into something top-six viable, trade Hoglander, live with Hoglander on the top six (it's not optimal, but he can still do it), or expect Sprong to be in Tocchet's dog-house and used as a 13th forward, in my eyes. Using both on the fourth line isn't something I'd bother looking at.

Yeah, my bad. I think i read more than was there into:

You would have to completely give up on the Miller line being given high leverage defensive responsibilities if Sprong were on it,

Combined with some others comments around there, that weren't you.


But i do feel like that's a huge element to just sort of "blow off".

You did mention the idea of offloading more of those high leverage minutes to the Garland line. Which is fair...but i think the reality is, they're already there and you want more than one reliable "high leverage" line to make this roster work. Plus, ultimately, in critical games and moments, you want to be able to have your best in JT Bozo out there matching up against the opponents best. And Sprong pretty much singlehandedly makes that a non-starter proposition.
 

Shareefruck

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It's certainly debatable, and I'm certainly not suggesting it with any guarantees of success-- more of a potential moon-shot that I'm very intrigued by. If Sprong is only so-so on that line, it definitely isn't worth it, but if that's the stars-aligning deployment that legitimately makes everything click and suddenly gives you an extra first line caliber talent out of nowhere (which is a tall order, I know, but it's also exactly the kind of weird mystery box enigma that Sprong kind of is)? I'd want to at least seriously try it, to say the least.

Again, I also suspect that Heinen/Suter - Pettersson - DeBrusk can potentially function as a solid high leverage defensive line as well, personally. Provided that Pettersson is unhampered and back to his standards, he is arguably a Selke level defensive forward, in my opinion (one no longer dragged down by Hoglander/Kuzmenko's poor defensive play).
 

Shareefruck

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But i do feel like that's a huge element to just sort of "blow off".

You did mention the idea of offloading more of those high leverage minutes to the Garland line. Which is fair...but i think the reality is, they're already there and you want more than one reliable "high leverage" line to make this roster work. Plus, ultimately, in critical games and moments, you want to be able to have your best in JT Bozo out there matching up against the opponents best. And Sprong pretty much singlehandedly makes that a non-starter proposition.
It's certainly debatable, and I'm certainly not suggesting it with any guarantees of success-- more of a potential moon-shot that I'm very intrigued by. If Sprong is only so-so on that line, it definitely isn't worth it, but if that's the stars-aligning deployment that legitimately makes everything click and suddenly gives you an extra first line caliber talent out of nowhere (which is a tall order, I know, but it's also exactly the kind of weird mystery box enigma that Sprong kind of is)? I'd want to at least seriously try it, to say the least.

Again, I also suspect that Heinen/Suter - Pettersson - DeBrusk can potentially function as a solid high leverage defensive line as well, personally. Provided that Pettersson is unhampered and back to his standards, he is arguably a Selke level defensive forward, in my opinion (one no longer dragged down by Hoglander/Kuzmenko's poor defensive positioning).
 
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cc

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Potential pp line combos will be interesting. A lot of options there but not sure who would flourish

Based on scoring expectations
Pp1
Debrusk ep boeser
Miller Hughes

Pp2
Heinen joshua garland
Sprong hronek

I'd like to swap some of the personnel to balance out the lefties and righties..

Pp1
Garland EP boeser
Miller Hughes

Pp2
Sprong Joshua debrusk
Heinen hronek

The option exists to replace some of these guys with players like hogs and suter

Not as deadly as Edm pp but should be dangerous nonetheless. Should be much better than being forced to put mikhehyev and Lafferty there
 

DFAC

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I would also give Joshua a good long look with the top 2 lines and as the netfront presence on one of the PP units during the preseason. We know we can always fall back to Joshua/Garland wing pairing, but I would like to see if he can take another leap offensively.

I wonder if the team wants a physical presence on both the top 2 lines... could see Joshua and Sherwood both in the top 6.

Joshua - Miller - Boeser
Debrusk - Pettersson - Sherwood
Heinen - Suter - Garland
Hoglander - Bleuger - Sprong
Podz/Aman
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Potential pp line combos will be interesting. A lot of options there but not sure who would flourish

Based on scoring expectations
Pp1
Debrusk ep boeser
Miller Hughes

Pp2
Heinen joshua garland
Sprong hronek

I'd like to swap some of the personnel to balance out the lefties and righties..

