Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Burke's Evil Spirit said:
Mayhaps it has something to do with his strong showings for Canada at both the 2003 and 2004 WHC?
~Canucklehead~
Canadian World Cup roster announced
- Thread starter Yes Im Peter Ing
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Mayhaps it has something to do with his strong showings for Canada at both the 2003 and 2004 WHC?
~Canucklehead~
Leaf Lander
Registered User
Hossa said:
OMG Gagne only scored 24 goals playing with Primeau and Brashear this year, what a disgrace, he's obviously lost his scoring touch.
You never see him play, I can tell, He is one of the best two way players in the game and had great chemistry with Sakic on Iginla, If Gagne was on a scoring line or on a different team, he would have 80 points easily, he plays in all situations, PP,PK etc.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Gilmour's Way said:
Check out the "International Grind Line" topic. Doan, Maltby and Draper are an effective two-way line. Doan isn't a bad choice for Team Canada at all, IMO.
~Canucklehead~
Know your facts before you speak.Burke's Evil Spirit said:
He was sent down to the AHL after he recovered from his injuries. It was just to test him out.
After his foot injury he played one game with the Panthers and was sent down. His other stint on the farm had nothing to do with injuries. He was also a healthy scratch.
I know, but I think that he has already proven that he can compete with the big boys. He will be great in the future, and it's only a matter of time.Burke's Evil Spirit said:
Enoch
This is my boomstick
Vlad The Impaler said:
I completely agree.
BES, I believe Jay Bo. was demoted b/c he was just getting back off a serious injury, and they wanted him to work back into his groove (they rushed him to get back in the lineup as well).
Calm down Vlad...
You've gotta relax Vlad.... Like you said in the earlier post, Canada is super deep, so there are going to be guys you would prefer to see.
But, I think that we should look at this team with the following in mind:
The players that have been selected, do they deserve a spot? Virtually all are a yes, definately. Followed by, although I would prefer to see Player X there...
Which is a fair assessment, again given the depth in Canada.
Goalies, we're all fine with the choices. Only other guy to get consideration was Theo, but those soft goals against the Bruins might have doomed him. As for Luongo, I don't expect to see him play a game. It's all Brodeur, barring injury, at which time, we'll see the Eagle.
Defense: As expected all but MacInnis return. Brewer was the only guy on the bubble, but with Kevin Lowe in the braintrust, he was going to return.
As for the 2 additions, Redden just missed the SLC team and so was a natural. Dependable guy. Someone to fill in for the likes of Brewer, Jovo, Nieds. Blake.
Regehr, is a more physical dman, which is insurance for Foote, Pronger, Blake, and Jovo.
All I can say is that I might have prefered 1 offensive and 1 defensive spare blueliner to replace one of the SLC 6 if they happen to go down. I believe that Stuart's offensive game is better than that of Redden. But, I have no issues with the selection of the 8 dmen.
As for JBo, the kid is still young, only 2 years of NHL exp. If he was on the team, it would be soley as the spare 8 dmen role.
For McCabe, I'm sure Quinn was fighting for his inclusion as was Martin for Redden. Probably the fact that Redden and Regehr appear more calm might have been a deciding factor. As from the roster, no one is too emotional out there.
As for the forwards, well that was the area that change was to be plentiful.
The for sure returnees were Lemieux (appears to be healthy by the tournament), Sakic and Iginla.
The ones on the bubble that made it Yzerman, Smyth, and Gagne. each deserve to go. Yzerman is going to drop down to a 3/4 line role to bring checking, defense and leadership. Nothing wrong with that selection.
Ryan Smyth, is not the most talented player available, but you know what Vlad, he above any of the final few guys deserves to be there the most. Simply by his 50 WC games for Canada. How many other top players decline each year? Not Ryan, he's always there to answer the bell. Even in 2002, after ankle surgery, I would have thought he would finally say "NO", but instead he went over and suited up. He is a heart and soul kind of guy. And you need that. Even if he is only a spare forward, he belongs in a Canadian sweater.
Gagne, hasn't stepped up following the SLC games. Injuries have held him back last season. But, what he does bring is the versitility and ability to play in all 3 situations. He can be moved down to a checking line or up to a scoring line if needed. Something Canada needs.
