WJC: Canada 2018 Roster Talk

[jj cale]

This is fine to ask for, though people in recent posts also want Canada's most physically engaged players to be punished by Ducharme. It would be great if Canada could throw out seven Ray Bourque clones on defence who could all skate, pass, shoot and dominate physically. Those guys aren't there though. Canada has skaters and puck movers on defence and they just aren't going to be overly physical. I do think that they would be far more effective against the American team on an indoor rink. I also think that Hockey Canada has gone too far toward focusing on puck moving in defence to the detriment of physical play. That was always an edge for Canada, especially at the junior level. It's mostly gone now.

I don't think they need to be ray bourque, but there is no excuse for them not taking the body and battling hard, that is within their control whether they are bourque or not, none of the American defensemen are bourque either but they were doing it as best they could. You just ask for effort is all, not standing around mildly waving a stick waiting for the opponents next move.

And yes, they have gone too far focusing on puck moving to the detriment of physical play, that has become very clear.

These guys gotta bear down at crucial times, they didn't yesterday, way too passive and it cost them the game.

 

[jj cale]

Clague is relied on too heavily. He just doesn't seem to think very well. Fabbro would be my go to guy if healthy.. I like his game... Foote has looked better as this goes on as well. Bean is borderline... Makar , I love his raw ability, but I have not seen enough of him (which seems to be the complaint). I think Timmins is fine where he is and Mete has been more good than bad, but not perfect.

Its hard to pull somebody out, but imo Batherson should be playing more .. at least regularly.. He battles, He creates, .. He should play more and it should be up the lineup.

Agreed, he needs more minutes.

 

[PecnoTrunk]

I don't think they need to be ray bourque, but there is no excuse for them not taking the body and battling hard, that is within their control whether they are bourque or not, none of the American defensemen are bourque either but they were doing it as best they could. You just ask for effort is all, not standing around mildly waving a stick waiting for the opponents next move.

And yes, they have gone too far focusing on puck moving to the detriment of physical play, that has become very clear.

These guys gotta bear down at crucial times, they didn't yesterday, way too passive and it cost them the game.

I've been saying this for that last couple of years about mean mother f***ckers

We need these types of guys in the team

We need net presence and net clearers

Look at the Olympic team. They had guys like Weber , benn , and the 2 guys from Anaheim lol who can crush and clear

We can't just have puck movers d skaters. But over here on hf boards all they want is skaters puck movers

In any case in my opinion the snow on the ice slowed down team Canada and the Americans took advantage of a slow down of the Canadian squad

It will be different indoors I'm 100% sure

Anyways this was perfect to lose now

 

[jj cale]

I've been saying this for that last couple of years about mean mother f***ckers

We need these types of guys in the team

We need net presence and net clearers

Look at the Olympic team. They had guys like Weber , benn , and the 2 guys from Anaheim lol who can crush and clear

We can't just have puck movers d skaters. But over here on hf boards all they want is skaters puck movers

In any case in my opinion the snow on the ice slowed down team Canada and the Americans took advantage of a slow down of the Canadian squad

It will be different indoors I'm 100% sure

Anyways this was perfect to lose now

I know you have and it is not unwarranted. But I think these guys can do that sort of thing well enough if they would just decide to do it, what we saw yesterday is inexcusable. They don't have to be Rob Blake and Adam Foote but they have to engage in the basics as best they can. I've watched all the teams here now, there are no juggernauts and certainly that U.S team isn't.If our guys put in the effort in terms of battling for the puck there is no team here they cannot beat. We had that game in our grasp and we just gave it away to them, simple as that.

It's just willingness to engage hard and not sit back, if they do that this team would be fine. They won't win gold playing the way they did in the 3rd period yesterday, they may not even medal with effort like that.

 

[Appleyard]

Is this the case? I don't watch WHL hockey and I was absolutely astounded at how much better his stats are than everyone else

It was in previous years... Everett played a Hitchcock style.

