Confirmed with Link: Canadiens Will Pick 5th (Hughes Presser in OP) NO POLITICS

[ReHabs]

I'm far from a prospect expert, but i'm really hoping one of the /Ducks/Blue Jackets/Sharks end up taking Michkov and we don't have to make that call because i'm not sure it's as much of a no-brainer as you're making it.

This doesn’t make sense to me. If one of the clubs ahead of us picks Michkov then it makes the call even more obvious.

 

[JianYang]

No but they coexisted with the boomers and the boomers' parents who had seen it all and told stories. Plus they saw the legends being celebrated in ceremonies while they were still alive.

The next generation won't even have that.

Yeah, anyone old enough to remember 86 is the last one to remember the Habs glory. If they remember 86, it likely means they remember the 89 team tying for first overall and going to the finals, and it means they remember 93 too. Thats a pretty decent run in itself.

It would then take another 9 years just to win a playoff round.

 

[ReHabs]

Oh, I'm 100% with you. I just hope management doesn't try to galaxy brain this. I just got to hope though if they skip on Michkov or Smith that it's because their scouts have truly identified something we're not seeing or aware of.

I don’t trust the Habs organization going rogue at the draft table and seeing things other teams and people don’t see. That’s them galaxy braining it, to a tee.

 

[417]

This doesn’t make sense to me. If one of the clubs ahead of us picks Michkov then it makes the call even more obvious.

What i'm saying is that I hope one of the 3 teams ahead of the Habs picks Michkov, so that they Habs don't have to make that decision.

IMO, if Bedard, Fantilli, Smith & Carlsson go...

I don't think picking Michkov is as much of a no-brainer as most think. It's actually a very difficult call given all of the context and circumstances surrounding him as a draft prospect. Not to mention the context surrounding the Habs own 1st overall pick the year prior, also being more of a long term prospect.

I'd just rather hope another team take that burden away.

 

[ottawa]

.......As a complimentary player. Huge difference. How many pts did he get in the SC final against a grizzled playoff veteren team? One of the reasons we made it as far as we did was bc of Corey Perry.. end of.

He had 3 assists in the 8 goals we scored against Tampa...what more do you want lol. He was one of our best players in that series but everyone sucked along with him. Habs were simply outmatched because Tampa was that good.

Corey perry had 1 goal in the 8 goals.

 

[themilosh]

Why are you making so much sense?

Caufield obviously should sign whatever is proposed to him without a doubt and sign QUICK! because you know, that means he doesn’t want to play here if he doesn’t take the first contract proposed to him without negociation and he should be traded. Him not being signed may 26th is a tragedy.

I love the habs as does everyone in here.. we all just have different preferences on how to build the team.
But I've had enough of the "p-tit gar" pocket rocket obsession. There is no doubt CC is a fantastic player and dynamic scorer, but he lacks the physical presence to harbour the rigors of playoff hockey.
My only goal is to see the CH hoist a cup again. I've celebrated 2 in 86 93, was a tad too young in late 70s to understand the others.
With the exception of Patrick Kane, ive yet to see a small guy lead a team to a cup in over 40 years (as a top paid player), and i think paying CC anything more than 6x8 is a mistake. Theres a fine line btw asset/cap management, anything over 6 is a liability, anything under is an asset.

He had 3 assists in the 8 goals we scored against Tampa...what more do you want lol

Im not arguing against CC the player. Im arguing against making him the "key" to our offense. Way too easy to defend against in playoffs.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bc a soft 50 goal regular season perimeter scorer means nothing in the playoffs if they have no room in tight checking games.

Lafleur was a 'soft' player, so was Bossy so was Hull.... they scored just fine in the playoffs. True snipers usually find a way. And CC has already produced well in the playoffs for us as a raw rookie when given a chance.

CC hasn't even lasted through the rigors of the regular season,

He had an idiot coach. The moment he was given a chance he paced for close to 50 goals. And he's had ONE injury. You're talking like he's injury prone. He's not.

on a team with no expectations and now is in a holdout pattern for a huge contract?

We have no idea what's been offered... you have no idea what's going on here. Nobody does.

He's simply too small.

He's heard that his whole life and broke scoring records.

