GDT: Canes vs Cats 1/18

[Lucky Lindy]

Win!

 

[Novacane]

Nice win!

 

[Tony1028]

Two point night!

 

[cptjeff]

I love pulling out close wins, especially when this team so often snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Unsustainable]

Feels good man.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

With that Skinner flash at the end if that's anyone but Ruutu it's a goal...

 

[Blueline Bomber]

With that Skinner flash at the end if that's anyone but Ruutu it's a goal...

He's screwed up so many Skinner passes. It's too bad.

 

[NorthStar4Canes]

Regardless of what JR was trying to do, he still sounded like a ****ing idiot. I think thats what a lot of people are getting at.

I don't think he sounded like an idiot at all. To me he sounded like a guy in charge of running a business who is unhappy with the performance of many of his most highly-paid employees. He sent the message pretty plainly without any rants or raving that depending what happens in the 2nd half of the season, everyone's job, including Muller's, will be evaluated this summer. It was also a pretty clear message as to expectations; to make the playoffs. Pretty simple, and a straightforward, obvious goal. This team should be in win mode, the money has been spent on guys like Semin, no player is being underpaid, yet there has been a lot of underachievement going on. Contained in the message of "underachievement" is the statement of confidence that yes, they do have the ability and skill to do so.

They went into this season with all that in place and added more. If a team of professional game-players, some of who are being paid real multi-millions to play it, can't motivate themselves to step it up, what do you expect the GM and business owner to do?

 

[Wild Caniac]

Thank you based Rutherford.

 

[TheOllieC]

I don't think he sounded like an idiot at all. To me he sounded like a guy in charge of running a business who is unhappy with the performance of many of his most highly-paid employees. He sent the message pretty plainly without any rants or raving that depending what happens in the 2nd half of the season, everyone's job, including Muller's, will be evaluated this summer. It was also a pretty clear message as to expectations; to make the playoffs. Pretty simple, and a straightforward, obvious goal. This team should be in win mode, the money has been spent on guys like Semin, no player is being underpaid, and there is a lot of underachievement going on.

They went into this season with all that in place and added more. If a team of professional game-players, some of who are being paid real multi-millions to play it, can't motivate themselves, what do you expect the GM and business owner to do?

It's not about the fact he's upset with Semin's production, he does need to produce more. It's how he went about saying the things solely about Semin, and no one else. Such as Eric, who constantly takes criticism on here for not caring or not being a leader. It was absolutely embarrassing for him to single out Alex who obviously doesn't need public criticisms like that, you have to leave that behind closed doors especially with someone like Semin. That's the **** that happened in Washington. It was just terribly selective by JR which resulted in making Semin look like the scapegoat...again. It may have helped motivate Alex a bit tonight, but it'll hurt the relationship between the two more in the long run. Sadly.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's not about the fact he's upset with Semin's production, he does need to produce more. It's how he went about saying the things solely about Semin, and no one else. Such as Eric, who constantly takes criticism on here for not caring or not being a leader. It was absolutely embarrassing for him to single out Alex who obviously doesn't need public criticisms like that, you have to leave that behind closed doors especially with someone like Semin. That's the **** that happened in Washington. It was just terribly selective by JR which resulted in making Semin look like the scapegoat...again. It may have helped motivate Alex a bit tonight, but it'll hurt the relationship between the two more in the long run. Sadly.

I agree that it was an ill-advised comment, but it wasn't selective. He was asked directly about Semin, not Eric.

 

[TheOllieC]

I agree that it was an ill-advised comment, but it wasn't selective. He was asked directly about Semin, not Eric.

Then don't go to that extent of shredding him while others are doing just as ****** or worse. Just how I see it I guess.

 

[NorthStar4Canes]

It's not about the fact he's upset with Semin's production, he does need to produce more. It's how he went about saying the things solely about Semin, and no one else. Such as Eric, who constantly takes criticism on here for not caring or not being a leader. It was absolutely embarrassing for him to single out Alex who obviously doesn't need public criticisms like that, you have to leave that behind closed doors especially with someone like Semin. That's the **** that happened in Washington. It was just terribly selective by JR which resulted in making Semin look like the scapegoat...again. It may have helped motivate Alex a bit tonight, but it'll hurt the relationship between the two more in the long run. Sadly.