The Bubble players that were cut Kariya and Peca. PK had injuries this year, but the play of another smallish forward, St. Louis, leading NHL scorer and dangerous SH scorer made PK expendable. MP, sucks that the blown knee by Tucker killed the 02-03 year for him. But, it appears that Draper is taking his spot, so no loss there, aside from the monster hits that Peca can dish out.
SLC guys who were not going to return for sure were Nolan, Shanahan, Fleury, Lindros, Nieuwendyk. All due to injuries and age. No surprising omissions there.
As for the 7 new faces that take their spots and the additional 2 spares:
Heatley, great young talent who had a monster WC. Easily takes a PF spot on the team.
Thornton, just missed the SLC team, so was a natural to make it.
Doan, played great this year for Phoenix and was their best player. Smaller ice fits his game and a strong WC, not to mention his owner Wayne made him one of the final roster players. Again, good in all 3 situations.
Marleau, great young player. Speed and the ability to play centre and wing adds flexibility to the team.
Richards, ok, one of the tougher choices, but over the past few years he's played better than Lecavalier. Was a tough choice, but I can understand why they opted for Richards. Again, probably like McCabe, keeping emotions in check might have played a role.
Morrow, well definately a gritty 2 way guy. If this was the larger ice surface, he still might have made it. Young player on the rise. Solid selection, given that he was to replace a Nolan, Lindros, Shanny role on the checking line.
Maltby, definately the most debated selected. Ahead of Primeau and others, yeah, it was an eye catcher. Probably the chemistry he has with Draper landed him on the roster. Then again, he might not play, one of the 3 spare forwards.
The final roster, we can say that Theodore will sit for the goalies. Redden and Regehr will likely sit for the D. Maybe Brewer will sit. The other 5 are pretty safe bets to play every meaningful game.
Forwards, Lemieux, Sakic, Iginla, Yzerman, Thornton, Draper, Heatley, St. Louis, and Gagne will likely see every meaningful game. Final 6 guys, I would say IMO, that Smyth, Doan and Morrow will play the key games. Leaving Maltby, Marleau, and Richards as the spares.
As from this roster, all I can say is that I'm a tad surprised that Canada did not load up on size. With the omission of Primeau, Nash, Murray, Lecavalier, and Bertuzzi up front, Canada would be tough to move down low.
But, this roster also highlights the difference between the NHL vs. International game. More "pure grinders" are here than in SLC. Peca was the only pure grinder, but this team now has 3 of them in Draper, Morrow, and Maltby.
Regardless of who is on or off the team, Let's go CANADA should be the sentiment in September!
Vlad The Impaler said:
You've gotta relax Vlad.... Like you said in the earlier post, Canada is super deep, so there are going to be guys you would prefer to see.
But, I think that we should look at this team with the following in mind:
The players that have been selected, do they deserve a spot? Virtually all are a yes, definately. Followed by, although I would prefer to see Player X there...
Which is a fair assessment, again given the depth in Canada.
Goalies, we're all fine with the choices. Only other guy to get consideration was Theo, but those soft goals against the Bruins might have doomed him. As for Luongo, I don't expect to see him play a game. It's all Brodeur, barring injury, at which time, we'll see the Eagle.
Defense: As expected all but MacInnis return. Brewer was the only guy on the bubble, but with Kevin Lowe in the braintrust, he was going to return.
As for the 2 additions, Redden just missed the SLC team and so was a natural. Dependable guy. Someone to fill in for the likes of Brewer, Jovo, Nieds. Blake.
Regehr, is a more physical dman, which is insurance for Foote, Pronger, Blake, and Jovo.
All I can say is that I might have prefered 1 offensive and 1 defensive spare blueliner to replace one of the SLC 6 if they happen to go down. I believe that Stuart's offensive game is better than that of Redden. But, I have no issues with the selection of the 8 dmen.
As for JBo, the kid is still young, only 2 years of NHL exp. If he was on the team, it would be soley as the spare 8 dmen role.
