Oilhawks
Like Some Snow-White Marble Eyes
- Nov 24, 2011
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Probably. (The article didn’t have much to say that wasn’t already said otherwise, just an economist suggesting that and rehashing other items.)
GDT: Canadian Soccer | Canada at the Copa America - July 9 vs Argentina in the SF
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Probably. (The article didn’t have much to say that wasn’t already said otherwise, just an economist suggesting that and rehashing other items.)
They will get a Canadian game for sure and possibly more if Canada goes to the second round robin group stage of the event...prior to the round of 16. Apparently Canada will get a round of 16 game as well, from what I am hearing, so that may end up in Vancouver. It SHOULD actually be in Vancouver given their great facility but we can't underestimate the pull and influence of the larger city in Toronto.
Oilhawks
Like Some Snow-White Marble Eyes
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If that’s the case, more proof that the provincial “demands” were a non factor.
Is that the same economist, conveniently hired by the U. of A., when Katz was proposing the Ice District and "argued" against it?
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StoveTopStauffer
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2012
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If Kenney was going to piss away a cool $billion it would have been nice if it was at least for something like this.
Oilhawks
Like Some Snow-White Marble Eyes
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I’m not sure. Honestly I wasn’t thrilled about how sweet a deal Katz got but at least it is for something of more tangible and lasting value to citizens beyond a few sloppy seconds games of the World Cup. It’s also injected more to the economy downtown during the season and concerts, events etc. (And to the city at large during playoffs.)
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
as I stated here and other places
1) Vancouver will be happy till they get the bill--a few years ago the was a report on line about just how much of "grey" area bills get sent to host cities and my guess is BC will send the bill the feds
2) Here in Europe they are saying Canada is only getting first round games. So considering the money I think Edmonton should be happy they are not hosts. Host cities underwrite the entire games not just games in the country
3)Unless the demands/requirement's have changed. Vancouver is without use of BC place for the entire run of the world cup--regardless of if the stadium is in use. So they will be unable use BC Place for stuff they usually use it for--BC place host a lot of private functions, conferences and other things.
4) Do to how wide spread the host cities are, it looks like countries will be spread out over 3 or 4 cities and not just the usual 2 for the first round--so fans maybe more selective on where they go
5) Whenever we see economical benefits of hosting these type of events--there is often an imbalance of over sampling outside money vs local money being spent. Often over looked is that FIFA gets massive tax breaks and other incentives from host cities. Also, the host city is expected to comp many many hotel rooms for teams and fifa officials
6) Do not get mad. But When Edmonton hosted the track and field world championships a few years ago, some of the media were not kind in how the described Edmonton and when Edmonton hosted qualifying games in near zero weather football pundits had fun at Edmonton expense. Some of the memes were funny though
Like with many things--there is no real middle ground when it comes to hosting these kind of events--either you want to or you do not. I used to love these kind of things till I did some time behind the curtain volunteering for these things at the bidding or organizational stages(Vancouver when they first bid for the Olympics, the London bid for the olympics and when London bid for the fifa world cup and it left me very jaded. Only when I did stuff for the Ice Hockey world championships did I feel the host cities got good bang for their buck)
Like many who live in Europe, I am not a fan of Fifa and their business paradigm. It is pure greed and corruption
Oilhawks
Like Some Snow-White Marble Eyes
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Insightful post, I do agree and from what I’ve seen it’s rare that the host city / country breaks even and is usually a net loss (though not to what I imagine Qatar will be fielding as a net loss, that’s meme level of expenditure for the WC).
The bolded shouldn’t really make too many mad. I’m not sure when they plan to have those games but if there is any risk of it being colder, they’ve seen how it can be with the CONCACAF games. Having a retractable roof might have made a difference but I still think it would be overlooked for other reasons.
After the initial outrage has subsided on my end, I’m thinking it was probably for the best that they didn’t get the games, particularly if they do end up being lower tier matchups
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
One thing has gotten me curious
For those who do not know, FIFA heavily uses non disclosure agreements the further along the process you go. My little voice is telling me fifa made a request that the city and province may have been a bridge too far and the city and province felt it was better to self destruct the big the bid then bend over and take it up the back side
It is the game requests/demands that got me thinking. FIFA usually has an idea where they want play all the games and maybe the Edmonton Organizers were not happy with the games the were told they were going to have
For those who do not know, FIFA heavily uses non disclosure agreements the further along the process you go. My little voice is telling me fifa made a request that the city and province may have been a bridge too far and the city and province felt it was better to self destruct the big the bid then bend over and take it up the back side
It is the game requests/demands that got me thinking. FIFA usually has an idea where they want play all the games and maybe the Edmonton Organizers were not happy with the games the were told they were going to have
I won‘t get into "nicer“ comparisons, but agree that both cities are certainly larger and more attractive to FIFA and an international audience.