He wasn't scapegoating any one person, let alone Semin. A scapegoat takes the blame for the failure of all, not just their own, and JR certainly did not do that. He talked about other players as well, and he was being asked specific player names. Staal wears the C and therefore it's a given that motivational problems of not only himself but also of everyone else in part lies with him. Staal's underperformance issue is flogging a dead horse. Same with Muller, he refused to answer questions about him except to talk about the summer and let's see when the season is over. That does NOT rule him out for getting the sack. On the contrary, read between the lines, the players surely can.

On the subject of Semin, he was hired to do a job, and that job was to play on Staal's wing and to score. That's the only thing JR said about Semin and fact that he' not played up to expectations is clearly evident. Thats the bottom line and Semin is being paid adult money to be a scorer. If it takes stating the obvious in an interview to get attention and light a fire under assess, good for him.

Relationships take 2 people to make it work, business or otherwise, and there's not getting around the fact that in the end the Carolina Hurricanes are a business. Both parties have to hold up their end of the bargain. I have to say that many on here would be hard put to use the tact JR does in going down the critiquing road for the purpose of serving notice on everyone if it were their own money invested in the business and game. Armchair generaling with nothing at stake at its finest. The only chance to make money is to make the playoffs, and that money has been invested to make them now, and like it or not, Semin represents a large part of that investment. I don't think it does Semin any harm to treat him like a highly-paid adult.

 

[HisIceness]

I'm just glad we won.

My bad on the GDT guys. I ****ed up. Completely slipped my mind.

Hmm, so CMP ****s up on GDT duty, Canes win, and Semin scores 2 goals.

We might be onto something.

 

[tomdundo]

My bad on the GDT guys. I ****ed up. Completely slipped my mind.

No big deal. It happens. I'm just giving the W to Wild Caniac in the GDT thread.

I didn't even notice there wasn't a GDT (was at a conference) until I posted mine real quick a couple minutes after Wild Caniac did.

 

[What the Faulk]

Semin playing as well as he has tonight is amusing. What's more amusing is people using it as evidence that JR was wrong. Are you really that clueless?

Are you?

Does JR even know what a "north/south" game means, or are they just buzz words he's heard Muller say a few times? I know "advanced" stats are tough for some people (shot attempts, WHAT DO THEY MEAN?) but let's put it simply: you rack up the attempts means you're possessing the puck in the offensive zone. Semin does that better than anybody on the team except Skinner, which is kind of hard to do if you're playing an "east/west" game. He averages just over 7 attempts a game, and tonight he had 12. That's not even his most in the last two weeks -- he had 17 against Montreal on NYE.

The difference tonight is that his shots fell. That's it. He played the same game he has been all year, but this time he got the bounces.

 

[Moosetache]

Carolina Hurricanes ‏@Canes_Gameday 1m
That goal ends the #Canes goalless drought at about 145 minutes, still 35 minutes shorter than "The Wolf of Wall Street."

Said the F word about the same amount of times though.....

 

[Joe McGrath]

Are you?

I know "advanced" stats are tough for some people (shot attempts, WHAT DO THEY MEAN?) but let's put it simply: you rack up the attempts means you're possessing the puck in the offensive zone. Semin does that better than anybody on the team except Skinner, which is kind of hard to do if you're playing an "east/west" game. He averages just over 7 attempts a game, and tonight he had 12. That's not even his most in the last two weeks -- he had 17 against Montreal on NYE.

The difference tonight is that his shots fell. That's it. He played the same game he has been all year, but this time he got the bounces.

You keep bringing up the advanced stats I'm really not sure why. Do you think he's paid $7million dollars to attempt shots, or to bury shots? I'm not entirely sure how many different ways to explain that you still need to score goals to win hockey games. That's still the point of the game no matter how much possession time you have or shots attempted there are.

I do not understand advanced stats fully so let me clear something up about shot attempts. Does that include shots that miss the net and are blocked?

 

[What the Faulk]

They do. They count all attempts at scoring. He's missing more, and more are blocked, but his SOGs are only down 0.5 per game, which still puts him second on the team. The offensive game is there, but the results aren't.