But it has not been the case this season, he sees quite a lot of shots after the coaching and style change of the team. The team is not that good either.

 

[Snippit]

I've been a little disappointed in Thomas's game.

He was good against Finland but looked a bit off the pace against the USA.

I expect more from him.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Makar-Foot been our 2 best D...

Clague is bang-on avg. Fabbro is not 100% Bean is Bean... Mete a decent guy vs garbage team but is over-rated vs good teams.

Hart is looking avg at Internatiional level... playing the TRAP in Everett give him insane stats

Is this the case? I don't watch WHL hockey and I was absolutely astounded at how much better his stats are than everyone else

It was in previous years... Everett played a Hitchcock style.

But it has not been the case this season, he sees quite a lot of shots after the coaching and style change of the team. The team is not that good either.

Hart's numbers are inflated by Everett's defensive system but he is still undoubtedly the best goalie in the CHL and it's not even close. And I'm not sure how Everett could be considered "not that good" when they're 5th in the WHL and have outscored their opponents 27-10 in their last 5 games (without Hart at that). The team scores goals. It's not like they have to win every game 1-0. He's just the cherry on top of a very talented team.

His ability can't be summed up in 2 games of an international tournament playing with a team he's never played with, facing players he's never played against. That'd be like if he lost his first AHL game and everyone started calling him a bust.

 

[cgf]

Hockey Canada generally pimps for the CHL, they don't like it when their go to guys are NCAA players. So, unless the player has a long established history with Hockey Canada (Towes) coming up through the various tournaments, it will be tough.

Especially with Mete doing so well and Bean having dirt on Hockey Canada management leading Ducharme to try to force the bigger n more defensive-focused RHDs into the lineup. As an Avs fan I'm just glad that Mete & Timmins clicked, because trying to clean up for Bean would've badly exposed Timmins' skating. Whereas next Mete he can just play his game and validate those who were calling for him to go in the 1st round last spring.

First of all basically everyone that goes the NCAA route should be ignored because they are much worse players and not good enough to play for Team Canada. I mean I know everyone can scream Toews but that is basically the one example to use while there are countless examples of guys from the CHL route.

Plus I would always question the decision making of a guy that goes the NCAA route. If they are dumb enough to make that decision can you trust them to make the right decision on the ice?

If regular guys with no hockey aspirations beyond college want to go that route more power to them but for a guy that wants to be at the NHL or Team Canada level to go that route I am more than fine with saying too bad we don't want or need you as we have better players coming out of the CHL every day.

So it's not just the soccer board where you are like this, huh?

 

[Chainshot]

First of all basically everyone that goes the NCAA route should be ignored because they are much worse players and not good enough to play for Team Canada. I mean I know everyone can scream Toews but that is basically the one example to use while there are countless examples of guys from the CHL route.

Plus I would always question the decision making of a guy that goes the NCAA route. If they are dumb enough to make that decision can you trust them to make the right decision on the ice?

If regular guys with no hockey aspirations beyond college want to go that route more power to them but for a guy that wants to be at the NHL or Team Canada level to go that route I am more than fine with saying too bad we don't want or need you as we have better players coming out of the CHL every day.

That's a pretty myopic take on finding contributors to win tournaments.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I missed it in last night's broadcast, wasn't paying that much attention to it, but kudos to the Team Canada fan with the best fan sign of the tournament "Dude. Where's Makar?"

just genius.

 

[Appleyard]

Hart's numbers are inflated by Everett's defensive system but he is still undoubtedly the best goalie in the CHL and it's not even close. And I'm not sure how Everett could be considered "not that good" when they're 5th in the WHL and have outscored their opponents 27-10 in their last 5 games (without Hart at that). The team scores goals. It's not like they have to win every game 1-0. He's just the cherry on top of a very talented team.

His ability can't be summed up in 2 games of an international tournament playing with a team he's never played with, facing players he's never played against. That'd be like if he lost his first AHL game and everyone started calling him a bust.