And opposing teams will eat him alive. We have had 30 years of small forwards and they dont last. Val bure, ribero, oleg petrov, saku, samsonov, gionta, gomez, Cammalleri, desharnais, etc...

We had 30 years of MEDIOCRE forwards. You just listed off a bunch of shitty players. The only sniper there was Cammaleri and he was amazing in the playoffs. Seriously - Valeri Bure is not in the same postal code as CC is. Why the hell would you list him?

It's insane to think CC will be different.

It's insane to compare CC to guys like Petrov, Desharnais and then think they're the same player...

Look at the remaining teams - not one has a small player leading them.. his value to this team is as a complimentary player (nothing more) an asset in the group, but if we are going to pay big bucks on him we are locking ourselves in for continued futility..

Who gives a shit? Seriously man... I don't care what size he is. You don't want a team of smurfs but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to turn away a guy with elite talent. Imagine if Tampa felt that way about St Louis...

He should sign a reasonable contract at $5.5m aav, he'll be rich for life. But at least this will allow hugo to build big and fast around him, so he can actually play.

There's no way on God's green earth that 5.5 is "reasonable" for his skill set. None.

Thank god hugo isn't buckling. He will be traded. Mark my words.. some other team will blindly throw $10m his way, just like pipsqueek johnny hockey or playoff warrior debrincat.. interesting how Tkachuck is twice the player in playoffs now..

Again, you have no idea what's going on there. Please don't pretend that you do.

 

[rik schau]

You guys are depressing af

Considering the alternative perceptions,that sounds rather flattering. lol.

 

[themilosh]

He had one injury and it was sustained prior to the season. He had no issues the year before, but that is legitimately the only major injury he's had.. ever?

And he's not in a hold out pattern for a large contract. The contract negotiations are difficult because he burned his 1st year ELC, his 2nd year he was neutered by Ducharme and then dynamic with MSL. This year, he was incredible again, but had the shoulder injury and surgery. So he doesn't have a full year of production to put on the table and say I'm worth this vs. this comparable. So the dance is between both club and player. Predictably the Canadiens want to lock Caufield up at a good contract at long term, while Caufield may be pushing for a bridge deal because he could make more if he puts up a full season at last year's pace.

Kirby Dach took awhile to hammer out and he didn't get overpaid and we ended up getting good term and good money, a win-win.

As for the rest, it's just bad and you are rightfully being panned for it.

He also got clocked on an innocuous hit in the rare time he crashed the net, regular season, concussion protocol. He's now missed half a season with a shoulder injury in less than 2 years. DD was brutal, but he went cold for what 40 games with like 1 goal??
These are serious red flags. We cant tie up top dollar on inconsistencies, especially a player whos only job is to score.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He also got clocked on an innocuous hit in the rare time he crashed the net, regular season, concussion protocol. He's now missed half a season with a shoulder injury in less than 2 years. DD was brutal, but he went cold for what 40 games with like 1 goal??
These are serious red flags. We cant tie up top dollar on inconsistencies, especially a player whos only job is to score.

Josh Anderson broke his f***ing leg crashing the net, he also had the same shoulder surgery as Caufield.

Can't win with big players who crash the net.

 

[417]

He also got clocked on an innocuous hit in the rare time he crashed the net, regular season, concussion protocol. He's now missed half a season with a shoulder injury in less than 2 years. DD was brutal, but he went cold for what 40 games with like 1 goal??
These are serious red flags. We cant tie up top dollar on inconsistencies, especially a player whos only job is to score.

And Eric Lindros got his career cut short when he was repeatedly clocked, despite being 6'4 and 245lbs.

 

[themilosh]

Lafleur was a 'soft' player, so was Bossy so was Hull.... they scored just fine in the playoffs. True snipers usually find a way. And CC has already produced well in the playoffs for us as a raw rookie when given a chance.

He had an idiot coach. The moment he was given a chance he paced for close to 50 goals. And he's had ONE injury. You're talking like he's injury prone. He's not.

We have no idea what's been offered... you have no idea what's going on here. Nobody does.

He's heard that his whole life and broke scoring records.

We had 30 years of MEDIOCRE forwards. You just listed off a bunch of shitty players. The only sniper there was Cammaleri and he was amazing in the playoffs. Seriously - Valeri Bure is not in the same postal code as CC is. Why the hell would you list him?