That being said - it’s not entirely a Toronto vs Vancouver vs Edmonton thing. Why does Mexico get three host cities and Canada only two?
A couple of guesses in my part, the population of Mexico is nearly 130 million, and it’s a developing economy that is soccer mad. With FIFA and others like the IOC it’s about the money and the grift. Once a known insider from Van got involved Edmontons bid was cooked. Fifa doesn’t play fair or respect it’s own process, it just chases money and benefits.
Sweetpotato
Registered User
Something to point out since I've seen this said in this thread, scheduling of games is completely random. So a Canadian city isn't even guaranteed to get a Canada game. They don't choose which game goes where.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
No, it isn't, and heres the whole article. Why do people link Twitter feeds instead of source articles? Please stop.
Edmonton would have lost money if it hosted World Cup: expert
A professor of economics says Edmonton should be happy it was not selected to hold games for the 2026 FIFA World Cup.
The Economist isn't wrong at all either, and theres really nothing worse than Cities putting up big time to host huge events like the bloated WC or Olympics. The only thing that is ever debated as corrolary benefit is initial influx of tourism and exposure and establishing more visitors in future. However Edmonton isn't that much of a destination. Its not our best play. For cities like Vancouver it always made sense to have high profile events. It built kind of a World Class exposure for that city starting with the Worlds Fair and Olympics. But Edmonton would not benefit similarly, or really that much at all.
The best plays for Edmonton have mostly already been done. For instance having the NHL bubble hosting was huge exposure at least on TV. In future having Allstar game or drafts. The entertainment district sells to hockey fans and out of town hockey fan visits.
People forget as well that Commonwealth from inauguration has hosted tons of international sporting events and while it brings in initial coin it doesn't mean beans as far as ongoing visits and exposure. I was there for most of the games in the U20 World Cup wherein Edmonton had several games, more than a dozen afairc. That was compelling soccer and not far off Mens world Cup play. Indeed a lot of stars played here and went on to star in Soccer in club teams or World Cup play. For a City that hosts Juniors tournaments so well it was a bit offputting that more fans weren't in seats for the Mens U20 tournament. People that slept on attending that missed a chance of a lifetime. jmo
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Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Mexico gets 3 games as per the article I just posted. Not to my understanding 3 host cities. Mexico has also hosted a complete World Cup and have been a top rank Football nation forever. Are we seriously going to argue why Mexico gets games? They should be getting more if anything. Maybe newer fans less aware of this but in Concacaf, historically, all football roads go through Mexico. Usually the team to beat and with the most fervent support. So that Mexico has substantial FIFA football lineage, and understandably.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Agree with most. But with proviso that the Bloated Olympics or World Cup make sense for some destinations. For those already in the World Class league and for London it makes sense any time because it one ups any of Paris, Rome etc, competitors and as we have seen a lot of big money of all types has settled on London for a longtime, and such a city benefits in each time becoming more of a developers dream. Doesn't work out for the average person too much, unless one happens to be a property owner potentially benefitting from massive increase in property value. But for cities and their cash grab, its what its about isn't it?
London is blatantly under affordable, and the City doesn't care. Uber gentrification seldom benefits most people.
People should be thankful living in non World Class affordable Edmonton. It is in every way a preferred place for families, individuals to try to make a living and get ahead. I think its just our ego sometimes that wants us to feel like we get some kind of world exposure here or there. But its in the careful what you wish for category. Vancouver real estate 40-50yrs ago was pretty much where Edmonton was at in a lot of areas. But turning Vancouver into some kind of real estate speculators play ground made Vancouver unaffordable to anybody else. Unless perhaps if one was lucky enough to buy housing there before a crack house cost 1million.
Three host cities: CDMX, Guadalajara, and Monterrey are all confirmed getting games.
And no, I’m not arguing that Mexico should not "get games“.
I know they’re the more populous country, the bigger football hotbed, and our continent‘s traditional powerhouse. I just find it disappointing that the US has 11 host cities, Mexico 3, and Canada only gets 2.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Thanks. Sorry about the error. I mean who of us knows really. Others have mentioned grafting, greasing wheels. You never know with FIFA, or alternately, sarcastically, you always know.
I doubt many of those Mexican cities with high poverty rates think its any great shakes that their cities are involved in WC vanity projects and aspirations instead of stuff like basic services and standard of living.
Just going to be honest. Life is heaven in Edmonton comparatively. I'm not going to lose any sleep over what Mexico gets. They get shafted and short end of the stick a lot, historically, as well.
People didn't mention this angle enough but how much did Toronto and Vancouver bids even dictate their being only two host cities and thereby maximizing the take of games they get? Toronto particularly in this country do not share well.