For McCabe, I'm sure Quinn was fighting for his inclusion as was Martin for Redden. Probably the fact that Redden and Regehr appear more calm might have been a deciding factor. As from the roster, no one is too emotional out there.
As for the forwards, well that was the area that change was to be plentiful.
The for sure returnees were Lemieux (appears to be healthy by the tournament), Sakic and Iginla.
The ones on the bubble that made it Yzerman, Smyth, and Gagne. each deserve to go. Yzerman is going to drop down to a 3/4 line role to bring checking, defense and leadership. Nothing wrong with that selection.
Ryan Smyth, is not the most talented player available, but you know what Vlad, he above any of the final few guys deserves to be there the most. Simply by his 50 WC games for Canada. How many other top players decline each year? Not Ryan, he's always there to answer the bell. Even in 2002, after ankle surgery, I would have thought he would finally say "NO", but instead he went over and suited up. He is a heart and soul kind of guy. And you need that. Even if he is only a spare forward, he belongs in a Canadian sweater.
Gagne, hasn't stepped up following the SLC games. Injuries have held him back last season. But, what he does bring is the versitility and ability to play in all 3 situations. He can be moved down to a checking line or up to a scoring line if needed. Something Canada needs.
The Bubble players that were cut Kariya and Peca. PK had injuries this year, but the play of another smallish forward, St. Louis, leading NHL scorer and dangerous SH scorer made PK expendable. MP, sucks that the blown knee by Tucker killed the 02-03 year for him. But, it appears that Draper is taking his spot, so no loss there, aside from the monster hits that Peca can dish out.
SLC guys who were not going to return for sure were Nolan, Shanahan, Fleury, Lindros, Nieuwendyk. All due to injuries and age. No surprising omissions there.
As for the 7 new faces that take their spots and the additional 2 spares:
Heatley, great young talent who had a monster WC. Easily takes a PF spot on the team.
Thornton, just missed the SLC team, so was a natural to make it.
Doan, played great this year for Phoenix and was their best player. Smaller ice fits his game and a strong WC, not to mention his owner Wayne made him one of the final roster players. Again, good in all 3 situations.
Marleau, great young player. Speed and the ability to play centre and wing adds flexibility to the team.
Richards, ok, one of the tougher choices, but over the past few years he's played better than Lecavalier. Was a tough choice, but I can understand why they opted for Richards. Again, probably like McCabe, keeping emotions in check might have played a role.
Morrow, well definately a gritty 2 way guy. If this was the larger ice surface, he still might have made it. Young player on the rise. Solid selection, given that he was to replace a Nolan, Lindros, Shanny role on the checking line.
Maltby, definately the most debated selected. Ahead of Primeau and others, yeah, it was an eye catcher. Probably the chemistry he has with Draper landed him on the roster. Then again, he might not play, one of the 3 spare forwards.
The final roster, we can say that Theodore will sit for the goalies. Redden and Regehr will likely sit for the D. Maybe Brewer will sit. The other 5 are pretty safe bets to play every meaningful game.
Forwards, Lemieux, Sakic, Iginla, Yzerman, Thornton, Draper, Heatley, St. Louis, and Gagne will likely see every meaningful game. Final 6 guys, I would say IMO, that Smyth, Doan and Morrow will play the key games. Leaving Maltby, Marleau, and Richards as the spares.
As from this roster, all I can say is that I'm a tad surprised that Canada did not load up on size. With the omission of Primeau, Nash, Murray, Lecavalier, and Bertuzzi up front, Canada would be tough to move down low.
But, this roster also highlights the difference between the NHL vs. International game. More "pure grinders" are here than in SLC. Peca was the only pure grinder, but this team now has 3 of them in Draper, Morrow, and Maltby.
Regardless of who is on or off the team, Let's go CANADA should be the sentiment in September!
Thats usually all it is. And we all know regardless who gets picked if he is a leafs player it is ONLY because he is a leaf player. No problem with Belfour being picked he is the Vet backup incase Brodeur goes down with injury.Leaf Defender said:
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
Burke's Evil Spirit said:
If by healthy scratch you mean "I saw a scoresheet and he was listed as healthy scratch" that doesn't mean much. This is generally very unreliable.