It's insane to compare CC to guys like Petrov, Desharnais and then think they're the same player...

Who gives a shit? Seriously man... I don't care what size he is. You don't want a team of smurfs but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to turn away a guy with elite talent. Imagine if Tampa felt that way about St Louis...

There's no way on God's green earth that 5.5 is "reasonable" for his skill set. None.

Again, you have no idea what's going on there. Please don't pretend that you do.

I respect your replies... but i'm not speaking as a fan. Im just too old for that.. i love players as a fan of the team, but in a hard Cap era, everything needs to be considered.
So many teams make this mistake, only to find themselves handcuffed, often signed by desperate GMs..

Now, if the market can't return equal asset value for CC, then i can see the AAV inch up to 6.5/yr x 8. beyond that id sign him to a 4 year bridge at 4m like Dach.

 

[themilosh]

And Eric Lindros got his career cut short when he was repeatedly clocked, despite being 6'4 and 245lbs.

Ffs guys, Eric Lindros was an absolute beast and a pleasure to watch.. he was the victim of headhunter Stevens, of whom would be suspended for 40 games for that type of play today. If CC got hit with the same veracity as Lindros i honestly think he'd be a paraplegic

 

[OnTheRun]

I love the habs as does everyone in here.. we all just have different preferences on how to build the team.
But I've had enough of the "p-tit gar" pocket rocket obsession. There is no doubt CC is a fantastic player and dynamic scorer, but he lacks the physical presence to harbour the rigors of playoff hockey.
My only goal is to see the CH hoist a cup again. I've celebrated 2 in 86 93, was a tad too young in late 70s to understand the others.
With the exception of Patrick Kane, ive yet to see a small guy lead a team to a cup in over 40 years (as a top paid player), and i think paying CC anything more than 6x8 is a mistake. Theres a fine line btw asset/cap management, anything over 6 is a liability, anything under is an asset.


Im not arguing against CC the player. Im arguing against making him the "key" to our offense. Way too easy to defend against in playoffs.

If $6M 8 years is what he have on table no one can blame the guy for wanting a bridge. He's worth more than that and he know it, he just didn't had enough time to prove it yet.

 

[417]

I respect your replies... but i'm not speaking as a fan. Im just too old for that.. i love players as a fan of the team, but in a hard Cap era, everything needs to be considered.
So many teams make this mistake, only to find themselves handcuffed, often signed by desperate GMs..

Now, if the market can't return equal asset value for CC, then i can see the AAV inch up to 6.5/yr x 8. beyond that id sign him to a 4 year bridge at 4m like Dach.

The market dictates he should get much more than that on a 8 years term.

 

[SlafySZN]

He also got clocked on an innocuous hit in the rare time he crashed the net, regular season, concussion protocol. He's now missed half a season with a shoulder injury in less than 2 years. DD was brutal, but he went cold for what 40 games with like 1 goal??
These are serious red flags. We cant tie up top dollar on inconsistencies, especially a player whos only job is to score.

He is the most consistent player on the team.

And no, he didn’t get ‘’clocked’’ while crashing the net. It was a strange collision in his own end while completing a defensive play.

No, he won’t make 6.5x8, and absolutely NOT 4m for 4 years lol.

 

[417]

Ffs guys, Eric Lindros was an absolute beast and a pleasure to watch.. he was the victim of headhunter Stevens, of whom would be suspended for 40 games for that type of play today.

Ok, and?

Don't like that example?

Ok...our very own Alexander Perezhogin finished Keith Primeau’s career with a hit despite Primeau being 6’5 and about 240lbs.

Big or tall...its a contact sport, guys get hurt.

Of course, doesn't mean you build a team full of surfs but not sure there's any kind of trend or correlation that's applicable with Caufield right now.

 

[JoelWarlord]

If they pass on Michkov it won't be for "going rogue" or "galaxy brain" reasons. Nobody questions his talent and it's obvious that anyone passing on him is doing it because of concerns with the contract and political situation. You can scoff if you want and based on what we know publicly I would 100% take Michkov at 5 if I were the guy making the call, but by definition for Michkov to even get to us in the first place would require a team ahead of us to ostensibly "go rogue" and pick Smith ahead of him.

