Can you believe it ?

[Highlander23]

You're talking about different things

Clarkson was brought in to be a top 6 forward and score 20-25 goals. unlikely anyone on the Marlies was doing that. As it turned out Clarkson failed.

Raymond was a gift and did his job. He will want a raise, but he's a guy you let walk and hopefully have a kid ready to fill that role.

Don't get me started on letting players walk for nothing

 

[Mess]

Raymond was a gift and did his job. He will want a raise, but he's a guy you let walk and hopefully have a kid ready to fill that role.

Raymond recorded 19 goals and 45 points last year for $1 mil cap.

Which current player in the system is capable of coming up and providing similar offense for similar cap usage?.

Therein lies the Leafs problem of a prospect system not capable of contributing on par to a vet and therefore the reason a player like Raymond is brought in to fill a roster spot instead of a Marlie.

Strong prospect systems force vets out and come in to replace them at better cap prices.

 

[Purity*]

Yeah? Already knew all of this. We've been trying this ********* win-now accelerated rebuild (or whatever the **** they call it ) and it's complete garbage. It was complete garbage the moment we traded 2 1sts for Phil Kessel. We should have just stuck with the full rebuild.

Yeah, it's no secret that drafted/developed players = success. Instead, we go this ********* route of trading/overpaying which ****s our cap up and prevents our current young players from getting any chances in the league.


That's why I want to tank for McDavid next year, IT'S ABOUT ****ING TIME WE DRAFT A FRANCHISE PLAYER.

 

[barilko05]

Raymond recorded 19 goals and 45 points last year for $1 mil cap.

Which current player in the system is capable of coming up and providing similar offense for similar cap usage?.

We were never allowed to find out because all the call-ups ended up playing 3 to 5 minutes on the 4th line for 3 or 4 games until they were deemed "not worthy" and sent back down the Gardiner to the Ricoh. Meanwhile, Uncle Randy let Mason Raymond do his Sergei Berezin impression, playing keepaway all season long on the 2nd and 3rd line.

 

[leafs in five]

oh man, now you put the secret to success out there for all the NHL GMs to see... you should have just sent DN an email and let him in on how your figured this out.

hope no one else sees it...

v. clever post!!!

 

[The CyNick]

With the money and term that was given to Clarkson, there should have been some sort of 'out clause' in our favor. Nonis should never have agreed to the limited NTC and NMC!!!

Too bad we're more than likely stuck with Clarkson for the duration of his contract.

That's just ignoring the situation last summer.

Clarkson was basically the star of the free agent class. He had MANY suitors. As a result he could dictate the terms in his own favor. Now, you can argue acquiring a power forward coming off essentially back to back 30 goal seasons was a mistake, but you can't argue what it cost. In order to acquire him the cost was what it was.

It's like buying a corvette, then being upset when it breaks down in 6 months and saying you should have bought the corvette at Focus prices. It's just not happening

 

[The CyNick]

Don't get me started on letting players walk for nothing

I understand that concern. But at the deadline we were in the thick of the playoff race. It's unrealistic to expect teams to dump key contributors unless you are getting current roster players back. I know it might have been better long term to trade guys like Bolland, Kulemin, and Raymond, but it's tough to do when coaches and GMs are fighting to keep their jobs

 

[The CyNick]

Raymond recorded 19 goals and 45 points last year for $1 mil cap.

Which current player in the system is capable of coming up and providing similar offense for similar cap usage?.

Therein lies the Leafs problem of a prospect system not capable of contributing on par to a vet and therefore the reason a player like Raymond is brought in to fill a roster spot instead of a Marlie.

Strong prospect systems force vets out and come in to replace them at better cap prices.

not many rooks come in and drop 20 in the NHL. Raymond will cost way more than a million. so it comes down to do you go after another vet or do you open the spot for someone in the organization. I don't think there is one right answer to that.

 

[The CyNick]

Yeah? Already knew all of this. We've been trying this ********* win-now accelerated rebuild (or whatever the **** they call it ) and it's complete garbage. It was complete garbage the moment we traded 2 1sts for Phil Kessel. We should have just stuck with the full rebuild.

Yeah, it's no secret that drafted/developed players = success. Instead, we go this ********* route of trading/overpaying which ****s our cap up and prevents our current young players from getting any chances in the league.


That's why I want to tank for McDavid next year, IT'S ABOUT ****ING TIME WE DRAFT A FRANCHISE PLAYER.

what does the team look like today if the mentality was to not go after Kessel? How many cups would we have?

 

[Purity*]

what does the team look like today if the mentality was to not go after Kessel? How many cups would we have?

What kind of a freaking question is that? I don't have a crystal ball and I can't predict the future.

What I do know is that Boston got 2 premium young players with those picks, both of which have seen way more playoff action than Phil Kessel. Hamilton/Seguin could have started an excellent rebuild.

 

[Nithoniniel]

It's not a choice between either using homegrown talents or UFA on the market. The reason we have few players developed that way is because we had an empty prospect cupboard for a long time. When you don't have alternatives in your organisation depth, you look to UFA. Toronto has been forced to do that.

Now we have alternatives that might fill some spots, but that doesn't mean we won't sign anyone. Management might still feel like the player would develop better in the AHL, and sign a player as a stop gap. They might feel that there is an option on the market that would be a perfect fit and the difference in impact might be worth keeping the young player down.

You don't have to pick sides as some seem to want. You judge need from situation to situation, depending on the options in the system and their needs, what alternatives there are on the market and what needs we have on the club roster.

It's like with our fourth line last year. Carlyle most likely felt that there were no players, outside Jay, that he would be comfortable with playing substantial minutes. And in a situation where you play the fourth for a very limited amount of time, you might as well put Orr in there while letting D'Amigo get a better spot for development in the AHL.