Pp1
Garland EP boeser
Miller Hughes

Pp2
Sprong Joshua debrusk
Heinen hronek

The option exists to replace some of these guys with players like hogs and suter

Not as deadly as Edm pp but should be dangerous nonetheless. Should be much better than being forced to put mikhehyev and Lafferty there

I think the one real spot on that 1st Unit Powerplay is basically just looking for that "bumper" guy. A Horvat replacement that they haven't managed to find since. Kuz sorta fit a little bit, in a slightly different way. But that's the role they're probably looking to fill.

I'd imagine DeBrusk gets a very long look there, unless it's absolutely abundantly clear that he can't do it, or is getting in the way. And there's plenty of reason to think it might work. He's got that LH shot to provide a target for those little tap-back plays down low. Good size to hang in there and screen, speed to jump behind the net to keep those things alive, good hands and finish around the net and determination to bang in loose pucks. Really just a matter of whether he can process on their level, or gets in the way...as it's an important facilitator role that has to be really aware of everyone's positioning.


I'd reckon Heinen also gets a solid look there. Sprong too now, though he's a RH shot which isn't necessarily as ideal, if it's largely going to run through JT and Quin. Works better though if it runs more through Petey on that side.


And the 2nd Unit will probably continue to be a revolving door afterthought collection. Mostly anchored by Hronek. With Garland and Suter. Then a couple of whichever among Heinen/Sprong/Sherwood/Joshua/Hoggy/Podkolzin...or DeBrusk if he doesn't click on the 1st Unit. Depending who coaches want to reward or think might work any given night. And they'll probably only play like a third of the PP minutes at best. Huggy Bear probably even cuts into that further by lingering too.


But i wouldn't really worry too much about "balancing" handedness. Especially not on that 2nd Unit. But even on the 1st...they've only got the one RH shot, but that's all they really needed when it was humming along with Bo as a 4th Lefty. It's worked alright with a Right in Kuz too though. Just shifts a little bit of the looks they can work from.

Garland is really better off operating on that 2nd Unit anyway. He doesn't have a natural role on the Top Unit that makes any real sense. So i don't think the RH shot does much good there. Sprong's RH shot is probably the more useful righty if they want that sort of look.
 
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TruGr1t

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Interesting note from Drance and his chat with Tocchet. They intend to try using Boeser in the face off circle to see if it can offset the lack of a right-handed centre following Lindholm’s departure.

Tocchet also intends to fly over to Sweden to spend some 1-on-1 on-ice time with Pettersson ahead of camp.
 

Vector

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Interesting note from Drance and his chat with Tocchet. They intend to try using Boeser in the face off circle to see if it can offset the lack of a right-handed centre following Lindholm’s departure.

Tocchet also intends to fly over to Sweden to spend some 1-on-1 on-ice time with Pettersson ahead of camp.

Where does he say either of these? Because they aren't in The Athletic interview.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Interesting note from Drance and his chat with Tocchet. They intend to try using Boeser in the face off circle to see if it can offset the lack of a right-handed centre following Lindholm’s departure.

interesting… he does have good hands so maybe this could work. but is he strong enough physically to battle on the dot?

Tocchet also intends to fly over to Sweden to spend some 1-on-1 on-ice time with Pettersson ahead of camp.

wasn’t there a thing a year or two ago where we got in trouble for having the sedins at a summer open icetime for players? like, it violated some NHLPA rule about what constitutes a team practice, which you’re not allowed to have in the summer?

i wonder how this counts…
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Interesting note from Drance and his chat with Tocchet. They intend to try using Boeser in the face off circle to see if it can offset the lack of a right-handed centre following Lindholm’s departure.

Tocchet also intends to fly over to Sweden to spend some 1-on-1 on-ice time with Pettersson ahead of camp.

Neat. Just learned how Boeser is going to jack up his wrist again and relapse into ineffectuality when his shot goes away. :sarcasm:


Really though, it makes some sense i guess. Though i'm not really sure how effective that strategy will be. Whether Boeser is actually any good at faceoffs, and more importantly...what sort of faceoffs he might take. Because really...it's the high leverage defensive faceoffs, PK faceoffs, etc. where the lack of that natural RH Center probably hurts the most.
 
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cc

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Interesting note from Drance and his chat with Tocchet. They intend to try using Boeser in the face off circle to see if it can offset the lack of a right-handed centre following Lindholm’s departure.

Tocchet also intends to fly over to Sweden to spend some 1-on-1 on-ice time with Pettersson ahead of camp.