They will almost certainly take Smith if he's there at 5. If he's gone and they decide Michkov is a DND and move on to the next guy on the list, it's hard for me to really call that "galaxy brain". Is it more cautious than I would like? Sure. But Michkov wouldn't even be available to us at 5 in the first place if the pick was a no brainer.

Reinbacher at 5 would be so disappointing. Trade down. You can get him at 8-10.

He won't be there at 8-10. Arizona or Philly will absolutely take him at 6 or 7.

With the exception of Patrick Kane, ive yet to see a small guy lead a team to a cup in over 40 years (as a top paid player), and i think paying CC anything more than 6x8 is a mistake. Theres a fine line btw asset/cap management, anything over 6 is a liability, anything under is an asset.

Martin St. Louis? Phil Kessel as well, not as small as Caufield but we're definitely not going to pretend that he's some imposing physical specimen. Marchand wasn't a key player for the Bruins when they won but they've been to the final with him as a star as well. I just don't really see the concern, particularly because Caufield is a sniper, snipers don't need to "lead" their teams and muck and grind, they need to score goals. We will have other players do the gritty stuff. It just seems completely arbitrary to trade away a 5'7 sniper because other teams haven't won with 5'7 players even though plenty have won with butter soft 5'11 forwards that don't play physical whatsoever.

6M or 6.5M for Caufield on a deal longer than 2-3 years is an absolute fantasy world, it is never happening. I said this in the other thread but our fanbase is going to have to accept the fact that the price for first-line forwards starts around 7M now. Mike Cammalleri got 6M in 2009-10 under a 56.8M cap, which is the equivalent of 8.82M under next year's projected 83.5M cap. These kinds of players cost money and the reason we've come to accept our top 6 forwards making between 4-6M for the past 15 years is because we haven't had any good ones excluding Pacioretty who signed a ridiculous bargain contract. The idea just makes no sense, Caufield is not accepting a long term deal that pays him 750k more than Josh Anderson.

 

[417]

If $6M 8 years is what he have on table no one can blame the guy for wanting a bridge. He's worth more than that and he know it, he just didn't had enough time to prove it yet.

Hughes has an agent background.

There's ZERO chance a deal that insulting (speaking relatively of course) is on the table for Caufield over 8 years.

 

[26Mats]

If they pass on Michkov it won't be for "going rogue" or "galaxy brain" reasons. Nobody questions his talent and it's obvious that anyone passing on him is doing it because of concerns with the contract and political situation. By definition, for Michkov to even get to us in the first place would require a team ahead of us to ostensibly "go rogue" and pick Smith ahead of him.

They will almost certainly take Smith if he's there at 5. If he's gone and they decide Michkov is a DND and move on to the next guy on the list it's hard for me to really call that "galaxy brain". More cautious than I would like? Sure. But Michkov wouldn't even be available to us at 5 if the pick was a no brainer anyway.

He won't be there at 8-10. Arizona or Philly will absolutely take him at 6 or 7.


Martin St. Louis? Phil Kessel as well, not as small as Caufield but we're definitely not going to pretend that he's some imposing physical specimen. Marchand wasn't a key player for the Bruins when they won but they've been to the final with him as a star as well. I just don't really see the concern, particularly because Caufield is a sniper, snipers don't need to "lead" their teams and muck and grind, they need to score goals. We will have other players do the gritty stuff. It just seems completely arbitrary to trade away a 5'7 sniper because other teams haven't won with 5'7 players even though plenty have won with butter soft 5'11 forwards that don't play physical whatsoever.

6M or 6.5M for Caufield on a deal longer than 2-3 years is an absolute fantasy world, it is never happening. I said this in the other thread but our fanbase is going to have to accept the fact that the price for first-line forwards starts around 7M now. Mike Cammalleri got 6M in 2009-10 under a 56.8M cap, which is the equivalent of 8.82M under next year's projected 83.5M cap. These kinds of players cost money and the reason we've come to accept our top 6 forwards making between 4-6M for the past 15 years is because we haven't had any good ones excluding Pacioretty who signed a ridiculous bargain contract. The idea just makes no sense, Caufield is not accepting a long term deal that pays him 750k more than Josh Anderson.

