You are one of the only ones who believes this. Most posters (90% of posters in this forum and 99% of all non Russian posters) believe Russia is sliding and things do not look good for 2018. If you believe otherwise, good for you but you are swimming against the tide.
Canada's Golden Era
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You are one of the only ones who believes this. Most posters (90% of posters in this forum and 99% of all non Russian posters) believe Russia is sliding and things do not look good for 2018. If you believe otherwise, good for you but you are swimming against the tide.
Only those posters who are ill-informed believe Russia is sliding. They aren't aware of the introduction of the KHL and MHL, plus the upgrade in the VHL, all trends that can only improve the number and quality of prospects. They're entitled to their opinion, but they aren't looking at and evaluating what's actually going on. I have no way of knowing what the results will be in 2018, but I do know that the Russian team will have more depth and balance than they had this year. They won't be putting guys of the caliber of Anisimov, Kulyomin, Tereschenko, Voynov and Nikitin on the ice in Korea.
Fair enough. I agree you know more about Russian hockey than me. However, like most posters here, I don't see any young players available in 2018 that are near the same level as an aging Malkin, OV, Datsyuk and Kovalchuk.
Unless Russia starts producing some half-decent defensemen, they won't fair any better in 2016-2018 than they did in Sochi. Plus there's the lack of depth at forward (only four would make team Canada) and the problem of Russians not playing as a team.
....because Russia doesn't win them.
Every Russian fan would sing a different song if Russia had won in 1996/2004 or if they win in 2016.
Theokritos
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JackSlater
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These improvements should improve Russia's depth eventually. I think his point was that any improvements in Russia's depth will be somewhat offset by Russia's elite talent aging, at least in the short term. There are no Malkin or Ovechkin prospects for Russia right now (or any other country for that matter) and a Datsyukian development is always rare.
Russia didn't win, but USSR did win in 1981 pretty convincingly.
I think you have characterized the situation fairly and accurately. A team can always use another Malkin or Ovechkin, but for Russia, there is a greater need for depth at forward and defense.
canuck2010
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It was still WHA's version of the 1972 Series, and they were Canadian players... although obviously not the best possible Canada.
nor was the 72 team Canada's best.
nor was the 72 team Canada's best.
canuck2010
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I have been hearing these "only one best on best tournament win by USSR/Russia" comments a lot this year. Apparently, only a biased Canadian tournament was the only legitimate on
If you are talking about tournaments/series where the best Soviet players played the best Canadian players, there have been four since 72 - the Challenge Cup in 79 and the Canada Cups in 81, 84 and 87.
The Soviets won the first two by lopsided scores in the final games and lost the next two in one goal games. However, they would have probably won at least one of the Canada Cups they lost if the officiating and other things were not so embarrassingly biased for Canada.
When NHL players were allowed to play in the World Championships, this did not affect Soviet dominance.
Interesting how the period of dominance by US and Canada started when the USSR broke apart and the hockey program there collapsed or came close to it…
I don't see any mentions of the last 5 Olympic games by the way. Guess they don't count.
No more biased tournament in hockey than the so called World Championship has ever existed. Canadian teams were hosed many times. Bunny Ahearne and his crew of cheats looked after that.
How can you count the Challenge Cup series in 1979 as yardstick. Canada was an all star team not necessarily a team that would have represented Canada. Not all the players were Canadian. You don't think a team that has played together often has an advantage over a team brought together over a few days. Come on great real. By the way Canada and the USSR split 1 win apiece in the 1981 Canada Cup.
Canada has never been able to send it's best team to a World Championship. In 1977 so called pros were allowed to play the co called amateurs only because that was the cost of IIHF participation in the Canada Cup tourneys. Only Canadian players that were out of the playoffs could participate at the World Championship. It's interesting to note that as more Euro's play in the NHL and Stanley Cup playoffs the balance has shifted. Canada has won it's share of medals. More of a level playing field now isn't it.
The USSR could it's professionals to play in every tournament while the only other team that could beat them never had the same chance.
If you are talking about tournaments/series where the best Soviet players played the best Canadian players, there have been four since 72 - the Challenge Cup in 79 and the Canada Cups in 81, 84 and 87.
The Soviets won the first two by lopsided scores in the final games and lost the next two in one goal games. However, they would have probably won at least one of the Canada Cups they lost if the officiating and other things were not so embarrassingly biased for Canada.
When NHL players were allowed to play in the World Championships, this did not affect Soviet dominance.
Interesting how the period of dominance by US and Canada started when the USSR broke apart and the hockey program there collapsed or came close to it…
I don't see any mentions of the last 5 Olympic games by the way. Guess they don't count.
No more biased tournament in hockey than the so called World Championship has ever existed. Canadian teams were hosed many times. Bunny Ahearne and his crew of cheats looked after that.
