Canadian players which are MISTAKES on the roster thus far

[thebodyczech]

What do you feel has been poor about Quinn's coaching?


About the team being star-studded: I'm not sure this is an issue. The stars have very different styles of play. This should enable them to find respective roles, as they have in previous tournaments. There are quite a few players on this team that are more role-players than star-players as well (Doan, Draper, Foote, McCabe, Bouwmeester et al.)

Quinn certainly has the ability to use some very skilled players. Let's be honest, love or hate team Canada, I don't think anyone can say that this team is lacking in skill. But the team is still sticking to gritty play. I realize that checking, clutching and grabbing are standard with Canadian hockey, but when facing primarily skilled (ie: "European") teams, shouldn't the team perhaps focus more on the skill aspect on the game? Not on outhitting the opponent, but on outshooting and outskating the other team. I think that is largely why Toronto, incidentally, has struggled--because it focuses too much on the physical aspect of the game.

I also disagree with Quinn's lineup combinations and overall strategy. What Canada really needs is to be able to shift gears. The Finns, as we saw today, are able to carry out of their zone and, just like that, crank it up full gear. They change speeds swiftly and effectively. The Slovaks have shown that they can do so as well. These are the two teams that, incidentally, are undefeated in the tourney.

Just my observations.

Also: good point on the football analogy.

 

[David]

Al MacInnis too , he was a rock .

In 2002 he wasn't.

 

[cc]

Like what someone said earlier, the biggest problem IMO is coaching. Not getting the players mentally ready for the games and have very little chemistry. Players seem to be standing around not knowing what their linemates are going to do.

I would have wanted Eric Staal to play instead of Draper.

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

Quinn certainly has the ability to use some very skilled players. Let's be honest, love or hate team Canada, I don't think anyone can say that this team is lacking in skill. But the team is still sticking to gritty play. I realize that checking, clutching and grabbing are standard with Canadian hockey, but when facing primarily skilled (ie: "European") teams, shouldn't the team perhaps focus more on the skill aspect on the game? Not on outhitting the opponent, but on outshooting and outskating the other team. I think that is largely why Toronto, incidentally, has struggled--because it focuses too much on the physical aspect of the game.

I also disagree with Quinn's lineup combinations and overall strategy. What Canada really needs is to be able to shift gears. The Finns, as we saw today, are able to carry out of their zone and, just like that, crank it up full gear. They change speeds swiftly and effectively. The Slovaks have shown that they can do so as well. These are the two teams that, incidentally, are undefeated in the tourney.

Just my observations.

Also: good point on the football analogy.

I have to disagree about the "outhitting" part. I actually think they've been outhit for the most part in this tournament. I think they've been trying to make their little passes and play too "European", looking for the perfect set-up. They're not keeping it simple and playing "their" game the way they should. The players they have are capable of playing both games, and they need to do it. They need players like Gagne, Lecavalier, St. Louis and Sakic to start creating chances with their speed and off the rush and then they need to counteract that with the big guys, Thornton, Bertuzzi, Nash and Heatley, who should get down low and physically dominate. I think the problem right now is that they're either trying to do one or the other, when they're capable of both. I shudder when I see Gagne digging for pucks in the corner and then I see Thornton trying to dance through 3 defenders down the middle. That's not right, those roles should be reversed.

I do agree with the other paragraph about shifting gears and line-up combos.

 

[Hedberg]

I'd always like to see Canada do well but the roster and coaching isn't the way I wanted it so Slovakia is my number one team if only Havlat was there they'd be my favourite.

Chara
Mez
Hossa
Demitra
Bondra
Havlat

all current or ex-Sens

I'm a Sens fan before a team Canada fan.

Havlat is Czech

 

[David]

I don't think that it's a question of who should have been left off but why this team isn't gelling yet...and I think that it's because they are missing that one unquestionable leader...there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians on this team.

However, having said that, I think that they'll figure things out by the time the medal rounds come along...I hope...and pray!!!!

 

[thebodyczech]

I have to disagree about the "outhitting" part. I actually think they've been outhit for the most part in this tournament. I think they've been trying to make their little passes and play too "European", looking for the perfect set-up. They're not keeping it simple and playing "their" game the way they should. The players they have are capable of playing both games, and they need to do it. They need players like Gagne, Lecavalier, St. Louis and Sakic to start creating chances with their speed and off the rush and then they need to counteract that with the big guys, Thornton, Bertuzzi, Nash and Heatley, who should get down low and physically dominate. I think the problem right now is that they're either trying to do one or the other, when they're capable of both. I shudder when I see Gagne digging for pucks in the corner and then I see Thornton trying to dance through 3 defenders down the middle. That's not right, those roles should be reversed.

I do agree with the other paragraph about shifting gears and line-up combos.

I suppose it varies from team to team, but I wonder how much of a influence coaches have in assigning roles to players. In other words: I hope that Quinn isn't the one telling Thornton to be like Chara and Gagne to be Tkachuk.

