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That is a good point. I don't think Crosby was the answer. Most of his points against pro players have been coming on the power play and if he was on Team Canada it's unrealistic to have expected him to be the focal point of the power play, and that's his strong point -- power play production by being the quarterback.
Zaddik said:
First of all I have nothing against Bertuzzi. Granted, I have only seen him a couple of times in this tournament and he has not impressed me like I said. I think he's not playing up to his potential currently (as the whole team Canada isn't). I expected more from him and was a little surprised to see people bash him so much for makin the team. I think he was invisible today against Finland, meybe he hurt himself? I wouldn't take him off the team, I just said he hasn't impressed me so far.
BlueAndWhite
Registered User
Buffaloed said:
Team Canada took a similar all star team to the last Olympics and they fared pretty well.
I don't think the composition of the team is the problem. The players plainly put are not playing the way they can play.
It's not just a case of a bunch of guys trying to do things on their own and not working within a team. At times, sad as it seems - it seems like a bunch of guys trying to do as little as possible, be it on their own or in a team structure.
Simple like this...Canada took too many experienced players and left out players like Crosby,Spezza...and some Staal is totally tourist in this tournament.
But there is still playoff-rounds and Canada still have change!
But there is still playoff-rounds and Canada still have change!
Gilles Meloche
I Moe I Moe
McCabe
I totally agree....as a Leaf fan I did not even want him on the team...he makes one bonehead mistake every game guranteed.....I know Phaneuf is young but I would have loved to have seen him in McCabe's spot
nneate said:
I totally agree....as a Leaf fan I did not even want him on the team...he makes one bonehead mistake every game guranteed.....I know Phaneuf is young but I would have loved to have seen him in McCabe's spot
i think the problem lies in philosophy: taking a combination of the best players with players who have been loyal in the past has been proven to not work thus far. i mean come on... i have nothing against lecavalier or st. louis but they haven't exactly been spectacular since their stanley cup run, which was what got them in this position.
it should be plain and simple: take the players who've been having a great season(s). players that management knows can perform under these tight circumstances could be exempt despite their season.
it should be plain and simple: take the players who've been having a great season(s). players that management knows can perform under these tight circumstances could be exempt despite their season.
Make #89 said:
there you go, the whole team was flat on those two games. i'm not surprised that you were not impressed by him.
BlueAndWhite
Registered User
Zaddik said:
I didn't hear anyone question that philosophy in Salt Lake.
If Marc Chouinard was still close to the league leaders when they picked the team - would you have picked him ?
Simply taking the players who are having great seasons lead to Rob Zamuner being on the 1998 Olympic team (he was coming off his best NHL season by far with 50 points in 82 games, and was playing well heading into the Nagano games).
I think Kariya should have replaced either Nash or St.Louis.
He is a better player than both of them. He has much more success in International competition than both of them. He is more experienced and clutch than both of them.
Although, with St.Louis, it is debatable because he has won the Stanley Cup and the Art Ross Trophy. Nash though? No question Kariya should have been picked before him.
He is a better player than both of them. He has much more success in International competition than both of them. He is more experienced and clutch than both of them.
Although, with St.Louis, it is debatable because he has won the Stanley Cup and the Art Ross Trophy. Nash though? No question Kariya should have been picked before him.
I agree on that Bertuzzi has been one of the best forwards on Canada. I dont like McCabe but I cant judge him fairly because he barely plays even on the PP and therefore can never use his amazing shot. When he tried his stick broke and some people laughed. 
I felt bad for him. But I really want Kariya on this team. He was fantastic in SLC and I think hes better than St.Louis.
I felt bad for him. But I really want Kariya on this team. He was fantastic in SLC and I think hes better than St.Louis.BlueAndWhite said:
so say, for example, not taking spezza would have been a great idea? with lecavalier over him? come on. i know he's young but he will not be shouldering the blunt of the pressure, which is how you introduce the international tournament to younger players.
and marc choinard? was that a joke? he was hot, but i knew he wasn't goign to exactly light up the league for the long term.