Based on his SOG totals this year and a career shooting percentage of 13.1%, he's expected to have 14 goals at this point. It's below expectations, but not completely bottoming out worth being publicly called out for. Bounces can mean the difference, and some fortunate ones in the next few games can put him right back on track.

He's not perfect. Passes are going into skates and assists are down because guys like Tlusty aren't finishing chances this year. But that's true of a lot of players on the team. Staal and Semin are getting paid the exact same dollars per goal so far this year, and one has played 9 fewer games.

Semin is just an easy guy to pick on, and that seems unfair to me. His season hasn't been awful.

 

[Joe McGrath]

This is all 5 on 5 as well right?

In any case you bring up some good points about no one finishing for him this year on his passes. He really didn't have a great shooting year last year either but it was obscured by how insane he was play making.

 

[Clark Gillies]

He's screwed up so many Skinner passes. It's too bad.

I don't know what you are talking about. According to many of the experts here, Skinner is incapable of passing

 

[Joe McGrath]

I don't know what you are talking about. According to many of the experts here, Skinner is incapable of passing

For the record, I don't think Skinner is a bad passer. I think he chooses to make ill advised passes more often that he makes the right one, specifically on the PP.

 

[What the Faulk]

Most (if not all) advanced stats are looked at under the scope of 5v5. I typically leave it at all 5v5 situations, but some narrow it further to "close", which is 5v5 in one-score or tied games. The reasoning for this is that usage and performance differ in blowouts, but I still think they are worth factoring in.

The key to advanced stats is possession. On special teams, the goal for the PK is to just clear the puck, not necessarily to pile up attempts, so there's a lot of time when no one is possessing the puck. This can lead to skewed results of sorts, and be tough to draw meaningful conclusions from.

Also it should be noted that advanced stats mean more than just attempts. Zone starts, quality of competition, etc can further break down a game. A good corsi (attempts) player and a great corsi player can essentially be the same if one is starting all his shifts in the offensive zone and one in the defensive zone.

Take Jordan Staal for example. His corsi is pretty good, indicating he's controlling play (possessing the puck more) than the other team. But quite a few players do that. Then look further. He does that while starting most of his shifts in the defensive zone while going against the toughest matchups the other team has to offer, and still manages to outshoot them. Semin does the same against even tougher competition.

I realize that Semin is paid to score, but it's not as if he's been a liability out there by any means. The ice is tilted towards the offensive zone when he's out there, more so than any other member of the Hurricanes.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Most (if not all) advanced stats are looked at under the scope of 5v5. I typically leave it at all 5v5 situations, but some narrow it further to "close", which is 5v5 in one-score or tied games. The reasoning for this is that usage and performance differ in blowouts, but I still think they are worth factoring in.

The key to advanced stats is possession. On special teams, the goal for the PK is to just clear the puck, not necessarily to pile up attempts, so there's a lot of time when no one is possessing the puck. This can lead to skewed results of sorts, and be tough to draw meaningful conclusions from.

Also it should be noted that advanced stats mean more than just attempts. Zone starts, quality of competition, etc can further break down a game. A good corsi (attempts) player and a great corsi player can essentially be the same if one is starting all his shifts in the offensive zone and one in the defensive zone.

Take Jordan Staal for example. His corsi is pretty good, indicating he's controlling play (possessing the puck more) than the other team. But quite a few players do that. Then look further. He does that while starting most of his shifts in the defensive zone while going against the toughest matchups the other team has to offer, and still manages to outshoot them. Semin does the same against even tougher competition.

I realize that Semin is paid to score, but it's not as if he's been a liability out there by any means. The ice is tilted towards the offensive zone when he's out there, more so than any other member of the Hurricanes.

I would agree, he hasn't been a liability at all. The Canes have enough of those now and in the past for me to recognize who those folks are.

 

[What the Faulk]

One last bit before I sign off for the game, and I'll copy paste this to the other thread:

I'd really recommend reading this article on Shutdown Line that articulates a little better what I'm trying to say. Corey does an excellent job of using a numbers-heavy approach, but presents it a way that's easy to understand. His whole site is excellent, and it's Canes-centric. If you have any interest in advanced stats, I'd really suggest perusing it.