However, of the 32 goalies with 15+ games played on the season Hart has faced the 7th most SA/60 of any.

33.78 SA/60.

Previous years it was down under 30.

Everett are not exactly playing Hitchcock hockey. In previous years, yes, his stats were for sure helped by the system, but not half as much this year.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I missed it in last night's broadcast, wasn't paying that much attention to it, but kudos to the Team Canada fan with the best fan sign of the tournament "Dude. Where's Makar?"

just genius.

There's a poster here on HF with that handle -- has had it for a while. Genius imitating genius?

I'm having a very "meh" response to this year's edition of TC. They should medal, and they're a good all-round team, but they don't have the star power, offensive flair or defensive capabilities of some of the great teams of years past. Just feels a bit odd feeling this disconnected from one of my favourite tournaments this time round.

 

[MatthewFlames]

First of all basically everyone that goes the NCAA route should be ignored because they are much worse players and not good enough to play for Team Canada. I mean I know everyone can scream Toews but that is basically the one example to use while there are countless examples of guys from the CHL route.

Plus I would always question the decision making of a guy that goes the NCAA route. If they are dumb enough to make that decision can you trust them to make the right decision on the ice?

If regular guys with no hockey aspirations beyond college want to go that route more power to them but for a guy that wants to be at the NHL or Team Canada level to go that route I am more than fine with saying too bad we don't want or need you as we have better players coming out of the CHL every day.

You are totally wrong. There are a ton of great Canadian players in the NHL as full time regulars, stars, Stanley Cup winners, who all played tier two junior and went to the NCAA, while a ton of the best CHL/WJC players ever have never even made the NHL on a full time basis.

There are many reasons why a more talented player may want to go the NCAA route, including education (right, choosing a backup plan is stupid, got it), and physical development, and the NHL is literally full of NCAA players from multiple countries.

Literally 32% of all NHL players are NCAA developed. That's over 300.

NHL Features Record Number, Percentage of NCAA Alumni - College Hockey, Inc.

And best of all, the fricking Stanley Cup Champions have more NCAA players than CHL players. Or are they dumb too?

 

[EXTRAS]

Makar hasn't impressed me much.

 

[Baxterman]

You are totally wrong. There are a ton of great Canadian players in the NHL as full time regulars, stars, Stanley Cup winners, who all played tier two junior and went to the NCAA, while a ton of the best CHL/WJC players ever have never even made the NHL on a full time basis.

There are many reasons why a more talented player may want to go the NCAA route, including education (right, choosing a backup plan is stupid, got it), and physical development, and the NHL is literally full of NCAA players from multiple countries.

Literally 32% of all NHL players are NCAA developed. That's over 300.

NHL Features Record Number, Percentage of NCAA Alumni - College Hockey, Inc.

And best of all, the fricking Stanley Cup Champions have more NCAA players than CHL players. Or are they dumb too?

32% isn't very high and how many of those are Canadians versus Americans?

As for the Penguins- Crosby, Malkin, Murray by far the most important players (throw in Fleury as well for his play when Murray was injured) and none went to the NCAA so its great that they have 4th line fillers in there but the main guys all came from CHL or in Malkins case Europe.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Makar hasn't impressed me much.

He’s been pretty bad.

 

[1Gold Standard]

You are totally wrong. There are a ton of great Canadian players in the NHL as full time regulars, stars, Stanley Cup winners, who all played tier two junior and went to the NCAA, while a ton of the best CHL/WJC players ever have never even made the NHL on a full time basis.

There are many reasons why a more talented player may want to go the NCAA route, including education (right, choosing a backup plan is stupid, got it), and physical development, and the NHL is literally full of NCAA players from multiple countries.

Literally 32% of all NHL players are NCAA developed. That's over 300.

NHL Features Record Number, Percentage of NCAA Alumni - College Hockey, Inc.