Just as an aside its always interesting how far Montreal has fallen off the landscape. Within my lifetime they've gone from hosting Expo 67, Summer Olympics, being Canadas big league international city to not even being a slice in these things now since the Big Owe. Montreal also being a cautionary tale in so many ways.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
I moved out of London 5 years ago and are far happier living in smaller cities
JustNapalmIt
Registered User
- May 14, 2017
- 3,285
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He didn’t argue against it. He said it was revenue neutral. Which it is/was.
There’s many many studies supporting that.
On a cash basis, the only one who made $$$ was Katz, as he raped and pillaged the City.
Competitive and winning are two different things. However usually winning starts with competitive if you are winning with a team game. Something that oilers players and coaches should inculcate.
Oilhawks
Like Some Snow-White Marble Eyes
- Nov 24, 2011
- 29,730
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No, it isn't, and heres the whole article. Why do people link Twitter feeds instead of source articles? Please stop.
Edmonton would have lost money if it hosted World Cup: expert
A professor of economics says Edmonton should be happy it was not selected to hold games for the 2026 FIFA World Cup.edmonton.ctvnews.ca
The Economist isn't wrong at all either, and theres really nothing worse than Cities putting up big time to host huge events like the bloated WC or Olympics. The only thing that is ever debated as corrolary benefit is initial influx of tourism and exposure and establishing more visitors in future. However Edmonton isn't that much of a destination. Its not our best play. For cities like Vancouver it always made sense to have high profile events. It built kind of a World Class exposure for that city starting with the Worlds Fair and Olympics. But Edmonton would not benefit similarly, or really that much at all.
The best plays for Edmonton have mostly already been done. For instance having the NHL bubble hosting was huge exposure at least on TV. In future having Allstar game or drafts. The entertainment district sells to hockey fans and out of town hockey fan visits.
People forget as well that Commonwealth from inauguration has hosted tons of international sporting events and while it brings in initial coin it doesn't mean beans as far as ongoing visits and exposure. I was there for most of the games in the U20 World Cup wherein Edmonton had several games, more than a dozen afairc. That was compelling soccer and not far off Mens world Cup play. Indeed a lot of stars played here and went on to star in Soccer in club teams or World Cup play. For a City that hosts Juniors tournaments so well it was a bit offputting that more fans weren't in seats for the Mens U20 tournament. People that slept on attending that missed a chance of a lifetime. jmo
It wasn’t even a Twitter feed, it was just a screenshot. I considered linking the article but it was short and didn’t think much else was really being said beyond the headline and what’s already been said. I was expecting some speculation or further insight from the economist
Holding those games would be the cheapest advertising ever bought. Once again an “expert opinion” begging the question.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Sorry, not calling anybody out, just how much I hate Twitter, and as a source. I guess I could see the point that the source article wasn't delineating a whole lot more. In anycase it makes the obvious point.
EchoesoftheEighties
HF Oil's Unofficial Shitposter
The tl;dr version of all of this is that it was gonna cost a shit ton of money so the AB gov made demands to make it profitable/break even.
FIFA didn't like that so they said go f*** yourself.
Same reason many other cities pull out, same reason Calgary said no to the Olympics etc.
It sucks but that's how she goes
FIFA didn't like that so they said go f*** yourself.
Same reason many other cities pull out, same reason Calgary said no to the Olympics etc.
It sucks but that's how she goes
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Its reasonable too. Doesn't make a lot of sense for Edmonton to incur great expense, and far more expenditure than its worth, to go on heavy without any conditions. Canada and Mexico already essentially lost the Tournament to the US who are getting 80% of the games and all the big games. This is essentially the US WC, people are forgetting that. Canada and Mexico are being thrown some 10 game crumbs. This might sound sexy until people realize games between very non stellar Nations in what will be a substantially watered down 48 Nation World Cup. Unlike previous World Cups which offer mostly must viewing the 48 team format basically guarantees that some real dogs will be in there.
So lets say Edmonton got 2 games. What really would be the interest in seeing Saudi Arabia play Macedonia or Wales play the Faroe Islands (joking)
Toronto is probably getting most of the Canada matches, even though BC Place is better. Edmonton would be assigned the crumbs of the crumbs. Just at Group stage games.
Theres a double edged sword in this tournament. Now that we're not hosting we avoid the inevitable gasps about how not all games are selling, or anywhere close to be selling decently. Theres going to be some real low attendance turnouts in 2026, in a WC, and the world viewing audience won't be looking too favorably on that while not considering the reason, 48 teams.
FIFA isn't completely daft. North America got this untenable and unwieldy World Cup because you need a lot of cities to host it. Theres only so much audience and ticket sales to be had in one nation or location. Would get tiring without it. This Tournament is going to be an excessive slog.
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