Canadian Soccer Part VI; O CANADA O BABY

[robertmac43]

Already got my Atletico vs Cavalry tickets. My first CPL game. Can't wait!

Amazing! It's a great product! Lot's of fun to follow as well.

 

[Clark4Ever]

All things considered, I think we were relatively fortunate in the draw. We probably got the second most favorable result possible under the circumstances.

Belgium and Croatia are obviously very strong squads with world class talent and experience, but most of the core players on both clubs are past their prime.

I think we have a chance of coming away with a win against Morocco and a draw against Belgium or Croatia, and historically speaking, that could be enough to get us through to the round of 16.

Exciting times ahead!

 

[Bures Elbow]

Could have been better, could have been worse.

Belgium having an aging backline that's vulnerable to Canada's counter attacking and transitional wingplay with Davies, David, Buchanen. Yet they have De Bruyne in midfield and a solid attack despite Hazard being a shadow of what he is and Lukaku struggling to score for Chelsea.

Croatia is another aging team, but have a newer backline so unfortunately Stinic and / or Lovren won't be starting. Modric may by 36 but their midfield still includes Brozovic, Kovavic etc. Up front they haven't replaced Mandzukic though.

Morocco is a similar team to the USA in terms of play style, so it suits the style of play Canada employs. They have 3/4 solid players...Ziyech remains estranged by their manager however and is a massive loss for them. 50/50 game as both teams will view it as a must win.

Morocco will slice through Canada's backline, but Davies-David-Buchanen-Larin will get change out of their backline as well as Hakimi can't play both sides and Davies will be on the opposite side of the pitch.

 

[MeHateHe]

I think it's more that Belgium/Croatia are seen as older teams and the average Canadian fan probably doesn't know squat about Morocco's players. I'm psyched to have my country at the WC but their squad is a clear fourth in that group. They're also facing Courtois and Bounou, who are top 10 goalkeepers, with Courtois top-5.

Is it better or worse to have a bit of unsustainable optimism or a lot of overweaning pessimism?

My mindset coming out of this draw is this: there are eight or nine teams in the WC that would beat Canada at their best 9 times out of 10 (and the tenth would be a scoreless draw). That's probably all of pot 1 (except Qatar) and a couple from pot 2 (especially Germany. There's another four or five that probably beat Canada 7 out of 10, with Canada sneaking out a couple of wins in the other three. As for the rest, Canada is likely the underdog against most of them, but there are a lot of circumstances under which Canada wins even if, again, the majority of those 10 games result in a loss. Croatia and Morocco certainly fit in that latter group.

This Canada side is a good and ambitious group, with a bunch of young players with the capacity to punch a hole in the opposition. They've shown it in the games against the US and Mexico, both in their home wins and their road draws. This is augmented by a very disciplined style (in general), which has not left itself exposed to a lot of chances, even when (again, against Mexico and US particularly) there was a significant disparity in possession.

Moreover, this Canada team has shown how adaptable they are. They'll play physical when they need to. They'll play patient when they need to. They don't park the bus (like Canada teams have done for generations, believe me) but facing technically superior opponents (I've often conceded that the US and Mexico have technically better players) they've played smart, defensive football.

Again, I don't doubt that Canada will be underdogs, but irrespective of that, I expect them to challenge for a R16 spot. Tournament sports are like that. The best group of players is not always the best team, and especially in the World Cup, neither the best group of players nor the best team wins. So many variables are at play. I think - again, based more on the quality of their play through the Ocho moreso than judging the relative quality of the lineups - it's overly pessimistic to call them 'clear fourth' in the group.

So yeah, I reject the we-suck arguments. I understand and tend to just smile at the giddy enthusiasm of Canada fans who have been waiting for this for decades; if folks are a bit excited, who can blame them. And I think teams that underestimate Canada in November might get a rude awakening.

 

[Rob]

My expectations are low. Score a goal. I’ll be happy

 

[al secord]

Herdman has a lot of time to come up with game plans, which is his Forte.