As for him being sent down, Bob Mckenzie speculated on TV a few weeks ago that this could be due to three things:
-Conditional stint and/or enjoying a bit more success
-Money the Panthers wanted to save
-Trying to compete Dudley-style, which means losing as much as possible
Nowehere was it reported that the Panthers were unhappy about him and all season long, I kept an eye on him and he was doing a great job for the most part, under extremely difficult circumstances (a no backbone, talentless team that saw numerous coaching changes)
As to your question of why some people are so high on Bouwmeester:
I think he is the sort of player who doesn't miss a beat when the talent environment is more competitive and of better quality. That's probably one of his greatest assets.
I do think that guys like Redden are a tiny notch above him. But the tiny notch is not enough for me to leave him out when I expect him to be counted on to become one of the best Canadian assets in the future. As a learning process, I'd rather have him as a greatly adaptive 8th defenseman who can be cast in pretty much any role and see limited action.
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
Street Hawk said:
Well, that's funny because I never said he should not make the team. In fact, less than a week ago I said he should make the team.
KingofSpain
Registered User
First off, I love the selection of the "International Grind Line". I think Morrow is the replacement for this line if there is any injuries. For those who don't like the Draper/Maltby picks, at least McCarty isn't there. 
I also believe that Yzerman won't be able to play in the tournament and there was 2 reasons for his selection. 1. Respect. 2. To see how Primeau and Lecavalier react, with the better one replacing Stevie.
This team looks to have a lot of chemistry, which might explain Gagne and Richards.
Gagne plays on the Olympic line with Sakic and Iginla, while Richards has a history with St.Louis.
I'm not worrying over Brewer. If he blows his chance there are 7 other D that are quite capable without him.
And why is Sportsnet acting like Belfour is No.2 and Luongo is third.
I also believe that Yzerman won't be able to play in the tournament and there was 2 reasons for his selection. 1. Respect. 2. To see how Primeau and Lecavalier react, with the better one replacing Stevie.
This team looks to have a lot of chemistry, which might explain Gagne and Richards.
Gagne plays on the Olympic line with Sakic and Iginla, while Richards has a history with St.Louis.
I'm not worrying over Brewer. If he blows his chance there are 7 other D that are quite capable without him.
And why is Sportsnet acting like Belfour is No.2 and Luongo is third.
Burke's Evil Spirit said:
I don't understand it either. I'm high on Brews play lately, and I'm a homer, but if people think that Hannan or whoever should be there, fine... but Bouwmeester? Brewer and Bouwmeester were on the WC team, and there was absolutely no question who was playing better. It wasn't even close, as Brewer and Niedermayer were the class of the Canadian defence.
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
Boomhower said:
Gagne too soft ??? You don't ever watch him play then.
Gagne is not close to soft. Great along the wall and in the corners.
Gagne is every bit as fast if not faster than Maltby and Draper.
Hossa
Registered User
OneSpeedOnly said:
I don't quite know if Gagne would have 80 points on a different team. Bottom line is right now, the guy is a 40-50 point player. That's what his 2002-03 season would project to had he been health. That's what he did this year. He does a lot well, but he doesn't produce more than guys like Alyn McCauley (who is up for the Selke this year)...yet is there. If Gagne is there for his defensive play, put him on a checking line. But if he's going to play with Sakic and Iginla....I'd rather have somebody who has scored at least 50 points in the last couple years.
Alex Tanguay scored well over a point a game this year with 70 points in 69 games, and had he not missed some games late in the year, he could have been very close to the top in the league in scoring. Yet....Gagne is going to play with Sakic and Iginla?
I mean....who's the better player anyways...Primeau or Gagne? I sure would take Primeau, not only defensively and physically, but offensively it's close too. It's a case of a young player whose development has gone in reverse the last couple of years. Same thing with Brewer, who almost everybody agrees should not be on the squad.