 

[hotpaws]

what does the team look like today if the mentality was to not go after Kessel? How many cups would we have?

We've won zero with him so it couldn't be any freaking lower without him .

 

[hotpaws]

That's just ignoring the situation last summer.

Clarkson was basically the star of the free agent class. He had MANY suitors. As a result he could dictate the terms in his own favor. Now, you can argue acquiring a power forward coming off essentially back to back 30 goal seasons was a mistake, but you can't argue what it cost. In order to acquire him the cost was what it was.

It's like buying a corvette, then being upset when it breaks down in 6 months and saying you should have bought the corvette at Focus prices. It's just not happening

Maybe Nonis shouldn't have ignored his entire body of work since he's been in the league and the fact he can't stand on his skates .

Also competing with the tards of the league like Edm for the services of a ufa should have set off alarm bells that maybe signing this guy isn't a good idea .

 

[achtungbaby]

Carlyle is still the coach and I don't see him giving them worthwhile minutes. Though I'd love to see the young guys given a chance.

Carlye is likely fighting for his job. I don't know if that makes him do what management wants (develop young players) or if he tries to win as much as possible, damned the prospects.

 

[achtungbaby]

what does the team look like today if the mentality was to not go after Kessel? How many cups would we have?

Maybe we should have asked ourselves that question 6 years ago. Nobody was promising cups back then. Some of us wanted a rebuild and for management to acknowledge that adding some one dimensional pieces wasn't going to get this team anywhere but nobody ever went broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Al14]

That's just ignoring the situation last summer.

Clarkson was basically the star of the free agent class. He had MANY suitors. As a result he could dictate the terms in his own favor. Now, you can argue acquiring a power forward coming off essentially back to back 30 goal seasons was a mistake, but you can't argue what it cost. In order to acquire him the cost was what it was.

It's like buying a corvette, then being upset when it breaks down in 6 months and saying you should have bought the corvette at Focus prices. It's just not happening

Then Nonis, and Company, should have let him sign elsewhere!!! All Clarkson is worth is FOCUS money! If he was worth what Nonis offered, don't you think the Devils would have tried to keep him?

 

[Al14]

Maybe Nonis shouldn't have ignored his entire body of work since he's been in the league and the fact he can't stand on his skates .

Also competing with the tards of the league like Edm for the services of a ufa should have set off alarm bells that maybe signing this guy isn't a good idea .

Exactly! That contract totally exposes our scouts as failures IMHO.

 

[achtungbaby]

Then Nonis, and Company, should have let him sign elsewhere!!! All Clarkson is worth is FOCUS money! If he was worth what Nonis offered, don't you think the Devils would have tried to keep him?

We always act like we're smarter then the average bear around these parts. "Team X doesn't want this player? We'll take him, please take our draft picks, prospects and money. Hahaha, what a steal! Who cares if we win or not, look at this guy score goals. Look at this other guy hit people. And to think we got them for next to nothing!"

 

[The CyNick]

What kind of a freaking question is that? I don't have a crystal ball and I can't predict the future.

What I do know is that Boston got 2 premium young players with those picks, both of which have seen way more playoff action than Phil Kessel. Hamilton/Seguin could have started an excellent rebuild.

So Dale Weise is better than Ovechkin this year?

You didn't like the Kessel trade, that's cool. But if we had those three picks there's no way to guarantee the net result would have been a better team.

Boston traded Kessel, they also traded Seguin, doesn't mean either is a bad player.

 

[achtungbaby]

So Dale Weise is better than Ovechkin this year?

You didn't like the Kessel trade, that's cool. But if we had those three picks there's no way to guarantee the net result would have been a better team.

Boston traded Kessel, they also traded Seguin, doesn't mean either is a bad player.

You love your guarantees don't you? The current method we've been using for the past 5 years isn't guaranteed either, why aren't you mad about that??

 

[The CyNick]

We've won zero with him so it couldn't be any freaking lower without him .

not Cups wise, but in terms of health of the organizing we could have been better or worse. impossible to know. I just don't like when people look at the Kessel move in isolation. We may not have Kessel but we may also not have JVR, Bernier, or Lupul. We may have instead acquired some stiffs that never turned into anything.

 

[The CyNick]

Maybe Nonis shouldn't have ignored his entire body of work since he's been in the league and the fact he can't stand on his skates .

Also competing with the tards of the league like Edm for the services of a ufa should have set off alarm bells that maybe signing this guy isn't a good idea .

So you think it was only us and Edmonton in on Clarkson? wow.

 

[The CyNick]

Maybe we should have asked ourselves that question 6 years ago. Nobody was promising cups back then. Some of us wanted a rebuild and for management to acknowledge that adding some one dimensional pieces wasn't going to get this team anywhere but nobody ever went broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

So are you saying we should never acquire a guy who gets a point of game?

Lots of teams have one dimensional scorers. You put plugs around him to make the team better

 

[The CyNick]

Then Nonis, and Company, should have let him sign elsewhere!!! All Clarkson is worth is FOCUS money! If he was worth what Nonis offered, don't you think the Devils would have tried to keep him?

I think the bidding got too high for Jersey. But multiple teams were apparently offering as much as the Leafs were

 

[The CyNick]

We always act like we're smarter then the average bear around these parts. "Team X doesn't want this player? We'll take him, please take our draft picks, prospects and money. Hahaha, what a steal! Who cares if we win or not, look at this guy score goals. Look at this other guy hit people. And to think we got them for next to nothing!"

So was it smart for Boston to sign Chara? Ottawa didn't sign him largely because they felt Redden was the guy. so in essence Ottawa dumped Chara.

Oh wait, I get it. In hindsight Chara had a great career in Boston so it was a good move. Got it.