How can you count the Challenge Cup series in 1979 as yardstick. Canada was an all star team not necessarily a team that would have represented Canada. Not all the players were Canadian. You don't think a team that has played together often has an advantage over a team brought together over a few days. Come on great real. By the way Canada and the USSR split 1 win apiece in the 1981 Canada Cup.
Canada has never been able to send it's best team to a World Championship. In 1977 so called pros were allowed to play the co called amateurs only because that was the cost of IIHF participation in the Canada Cup tourneys. Only Canadian players that were out of the playoffs could participate at the World Championship. It's interesting to note that as more Euro's play in the NHL and Stanley Cup playoffs the balance has shifted. Canada has won it's share of medals. More of a level playing field now isn't it.
The USSR could it's professionals to play in every tournament while the only other team that could beat them never had the same chance.
I don't much disagree with what you are saying. I would say that in the Challenge Cup, all but two Swedish players, Nillson and Hedberg, were Canadian, and all the best Canadian players of that period were there.
If I was going to break down periods of time...
Canada 1920 - 1980
Russia 1981- 1986
Canada 1987 - 1995
Canada 2002 - 2018
Canada 1920 - 1980
Russia 1981- 1986
Canada 1987 - 1995
Canada 2002 - 2018
look on the previous page, his reply was the bottom part of the post, quote was missing around text at the top
VMBM
Hansel?!
Nor was the Soviet team, at least after Kharlamov was injured. Nor was the Soviet team in the 1976 Canada Cup. Nor in the 1991 Canada Cup.
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Honestly on the small ice surface, any nhl team except the buffalo sabres would beat the best khl team 7-0, but no khl team will EVER play an exhibition on our ice because they already know the results
Yes they were, you sent your best rosters and even tried to bribe the refs and we still won..
JackSlater
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Soviet teams did extremely well against NHL opposition in the 1970s and 1980s. Not identical situations, but similar.
That poster isn't Russian, and it is true that the Soviet teams in those years were missing many significant players. I also have no idea what bribing the USSR tried with Canada Cup referees. It obviously didn't amount to much.
NHL and KHL teams have played against each other 3 times, once in 2008 and twice in 2010. The NHL won 2 and the KHL won 1, but all three games were very close (total goals were NHL 10-KHL 9). All 3 games were played in Europe, but it is likely that if they do play each other again in NA, the scores won't be as one-sided as you project.
canuck2010
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I agree to a point but why was that especially in 1976? I think they knew that couldn't beat a Canadian team that was really ready for them.
If you take the entire span, I would tend to agree even if the Soviet Union / Russia has won 27 IIHF championships to 24 by Canada.
However, in 1980 the USA beat the Soviets and then Finland to win the Olympic Gold medal. Canada came in fifth that year.
In 1960, the USA won gold, beating Canada (silver) and all of the other top 4 teams in the world. The USA team also won the IIHF championship in 1960, since the Olympics was substituted in their place.
So it wasn't every year that Canada was on top, just overall. You have a few more years to reach 2018.
The US won 2 Olympic gold medals, 6 silvers and 2 IIHF World Championships in 1933 and 1960 during that time span.
Canada won 6 goals and 2 silvers with 19 IIHF World Championships in 60 years.
The Soviet Union won 6 gold medals and a silver plus 19 IIHF World Championships from 1954 to 1984 in 30 years.
You would be more convincing with 1920 to 1952 when Canada won 6 of 7 gold medals and a silver, plus 15 IIHF World Championships.
Things like stick handling and skating also depend on teamwork?
Are you counting all the Canada/World Cups as "best on best" again?
So when Soviet club teams played NHL teams or the Soviet national team played Canada and the US in the Canada Cups it was not a level playing field in that the Soviets had an advantage?
It does not take just a few months to adjust to the NHL game, when you are trained to play differently.
I am talking about the Soviet period.
This was supposed to be the "Series of the Century." You did not hear the pre-series hype. All the best Canadian players were there. Preparation time was not supposed to have been a problem as many lines were composed of teammates. After it was over, Canadian players and media took the loss as a blow to Canadian hockey.
In 1984 too...
You were implying that they beat up on amateurs. Canada still sent some very strong teams with NHL stars to the WCs since 1977, but as I said this did not decrease Soviet dominance.
Don't blame the Soviets for that. And Canada was not the only team that could beat them.
Zine
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A power struggle between Kulagin and Tikhonov resulted in many players being left off the 1976 team; Tretiak is on record as saying such.
Imo most Canadians have a false belief that USSR was a finely tuned, cohesive, well-oiled team. Quite often it was just the opposite.
If we could turn back time and have a Best on Best, I have no doubt Canada would have dominated up until 1980.
You must have a very short memory. Canada wasn't dominating at all in the group stage. They had a convincing win over the US, but dominating? That's a bit of a stretch. They did manage to shut down Sweden in the finals. However, it was a decimated swedish team, missing it's top 3 centers.
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