Otherwise: it seems that heart is lacking in this team. The players seem indifferent. Call me passionate, but if I lost a game at the Olympics (especially two consecutive ones), I'd expect to see a reaction from my team at the conclusion of the match. I'd expect anger. I'd expect concern. I'd expect a genuine desire to improve and go for gold. Canada hasn't shown it. I think complacency is the issue. Perhaps it's all for the best, for Finland and otherwise, to have dominated this tourney.

Reality checks may hurt, but they're necessary.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

I think that is largely why Toronto, incidentally, has struggled--because it focuses too much on the physical aspect of the game.

I know you said these are just your observations but you are dead wrong on this statement.

Toronto's struggles this season aren't related to their focus on physicality. In fact, this year's Toronto team doesn't seem to care for the physical aspect of the game.

 

[thebodyczech]

I know you said these are just your observations but you are dead wrong on this statement.

Toronto's struggles this season aren't related to their focus on physicality. In fact, this year's Toronto team doesn't seem to care for the physical aspect of the game.

I haven't followed Toronto much this year. My mistake. I was referring to the 03-04 Leafs with Roberts et al.

I didn't watch the Leafs much, I'll admit, but, from what I remember, they seemd to place a priority on physicality. Then again, many of those games were against the Senators.

 

[LastChancePrice]

OUT:

Coach:

Quinn .

Forward:

Thornton: Hes never there when we need him.
Nash. I dont like him.
Draper . Bah we need a defensive type of player...but there is better than him.
Doan.

Defencmen

Bouwmeester .
Blake
Foote

goaltender
No one

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

I suppose it varies from team to team, but I wonder how much of a influence coaches have in assigning roles to players. In other words: I hope that Quinn isn't the one telling Thornton to be like Chara and Gagne to be Tkachuk.

Otherwise: it seems that heart is lacking in this team. The players seem indifferent. Call me passionate, but if I lost a game at the Olympics (especially two consecutive ones), I'd expect to see a reaction from my team at the conclusion of the match. I'd expect anger. I'd expect concern. I'd expect a genuine desire to improve and go for gold. Canada hasn't shown it. I think complacency is the issue. Perhaps it's all for the best, for Finland and otherwise, to have dominated this tourney.

Reality checks may hurt, but they're necessary.

Well, if it's not Quinn, who is telling Gagne to fight for pucks while Iginla stands in the slot? It's so weird to see and I wonder what's going through the players' minds. Gagne should park himself in the slot, and Iginla should get him the puck. If Quinn is telling them who is positioned where (usually the coaches job) he has no clue what's going on.

And I agree, to an extent, about the heart. I don't know if it's heart, because they all love their country and want to win, it's more a case of playing determined, desperate hockey. I think when it really matters, they'll get there.

 

[Twist and Shout]

McCabe is useless. He's not even getting his big point shot away.

The problem is.. there is no one to put the puck on his tape to bang it in on goal (Scott Niedermayer is what is missing on this team).

 

[BlueAndWhite]

The problem is.. there is no one to put the puck on his tape to bang it in on goal (Scott Niedermayer is what is missing on this team).

McCabe's barely played on the powerplay to begin with.

Pronger, Redden, Blake, Richards have been at the point for the most part of the first four games.

 

[thebodyczech]

Well, if it's not Quinn, who is telling Gagne to fight for pucks while Iginla stands in the slot? It's so weird to see and I wonder what's going through the players' minds. Gagne should park himself in the slot, and Iginla should get him the puck. If Quinn is telling them who is positioned where (usually the coaches job) he has no clue what's going on.

And I agree, to an extent, about the heart. I don't know if it's heart, because they all love their country and want to win, it's more a case of playing determined, desperate hockey. I think when it really matters, they'll get there.

Exactly. I got the feeling that the Canadians felt that, not just 80% of success, to quote Woody Allen, was showing up, but, for them, all 100% of it. It's a good lesson for the players in my view.

 

[Sotnos]

Not that I'm surprised the Tampa players have all been named multiple times, but I would really like to hear how Lecavalier has played poorly.

 

[Parch]

I too think Bertuzzi has been Canada's best forward.

I'm not really unhappy with the roster, but considering the lack of offense, Staal instead of Draper would make more sense.

Especially when Draper is expected to contribute offensively, but that would be a coaching problem wouldn't it? I don't like the way Quinn is coaching this team. Line combinations are not clicking, the powerplay lineups are not working, and playing time distribution is questionable. The coaching staff in general is going to have to make the adjustments and figure out the combinations that will work.

And I think they will. These prelim games mean little. The current Canadian lineup has the talent and are more than capable of getting their act together and winning gold. I have faith.

If Canada loses a quarter or semifinal game, that's when we'll really have something to complain about.

 

[komisakick ass]

Out: Doan, Draper, one of Pronger/Blake

In: Staal, Spezza, Phaneuf


I don't buy the "we need grinders" crap. This ain't the NHL. The ice is bigger which means Skating and creativity are at a premium. Guys with as much skill as Staal and Spezza would help our scoring woes (not too mention the Heatley/Spezza chemistry factor).
Having those guys play offensive roles and then asking guys like Smyth, Sakic, Richards to pick up the defensive slack would have been better than having Doan and Draper in the lineup.