Also, I've seen a fair bit of Gagne, thank you very much. I mean, I watched my Senators play the FLyers two straight years in the playoffs, so I've seen him first hand in the playoffs. I've watched almost ever Flyers playoff game since the Devils series too. He's hardly a dynamic offensive player right now. If somebody's playing with possibly Canada's two best forwards (Iginla and Sakic)....I certainly would rather it be Tanguay or even Lecavalier right now.
Gagne is a very solid player. Just like Primeau, he's developed a very complete all-round game under Hitch. That being said, Canada has tons and tons of complete all-round players, and if Gagne is there because he worked well in the 2002 Olympics, meaning he's on a scoring line, that's not the best player for that line. Again, solid player, but he's no better offensively than our "grinders" in Draper and Morrow for example....and that's not the role he's on the team to play I don't think.
I really don't think there's anything seriously wrong with the selections made for team Canada. Canada is so deep that they cann't make bad desitions. Really I'm seeing just a bunch of homers crying that their teams players never made it.
Canuck fans because Bertuzzi wasn't named.
Montreal fans because Theodore wasn't named.
Toronto fans because McCabe wasn't named.
Philly fans because Primeau wasn't named.
Whatever. I guess my biggest gripe is that Brewer is on the team over a few other noteables.
Canuck fans because Bertuzzi wasn't named.
Montreal fans because Theodore wasn't named.
Toronto fans because McCabe wasn't named.
Philly fans because Primeau wasn't named.
Whatever. I guess my biggest gripe is that Brewer is on the team over a few other noteables.
Splatman Phanutier said:
Totally agree with you man. first of all, people think we are trying to select an All-star team. That's different from Canada is doing. You need guys that can check and play defensively. I have faith in Gretzky since he picked the 2002 Olympic champ roster.
Obviously, there are a TON of guys more talented than Draper, Maltby and Regehr but you need guys like that to shut down the other star players. Draper and Maltby have shown they are great shutdown players and are great on the PK. Regehr has shown he's a great defensive physical guy. Plus I like Belfour being there. He's proven winner who's still a top notch goalie. Besides, they already have Luongo there as the young rising goalie.
rye&ginger
Registered User
For the 2002 Olympics, I felt the best players were chosen before the games started. It worked.
This team does not give me that same feeling. The guys making the choices know more about hockey then anyone here so we Canadians can just hope they know what they are doing.
Luongo needs to be the #2. Its no use having him as the #3 at this point since he is on the team because he is being singled out as the future #1. Belfour should be insurance and nothing more. Him and Marty can help him out.
Leaving Aucoin off for a guy like Brewer is a mind boggler.
Not crazy about Morrow either. I felt he had a poor season. Gagne as well, has been a shadow for 2 years.
McCabe showed what he can do in the playoffs. I didnt like what I saw.
This team does not give me that same feeling. The guys making the choices know more about hockey then anyone here so we Canadians can just hope they know what they are doing.
Luongo needs to be the #2. Its no use having him as the #3 at this point since he is on the team because he is being singled out as the future #1. Belfour should be insurance and nothing more. Him and Marty can help him out.
Leaving Aucoin off for a guy like Brewer is a mind boggler.
Not crazy about Morrow either. I felt he had a poor season. Gagne as well, has been a shadow for 2 years.
McCabe showed what he can do in the playoffs. I didnt like what I saw.
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On the topic of picking players for "experiance" ... IMO you concentrate to win NOW. What happens if Brodeur goes down, would you rather blow the chance at the WC this year and gamble on Theodore, or take the sure bet on Belfore? If Pronger and Foote get injured again, would you rather gamble on a rookie in Jay Bouwmeester, or take the sure, safe bet in Regehr or Redden? Ditto the forwards.
Experiance does not have to come here... it will be years before they finally suit up for a big event like this, they'll gain their experiance from the NHL and World Championships. IMO, the whole "bring young players for experiance" is totally overrated and overblown. This isn't the NHL where you give rookie's experiance, its a short tournament where you want sure bets when the chips are down.
Experiance does not have to come here... it will be years before they finally suit up for a big event like this, they'll gain their experiance from the NHL and World Championships. IMO, the whole "bring young players for experiance" is totally overrated and overblown. This isn't the NHL where you give rookie's experiance, its a short tournament where you want sure bets when the chips are down.
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