Zaddik said:
It's NOT just a matter of taking players who are having a great season- if that was the only criteria, then you would not even need a braintrust to select the team- just have someone call all those players with the highest stats and you would have the team. It does not work that way- you need a combination of players who are having a good season, along with other players for various roles like grinders and checkers, etc. Also, you have to have players with experience in these international settings like the Olympics and World Cup on the roster too. It is a careful balance of a lot of factors along with praying for team chemistry to set in once you start playing. Again, it is a roll of the dice. Bear in mind also teams like the Swiss have played together for some time so they have a lot more chemistry going for them right now than teams like Canada.
Zaddik said:
The thing with Spezza is that when he plays good (50% of the time) he is one of the best players in the world. But when he plays bad (the other 50%) he is sooo damn frustarting its not even funny.
Doan hasn't been a problem. Ask Forsberg about how tough Doan and Draper are to play against, after they dominated Forsberg at the 2003 Worlds.
Bottom line: the team as a whole has been a disappointment. The defence has struggled in their own zone, they're getting beat in a lot of races for the puck. They're also gettikng beat in corner battles. They aren't getting their shots through. But the forwards are not getting the job done. I can honestly say there isn't a forward who has met my expectations, except Draper and Doan, and that's because they've been doing their job.
This is very typical for Canadian teams at recent competitions played on the big ice and under international rules. They had tough starts at the 2002 Olys and the 2003 and 2004 Worlds. (2004 World Cup was played on NHL ice surfaces). It seems like it takes a while to adjust to the different nuances. They've always been able to make the necessary adjustments in time for the medal round.
If the flow chart from those tournaments continues, all of the complaints about Doan, Draper, the lack of production from the scorers and Quinn's coaching will be irrelevant.
If Canada does continue to play like this and loses in the quarter-final (they will not beat Slovakia, Russia or Sweden playing like this), and if NHL players continue at the Olys beyond 2010, there will have to be changes made to the system. And the solution will be to pick three or four of our best players currently playing in Europe, who can play in lesser roles, but bring a seemless transition to the international game.
Bottom line: the team as a whole has been a disappointment. The defence has struggled in their own zone, they're getting beat in a lot of races for the puck. They're also gettikng beat in corner battles. They aren't getting their shots through. But the forwards are not getting the job done. I can honestly say there isn't a forward who has met my expectations, except Draper and Doan, and that's because they've been doing their job.
This is very typical for Canadian teams at recent competitions played on the big ice and under international rules. They had tough starts at the 2002 Olys and the 2003 and 2004 Worlds. (2004 World Cup was played on NHL ice surfaces). It seems like it takes a while to adjust to the different nuances. They've always been able to make the necessary adjustments in time for the medal round.
If the flow chart from those tournaments continues, all of the complaints about Doan, Draper, the lack of production from the scorers and Quinn's coaching will be irrelevant.
If Canada does continue to play like this and loses in the quarter-final (they will not beat Slovakia, Russia or Sweden playing like this), and if NHL players continue at the Olys beyond 2010, there will have to be changes made to the system. And the solution will be to pick three or four of our best players currently playing in Europe, who can play in lesser roles, but bring a seemless transition to the international game.
No kidding. I mean, I heard about his "giveaway" on these boards in the Italy game and figured he'd ****ed up. Then I watched the replay, and, hay maybe its just these blue and white glasses, but I can't see how you possibly blame him for doing what he did.BlueAndWhite said:
Today I got to see my first game, and while he played limitted minutes and was by no means a defensive stalwart, he jump started a couple powerplays quite nicely with his limiteed minutes, forechecking, pinching and pulling some nice passes.
I'm not going to say that McCabe was great, or that Phaneuf isn't the more deserving selection (haven't seen enough of Pheneuf, and the way half of the defense was playing today, I'd say that some are bigger problems than McCabe at this point), but I will say that its kind of shocking how completely overblown people at HF make things.
I mean honestly, how in the world can a guy playing 10 minutes a game get this much heat?
puck57 said:
i am not saying you should forego grinders over highly skilled players who are better than them. i am just saying, loyalty should not take precident over performance currently.
St.Louis was mistake to pick-up to squad. Nash though is very potential threat to every country!
Some Gretzky though is above the law in Canada and nobody won`t to argue him. I still say Crosby&Spezza would be very good&hungry and they would be very good to chose Canada squad!
Some Gretzky though is above the law in Canada and nobody won`t to argue him. I still say Crosby&Spezza would be very good&hungry and they would be very good to chose Canada squad!
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