Maybe they should get all the right shot forwards some face off practice. There are only 4 of them. Who knows... maybe we'll discover Sprong is good at it
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Maybe they should get all the right shot forwards some face off practice. There are only 4 of them. Who knows... maybe we'll discover Sprong is good at it

Hey, get Giraffe in there too. Tyler Myers - Faceoff Specialist. Why not?
 
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LemonSauceD

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interesting… he does have good hands so maybe this could work. but is he strong enough physically to battle on the dot?



wasn’t there a thing a year or two ago where we got in trouble for having the sedins at a summer open icetime for players? like, it violated some NHLPA rule about what constitutes a team practice, which you’re not allowed to have in the summer?

i wonder how this counts…
I mean as long as you don’t self snitch *cough Benning erm*
 

Shareefruck

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The right-handed winger I was curious about being secretly good at face-offs was actually Garland-- very low center of gravity, great reflexes/anticipation, a masterful understanding of how to use leverage....

... But then I looked at his career stats and they're abysmal and far worse than Boeser's.
 

TruGr1t

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Neat. Just learned how Boeser is going to jack up his wrist again and relapse into ineffectuality when his shot goes away. :sarcasm:


Really though, it makes some sense i guess. Though i'm not really sure how effective that strategy will be. Whether Boeser is actually any good at faceoffs, and more importantly...what sort of faceoffs he might take. Because really...it's the high leverage defensive faceoffs, PK faceoffs, etc. where the lack of that natural RH Center probably hurts the most.

Boeser has not been historically used much in the dot ... something like 80 FOs in the past two seasons with a 42.7% win rate. He was better last year, though took just 25 FOs, at ~52%.

Pursuant to the above, Garland is even worse. He has taken just 24 FOs in the past two seasons and has an abysmal 21% win rate.

I can see why they would look at Boeser. Out of the right-handed shots available, he's taken by far the most draws and has a somewhat not-terrible win rate.

This will likely be an issue as outside of Miller and Blueger, we don't really have anyone above a 50% win rate in the dot.
 

Shareefruck

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Boeser has not been historically used much in the dot ... something like 80 FOs in the past two seasons with a 42.7% win rate. He was better last year, though took just 25 FOs, at ~52%.

Pursuant to the above, Garland is even worse. He has taken just 24 FOs in the past two seasons and has an abysmal 21% win rate.

I can see why they would look at Boeser. Out of the right-handed shots available, he's taken by far the most draws and has a somewhat not-terrible win rate.

This will likely be an issue as outside of Miller and Blueger, we don't really have anyone above a 50% win rate in the dot.
Surprisingly, despite his struggles, it kind of looks like Pettersson has finally improved to/past the 50% mark (in both the regular season and playoffs last season). He was previously always sub 45%. Nobody's really talked about it.
 

VanJack

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If the world unfolded the way it should, both Sasson and Raty would have improved so much that they'd be serious competition for the likes of Suter and Blueger. The reality, the Canucks could use more size and scoring down the middle.

But given the contractual situations, it's probable that both Raty and Sasson are in the minors again at the end of training camp. Can't really check up on it since Cap Friendly went down, but I believe both players are 'waiver exempt' for the coming season. This makes it even tougher for them to make it.
 

I Hart Conor Garland

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If the world unfolded the way it should, both Sasson and Raty would have improved so much that they'd be serious competition for the likes of Suter and Blueger. The reality, the Canucks could use more size and scoring down the middle.

But given the contractual situations, it's probable that both Raty and Sasson are in the minors again at the end of training camp. Can't really check up on it since Cap Friendly went down, but I believe both players are 'waiver exempt' for the coming season. This makes it even tougher for them to make it.
Does www.puckpedia.com not provide the info regarding waivers eligibility?
 

Nona Di Giuseppe

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Heinen-Miller-Boeser
DeBrusk-Pettersson-Hoglander
Joshua-Suter-Garland
Sherwood-Blueger-Sprong

The entire 4th line keeps the other guys competing (Hog, Heinen especially) I like this depth.

DeBrusk - Pettersson - Boeser
Joshua - Miller - Garland
Hoglander - Suter - Heinen
Podkolzin - Blueger - Sherwood
*Aman/PDG

Sprong ?
 

Russian_fanatic

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Jan 19, 2004
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What are our expectations for Raty? He had a solid season and his game is still growing. He's going to be 22 next November, so he needs to start showing he can play at the NHL level.
 

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