I'm not all that optimistic about our chances to advance , but it won't dampen my enthusiasm.

 

[Clark4Ever]

My expectations are low. Score a goal. I’ll be happy

This is not the 1986 CMNT. We have the collective skill on this team to do better than that...

 

[EpochLink]

Just being in this spot is all good for me.
Im excited for this team to be in this position, it’s gonna be a good 3 games.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Is it better or worse to have a bit of unsustainable optimism or a lot of overweaning pessimism?

My mindset coming out of this draw is this: there are eight or nine teams in the WC that would beat Canada at their best 9 times out of 10 (and the tenth would be a scoreless draw). That's probably all of pot 1 (except Qatar) and a couple from pot 2 (especially Germany. There's another four or five that probably beat Canada 7 out of 10, with Canada sneaking out a couple of wins in the other three. As for the rest, Canada is likely the underdog against most of them, but there are a lot of circumstances under which Canada wins even if, again, the majority of those 10 games result in a loss. Croatia and Morocco certainly fit in that latter group.

This Canada side is a good and ambitious group, with a bunch of young players with the capacity to punch a hole in the opposition. They've shown it in the games against the US and Mexico, both in their home wins and their road draws. This is augmented by a very disciplined style (in general), which has not left itself exposed to a lot of chances, even when (again, against Mexico and US particularly) there was a significant disparity in possession.

Moreover, this Canada team has shown how adaptable they are. They'll play physical when they need to. They'll play patient when they need to. They don't park the bus (like Canada teams have done for generations, believe me) but facing technically superior opponents (I've often conceded that the US and Mexico have technically better players) they've played smart, defensive football.

Again, I don't doubt that Canada will be underdogs, but irrespective of that, I expect them to challenge for a R16 spot. Tournament sports are like that. The best group of players is not always the best team, and especially in the World Cup, neither the best group of players nor the best team wins. So many variables are at play. I think - again, based more on the quality of their play through the Ocho moreso than judging the relative quality of the lineups - it's overly pessimistic to call them 'clear fourth' in the group.

So yeah, I reject the we-suck arguments. I understand and tend to just smile at the giddy enthusiasm of Canada fans who have been waiting for this for decades; if folks are a bit excited, who can blame them. And I think teams that underestimate Canada in November might get a rude awakening.

I don't really disagree with any of this and for sure it's better and understandable to be optimistic in this scenario. I don't think Canada sucks. But I also don't think it's crazy to recognize that they're definitely 4th here, at least on paper. I don't see what's so wild about that (they clearly are on paper) or disrespectful to recognize they got a tough draw.

 

[gary69]

Rebic has not been called to the side since last EURO and I would be surprised if he is recalled at all.

Don’t see a pairing of Lovren and Vida happening as it would be a disaster. You will likely see a mix of Juranovic, Sosa and Gvardiol as part of the back line in combo with Vida. I’d say Stanisic too, but I don’t think he plays a roll in this WC cycle. Lovren should be riding the pine and be super pumped he’s even on the squad.

Don’t forget Brozovic in the midfield as well. He’s a pit bull. Be aware of Lovro Majer who is playing well this season in France. The midfield is the strength of this team. No doubt.

The strikers won’t scare anyone. I miss Mandzukic. Great work rate and showed up when it counted.

Still have Perisic who will be a threat on the wings.

It will be a tough game but I would expect Croatia to get the result. Too bad both my countries have been drawn together. Hoping both can progress to the knockout stage.

What's your opinion on Kramaric heading for the WC?

Maybe his decline is permanent now, but Kramaric was certainly good enough against the likes of Canada's defence before this season. His goal numbers have certainly dropped a lot this year, but Hoffenheim are still doing well.

I don't watch a ton of Hoffenhei, but based on the games I've seen, he can still do some damage against mediocre defences on his day.