I also think that Tanguay might have been a better pick than St-Louis... but they are pretty even.

Phaneuf should be here on talent AND on his level of play this year. The guy is a pure gamer and would be showing much more determination and energy than Pronger or Blake.

Gretzky wanted to reward guys who have been with the team in the past... That's all fine and good, but he shouldn't have said so publicly cuz what he got is a bunch of guys playing without the passion and energy that you get with guys that don't feel entitled to anything.

We score 0 goals in the last two games...I totally agree with you, maybe Stall or Tanguay would have score

 

[ProngerRocks]

bertuzzi hasnt been canadas best foward - he cost the team a goal, took some bad penalties.....he is a cancer in the dressing room and is quite frankly driving this team down. he needs to be sat for canada to have any hope.

bertuzzi is the problem end of story

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

I'd always like to see Canada do well but the roster and coaching isn't the way I wanted it so Slovakia is my number one team if only Havlat was there they'd be my favourite.

Chara
Mez
Hossa
Demitra
Bondra
Havlat

all current or ex-Sens

I'm a Sens fan before a team Canada fan.

Uh, Havlat isn't Slovakian, he is Czech.

 

[cyrisweb]

bertuzzi hasnt been canadas best foward - he cost the team a goal, took some bad penalties.....he is a cancer in the dressing room and is quite frankly driving this team down. he needs to be sat for canada to have any hope.

bertuzzi is the problem end of story

please stop posting you give posters on these boards a bad name

 

[Chadley]

bertuzzi hasnt been canadas best foward - he cost the team a goal, took some bad penalties.....he is a cancer in the dressing room and is quite frankly driving this team down. he needs to be sat for canada to have any hope.

bertuzzi is the problem end of story

And Pronger hasn't taken stupid penalties? If I recall he took a DUMB cross-checking penalty and gave Switzerland a 5 on 3. Bertuzzi TOOK ONE DUMB PENALTY!....Cancer in the dressing room? How come everyone says the love playing with him?

Bertuzzi has been one of Canada's better players, if you don't like it, don't watch...I'm tired of this OH BERTUZZI SUCKS!! omfgz..etbhusib...whine whine whine lol....Bertuzzi haters

 

[Rover*]

Doan, Draper and St. Louis shouldn't be on this team. Spezza, Staal and Crosby should.

 

[Forever27]

bertuzzi hasnt been canadas best foward - he cost the team a goal, took some bad penalties.....he is a cancer in the dressing room and is quite frankly driving this team down. he needs to be sat for canada to have any hope.

bertuzzi is the problem end of story

Chris Pronger would disagree.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Olympics/2006Turin/Hockey/2006/02/15/1444787-cp.html

As the horde of media approached Todd Bertuzzi on Thursday, Team Canada teammate Chris Pronger looked over and said: "Leave him alone."

 

[teme]

The most obvious lack, and I think I said this way before the tournament, is lack of puck carrying dmen. Losing Niedermayers really hurts. So why not say Morris or Boyle? Even Darryl Sydor (he is a Canadian, right?) would help. I am not saying there is anything wrong with say having Foote on the team, just that the defence is off balance.

 

[Eddie Vedder]

Doan, Draper and St. Louis shouldn't be on this team. Spezza, Staal and Crosby should.

I dont get the knock on doan, hes been consistently one of our best forwards and by far our most physical.

On the broader theme of this thread though.
You are all caught up in the hype of how many superstars Canada has at its disposal, but honestly if you look at this team its teamwork getting us down, not the individual skills. Gretzky tried to bring in some role players like in years past but it hasnt materialized as of yet. Adding in a bunch of hotshot rookies who tear up the scoring charts could have helped but we would be having the same problems.
You cant just make it as simple as "if we had this guy it would be no contest and wed win hands down in 15-0 cakewalks." Did Staal, Spezza, et al deserve a roster spot? Yes they did. But we cant swap them in now. But isolating single players as the cause of canada's stumble is dumb (Unless your blaming mccabe, i hate that guy).

Infact, ill make an argument right now that we need a couple more guys along the lines of kris draper and shane doan. This teem is lacking spark. I dont know why in gods name we dont have a checking unit. Smyth - Drapes - Doan would be an unreal checking line that could crank the intensity up with some hitting and suffocating defensive play. I feel the lack of physical play is a result of a missing 66 in the dressing room cause even on his worst days, mario still could throw a hit if need be and didnt back down from physical play. The world cup, for instance, he was a physical force and it was electric through the lineup. Lecavalier was laying people out!

In all, this team just has to come together and simplify their game down to a hardworking, hitting, physical team thats defense first. Some more disciplined stick work would also help. Once you get your own end taken care of, the goals will come and once this team starts rolling on offense, theres not another team in the tournament that shouldnt be scared shitless.