And best of all, the fricking Stanley Cup Champions have more NCAA players than CHL players. Or are they dumb too?

I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into a NCAA/CHL crapfest. I'm so tired of those....

but I will say this. Had Team Canada invited Brandon Montour and Mike Matheson to the 2014 Malmo, Sweden tournament instead of ....CHL standouts Griffith Reinhart and Derrick Pouliot, we just may have fared a little better in that tourney...Hockey Canada ignores Canadian NCAA players to their own detriment. and that's disappointing.

I was hoping to see Montour suit up this spring at the WHC in Denmark, since Anaheim seems not to be a playoff team...but he's an RFA.

As for Matheson...he's already played in 2 WHC...if he's on board for a 3rd. this spring, then that's a bonus.

I hope this tread doesn't go off the rails.

 

[JackSlater]

Makar hasn't impressed me much.

Hi Dominique, it's nice enough of you to post here but you really should focus on preparing the team for the elimination games.

I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into a NCAA/CHL crapfest. I'm so tired of those....

but I will say this. Had Team Canada invited Brandon Montour and Mike Matheson to the 2014 Malmo, Sweden tournament instead of ....CHL standouts Griffith Reinhart and Derrick Pouliot, we just may have faired a little better in that tourney...Hockey Canada ignores Canadian NCAA players to their own detriment. and that's disappointing.

I was hoping to see Montour suit up this spring at the WHC in Denmark, since Anaheim seems not to be a playoff team...but he's an RFA.

As for Matheson...he's already played in 2 WHC...if he's on board for a 3rd. this spring, then that's a bonus.

I hope this tread doesn't go off the rails.

Matheson clearly, in retrospect, should have made that team, but not at the expense of Pouliot. Pouliot was Canada's best defenceman in 2014. That isn't saying so much considering how weak that team was.There are several tournaments this decade that I consider lost opportunities for Canada, but 2014 is not one of them.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Hi Dominique, it's nice enough of you to post here but you really should focus on preparing the team for the elimination games.



Matheson clearly, in retrospect, should have made that team, but not at the expense of Pouliot. Pouliot was Canada's best defenceman in 2014. That isn't saying so much considering how weak that team was.There are several tournaments this decade that I consider lost opportunities for Canada, but 2014 is not one of them.

Adam Pelech then...take your pick. but I get your point.

more critical for the Malmo team is that it was missing Monahan. + Hockey Canada was doing a little sacrificing for the sake of the 2015 Toronto/Montreal tournament. something they just had to win...no ifs, buts or ands about it.

 

[Heldig]

Feel bad for Steenburgen...only forward without a goal. Hope he can pot some in the playoff round.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Feel bad for Steenburgen...only forward without a goal. Hope he can pot some in the playoff round.

ya, I was kinda hoping for a 5th. round surprise....but, it looks as though it's not going to happen.

 

[JackSlater]

Adam Pelech then...take your pick. but I get your point.

more critical for the Malmo team is that it was missing Monahan. + Hockey Canada was doing a little sacrificing for the sake of the 2015 Toronto/Montreal tournament. something they just had to win...no ifs, buts or ands about it.

2014 is a year that I think Canada would have been hard pressed to win even with every available player there. The 2012 draft was just horrible for Canada. It did decently set the table for 2015 though as many prominent 2014 players returned.

 

[Avs425]

He’s been pretty bad.

Makar has 3 points in 4 games, is the only D to have a goal (2), and has the best zone clears on all others all while playing as the 7th defensemen. He has been one of our best.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Makar has 3 points in 4 games, is the only D to have a goal (2), and has the best zone clears on all others all while playing as the 7th defensemen. He has been one of our best.

Wasn’t serious. I’ve been one of Makar’s largest supporters on here.

He also has 4 points btw.

 

[Avs425]

Wasn’t serious. I’ve been one of Makar’s largest supporters on here.

Haha ok right on, my bad.