 

[MeHateHe]

I don't really disagree with any of this and for sure it's better and understandable to be optimistic in this scenario. I don't think Canada sucks. But I also don't think it's crazy to recognize that they're definitely 4th here, at least on paper. I don't see what's so wild about that (they clearly are on paper) or disrespectful to recognize they got a tough draw.

I don't think it's definite at all, on paper or otherwise. Elo ratings have Canada higher than Morocco and if fancy stats ain't your bag, that's just me suggesting that worst-case scenario says Canada is at least in the same ballpark as Morocco.

There were a lot of draws that would have been way worse than what they ended up with. I'd rather they're in with Belgium and Croatia than with Germany and Spain, or with Brazil, Serbia and Switzerland, or with England and Wales. So saying this is a tough draw for Canada I think is overly pessimistic. This is a pretty good result: could have been better (Group A!) but it could have been way worse.

Anyway, whatever. Game is played on the field blah blah blah. Suarez bites.

 

[Islesfan22]

Canada playing Belgium and then Croatia is a really tall order. Croatia not as good as 2018 but still a really strong midfield which is in my mind the biggest factor in winning or losing games.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I don't think it's definite at all, on paper or otherwise. Elo ratings have Canada higher than Morocco and if fancy stats ain't your bag, that's just me suggesting that worst-case scenario says Canada is at least in the same ballpark as Morocco.

There were a lot of draws that would have been way worse than what they ended up with. I'd rather they're in with Belgium and Croatia than with Germany and Spain, or with Brazil, Serbia and Switzerland, or with England and Wales. So saying this is a tough draw for Canada I think is overly pessimistic. This is a pretty good result: could have been better (Group A!) but it could have been way worse.

Anyway, whatever. Game is played on the field blah blah blah. Suarez bites.

That's totally fair for you to think but I'm getting the sense that people are really underrating the factor of having your starting lineup largely playing in the best European leagues, which isn't something Canada has and the other three do.

 

[al secord]

Americans can't beat us. Yet they seem awfully confident against a world cup semi finalist and euro runner up lol.

Maybe we ARE selling ourselves short.

 

[kovacro]

What's your opinion on Kramaric heading for the WC?

Maybe his decline is permanent now, but Kramaric was certainly good enough against the likes of Canada's defence before this season. His goal numbers have certainly dropped a lot this year, but Hoffenheim are still doing well.

I don't watch a ton of Hoffenhei, but based on the games I've seen, he can still do some damage against mediocre defences on his day.

He’s much too inconsistent for my liking. He did play well in the recent friendly tournament they had in Qatar. We’ll see how his form is 7 months from now but there are not many solid options behind him, although I am intrigued by Simic who is part of the U21 setup.

Luka Sucic is another up and coming talent that has offensive prowess.

 

[robertmac43]

I decided to support Forge because my girlfriend is from Hamilton.

Amazing. Welcome to the club. We have a target on our back from years of dominating.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Amazing. Welcome to the club. We have a target on our back from years of dominating.

Choiniere, Browne and Bekker all played for Montreal so that also helps hehe.

 

[Islesfan22]

He’s much too inconsistent for my liking. He did play well in the recent friendly tournament they had in Qatar. We’ll see how his form is 7 months from now but there are not many solid options behind him, although I am intrigued by Simic who is part of the U21 setup.

Luka Sucic is another up and coming talent that has offensive prowess.

No Mandzukic is a big loss for Croatia as he is just a warrior who scores goals in big games. Croatia I still think has to much class in midfield which will be enough to get them out of this group. Gvardiol is a beast by the way. One of the best young center backs in football. He won’t be staying at Redbull Leipzig for long.

 

[wingman75]

It's all too early for true prognostications imo. The games are not until November... who knows about injuries or form or anything else.

I am all for the optimisim I see... trying to find reasons as to why Canada could beat our group opponents is awesome, regardless if it is realistic or not. As the time gets closer, and we get those friendlies out of the way the true expectations will be set, so I say let people have fun and dream for the next couple months... this is exciting!!