Columbus are drafting a center. It's possible they prefer Smith to Carlsson. So that's another way we could get Michkov, as San Jose would probably take Carlsson at 4.

But yeah, it likely comes down to San Jose's decision at 4: Michkov or Smith.

 

[417]

If they pass on Michkov it won't be for "going rogue" or "galaxy brain" reasons. Nobody questions his talent and it's obvious that anyone passing on him is doing it because of concerns with the contract and political situation. You can scoff if you want and based on what we know publicly I would 100% take Michkov at 5 if I were the guy making the call, but by definition for Michkov to even get to us in the first place would require a team ahead of us to ostensibly "go rogue" and pick Smith ahead of him.

They will almost certainly take Smith if he's there at 5. If he's gone and they decide Michkov is a DND and move on to the next guy on the list, it's hard for me to really call that "galaxy brain". Is it more cautious than I would like? Sure. But Michkov wouldn't even be available to us at 5 in the first place if the pick was a no brainer.

He won't be there at 8-10. Arizona or Philly will absolutely take him at 6 or 7.


Martin St. Louis? Phil Kessel as well, not as small as Caufield but we're definitely not going to pretend that he's some imposing physical specimen. Marchand wasn't a key player for the Bruins when they won but they've been to the final with him as a star as well. I just don't really see the concern, particularly because Caufield is a sniper, snipers don't need to "lead" their teams and muck and grind, they need to score goals. We will have other players do the gritty stuff. It just seems completely arbitrary to trade away a 5'7 sniper because other teams haven't won with 5'7 players even though plenty have won with butter soft 5'11 forwards that don't play physical whatsoever.

6M or 6.5M for Caufield on a deal longer than 2-3 years is an absolute fantasy world, it is never happening. I said this in the other thread but our fanbase is going to have to accept the fact that the price for first-line forwards starts around 7M now. Mike Cammalleri got 6M in 2009-10 under a 56.8M cap, which is the equivalent of 8.82M under next year's projected 83.5M cap. These kinds of players cost money and the reason we've come to accept our top 6 forwards making between 4-6M for the past 15 years is because we haven't had any good ones excluding Pacioretty who signed a ridiculous bargain contract. The idea just makes no sense, Caufield is not accepting a long term deal that pays him 750k more than Josh Anderson.

I said in the Caufield thread months ago.

On 8 years, Caufield ain't signing for less than 8M/yr.

Unless of course he has some weird desire to use Nick Suzuki’s contract as his salary cap, as opposed to the league revenues that determine the actual salary cap.

 

[No More Subban]

You hit the nail on the head. He was disappointed because he was all hands on deck with Wright. The same player who has been healthy scratched recently in AHL playoffs because of his performance not long after another poor OHL playoff performance.

If we pass on Michkov, I'll trust that the people with far better insight of the situation than us have done their due diligence.

thats basically where i'm at right now. i'm not a fan of smith but if they end up picking him, then i'll be okay with it.

*still praying for michkov, carlsson or benson

 

[NORiculous]

The Habs have a pressing need at RHD

The Habs have Savard for 2 years but let’s say they trade him.

Barron, Guhle, Harris, Kovacevik, Mailloux, can all play on the right… can’t they?

 

[OnTheRun]

Hughes has an agent background.

There's ZERO chance a deal that insulting (speaking relatively of course) is on the table for Caufield over 8 years.

Oh I wasn't alluding to the Habs real offer.

It was strictly about the scenario where a fan decide a player is worth X*Y and get mad at the possibility of the player refusing such a "reasonable" offer and forcing a bridge a deal on the team. This scenario reached the point where CC need to be moved asap.

 

[Kennerback]

I don’t trust the Habs organization going rogue at the draft table and seeing things other teams and people don’t see. That’s them galaxy braining it, to a tee.

They could go perhaps Leonard if they’re absolutely sure he’s can’t miss and will absolutely hit his peak. 100% grand slam and we’re the only ones to see it. But I don’t think they can.

And Yes, Dvorsky and Reinbacher project in a contributing roster player one day. But it’s basically abuse of the proverbial saying « a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush » to a farcical level.