Let's remember, Canada is in the World Cup, not as a host, not in the expanded 48 team event, the true, classic 32 team World Cup... and we got there by finishing FIRST in CONCACAF. If I told everyone on here we would be playing in the Intercontinental Playoff in June, we would ALL have jumped at that opportunity!!

Based on what we have seen, the team will be put in a position for ultimate success, and the players will leave nothing on the pitch. If that results in a three loss group stage, so be it... but I think this team has shown they are willing to find a way, to adjust. I don't know if that means find a way to score a goal, win a game or advance but whatever we get it will be the best we could have asked for. Advancing out of the group stage is unlikely, but I believe we CAN.

Let's all remember too, this is a build up to 2026... and it always has been.

Go Canada Go !!!

 

[maclean]

Reminds me of my teenage years when I was too cool to be excited about anything.

Some of us never stopped being cool

 

[PanniniClaus]

It's all too early for true prognostications imo. The games are not until November... who knows about injuries or form or anything else.

I am all for the optimisim I see... trying to find reasons as to why Canada could beat our group opponents is awesome, regardless if it is realistic or not. As the time gets closer, and we get those friendlies out of the way the true expectations will be set, so I say let people have fun and dream for the next couple months... this is exciting!!

Let's remember, Canada is in the World Cup, not as a host, not in the expanded 48 team event, the true, classic 32 team World Cup... and we got there by finishing FIRST in CONCACAF. If I told everyone on here we would be playing in the Intercontinental Playoff in June, we would ALL have jumped at that opportunity!!

Based on what we have seen, the team will be put in a position for ultimate success, and the players will leave nothing on the pitch. If that results in a three loss group stage, so be it... but I think this team has shown they are willing to find a way, to adjust. I don't know if that means find a way to score a goal, win a game or advance but whatever we get it will be the best we could have asked for. Advancing out of the group stage is unlikely, but I believe we CAN.

Let's all remember too, this is a build up to 2026... and it always has been.

Go Canada Go !!!

Yeah baby - let's go!

 

[JianYang]

Canada sort of has to hope that these teams shoot themselves in the foot to varying degrees. Maybe the pressure paralyzes Belgium to an extent in the opening match, and canada find a result. Then you're off and running.

Maybe other teams shoot themselves by taking canada lightly. One thing I'm confident of is that if you're not ready to play canada, they can definitely burn you no matter who you are. While not all the components to Canada are world class, their pace down the wings and tools to counter should be considered a problem for any squad, because that quality can kill teams no matter how much of the play they happen to carry.

 

[JianYang]

It's funny how some Canadians are sleeping on Morroco as well. Obviously, that will be the matchup that we have the best chance of getting 3 points in, but man even that is a tough one.

Hakimi, En Nesryi, Boufal, Saiss, Malcuit, Mazraoui, etc. There are some really solid players in that squad and who knows maybe they even rebuild the relationship with Ziyech to get better.

Our team is good and we know the guys will give all 90 minutes there all but let's not sleep on anyone in this tournament.

Every team is a problem in this group. That's just how it's intended to be for a pot 4 team.

On the topic of morocco, they finished 6 wins no losses, and a draw in their qualification matches, and finished with a goal differential of +22. It wasn't the most difficult route for them but that is still impressive numbers to put up.

I do wonder how these teams feel about Canada being their pot 4 draw though.

 

[ahmedou]

WE CAN DOU IT

 

[robertmac43]

Every team is a problem in this group. That's just how it's intended to be for a pot 4 team.

On the topic of morocco, they finished 6 wins no losses, and a draw in their qualification matches, and finished with a goal differential of +22. It wasn't the most difficult route for them but that is still impressive numbers to put up.

I do wonder how these teams feel about Canada being their pot 4 draw though.

That's just the World Cup. very few push-over teams across the 32. I've not convinced the difference between pot 3 and 4 would have been huge in terms of group strength. I

Morocco is definitely solid. Would I put too much stock in their qualifiers? Probably not. Defensive systems are not always top of mind in CAF. I think they may struggle to break down more rigid systems.