Can somebody tell me why Dick Duff is in the HOF?

[Otto]

Because he played in Toronto and was/is (is he dead?) friends with half the selection committee.

No he is not dead

 

[Crosbyfan]

I think if someone had to be voted out due to lack of credentials (not for character reasons), he would win in a landslide.

Great hockey player, but they would probably have to double the HOF inductees to get him in on merit.

 

[BM67]

Clutch scoring.

In his 9 Finals, his team won 27 games. He scored 3 GWGs and assisted on 9 more. He also had 5 goals and 13 assists on his teams first goal of the game in the Finals.

Top 10 finishes
T9th in assists 56 playoffs
9th in goals 56-57
8th in goals 58-59
T7th in goals 59 playoffs
T6th in assists 60 playoffs
T8th in points 60 playoffs
3rd in assists 62 playoffs
4th in points 62 playoffs
T5th in goals 63 playoffs
T7th in goals 65 playoffs
T8th in assists 65 playoffs
9th in points 65 playoffs
T5th in assists 66 playoffs
T10th in points 66 playoffs
T4th in goals 69 playoffs
3rd in assists 69 playoffs
3rd in points 69 playoffs

He was the 12th highest playoff scorer over the 18 years he played.

 

[MXD]

Clutch scoring.

In his 9 Finals, his team won 27 games. He scored 3 GWGs and assisted on 9 more. He also had 5 goals and 13 assists on his teams first goal of the game in the Finals.

Top 10 finishes
T9th in assists 56 playoffs
9th in goals 56-57
8th in goals 58-59
T7th in goals 59 playoffs
T6th in assists 60 playoffs
T8th in points 60 playoffs
3rd in assists 62 playoffs
4th in points 62 playoffs
T5th in goals 63 playoffs
T7th in goals 65 playoffs
T8th in assists 65 playoffs
9th in points 65 playoffs
T5th in assists 66 playoffs
T10th in points 66 playoffs
T4th in goals 69 playoffs
3rd in assists 69 playoffs
3rd in points 69 playoffs

He was the 12th highest playoff scorer over the 18 years he played.

I know you're kinda "defending" him, and he wasn't a bad player as everybody seems to make it... But was he really a better player than Jacques Lemaire? Sorry if it's not the best example, because Lemaire was playing with two great players on the second best team of hockey's history, but I'm wondering what Duff had that Lemaire didn't. And everybody will agree what if Lemaire makes it in the HHOF, that will be as a builder/coach, and not as a player. Inducing Duff is a bit like inducing Jamie Langenbrunner... Maybe not as bad, but that doesn't make a good choice in itself.

But... which is worse : Dick Duff or Edgar Laprade?

 

[Big Phil]

Lemaire's already in as a player. Inducted in 1983 I believe. But how about Pete Mahovlich? What does Duff have on him? Put it this way a lot of people might consider Chirs Drury to be one of the most clutch players in the league. He's been good in that regard and comparing him to Duff is already probably more clutch all time. But does Drury make the Hall of Fame? No. He falls into Duff's category: a good player that you wanted on your team but he wasnt GREAT.

No one ever uses Drury as an example but I thought I would.

 

[reckoning]

Most points in the playoffs in the 1960s:

1. Bobby Hull 83
1. Jean Beliveau 83
3. Stan Mikita 76
4. Gordie Howe 72
5. Dick Duff 67
5. Norm Ullman 67
7. Henri Richard 62
8. Pierre Pilote 59
9. Red Kelly 55
10. Alex Delvecchio 53

Not saying that this does or doesn't validate his induction, but to be the 5th top playoff scorer over an entire decade is impressive. For the record, neither Bob Bourne or Peter Mahovlich would hit the top 10 over any 10 year period in their career.

 

[justsomeguy]

I have no problem at all with Dick Duff being selected for the HHoF.

"All his goals were big goals" was the first thing one of his Leafs teammates said to me about him. A clutch player is one who raises his game to another level when the stakes are raised. Dick Duff was one of the best clutch players of his era.When the game was on the line, more often than not Duff was out there, particularly if the snow had started to melt outside. Wasn't aware he came in fifth in points in the playoffs in the 1960s or that he was 12th in the 18 years he played but am not surprised to learn it.

Tough little guy from Kirkland Lake who grew up idolizing Ted Lindsay, followed the same path to the NHL through St. Mikes. Made the Leafs at 19 in an age when there were about two dozen left wingers in the league. Became a mainstay on the team and an essential component of three Stanley Cup winners.

Among the top 5 scorers on the team in each of his first five full seasons, he twice led the team in scoring and then was asked to concentrate on the defensive aspect of his game, making the change effortlessly and without a word of complaint.

Did everything that was asked of him and did it well. Don't know where folks get the impression that he was a third line player, unless they saw him with the Rangers, the low point of his career. Playing for a team that was made up of guys that didn't really care if they lost almost every night was not a happy time for Duff.

When Sam Pollock, who knew a bit about hockey players, picked him up from the Rangers, he put him on a line with Beliveau and Cournoyer. Don't remember either of those guys being third-liners either.

His career revitalized, Duff fit in well and loved playing in Montreal picking up two 20-goal seasons and another couple Stanley Cups. Jean Beliveau mentioned work ethic as one thing that stood out wit "He was always ready to play."

While I have a problem with some of the enshrinees from recent years, I remember him playing on an old black and white set in his Habs days (probably one of the few here who did) and I feel that Duff deseves to be in there and should have been admitted quite a while ago.

The controversy around his selection was a result of the long gap between his playing days and last summer. Since then an entire generation of fans grew up thinking Bobby Orr invented the game. Another one followed convinced that Wayne Gretzky was hockey's originator and now we're grooming the generation that'll swear Crosby was the first to vulcanize a puck. If he had been admitted 20 years ago there would have been very little, if any fuss made.

 

[Epsilon]

Here's one way I know a guy is a poor choice/candidate for the Hall of Fame: whenever any of the following come up as a centerpiece of an argument in favor of them.

1. Little personal tidbits and stories (see for instance, the last post and "Tough little guy from Kirkland Lake who grew up idolizing Ted Lindsay, followed the same path to the NHL through St. Mikes" as if that has any bearing on Duff's candidacy).

2. All-star game appearances (probably the most meaningless NHL stat there is).

3. Things that happened in leagues outside of the NHL (with the exception of WHA players, and old European players who had no NHL career or played a significant portion of it outside the NHL), especially "accomplishments" from developmental leagues. No one should care if a guy won the Memorial Cup when it comes time to consider if they are HoF worthy.

4. Trivial and unimportant non-NHL awards, like provincial sports awards (someone on the Canucks board tried to make an argument for Linden and brought up some BC athlete of the year award or some other such nonsense).

5. Contrived statistical categories or lists where the player ranks somewhat high, that look good when taken out of context.

 

[Big Phil]

I agree you can do almost anything to make a player look HHOF calibre. The biggest thing for me was seeing Colin Campbell's article in the Hockey News last year "explaining" the reason for the induction of Duff. Never have I ever heard someone on the HHOF committee board have to go to bat for an inductee, but he did. To me right there that's a problem. No has to explain for Stevens, or Francis, or MacInnis or Messier. If you go long lengths to explain why a guy is in the HHOF then its a good chance he isnt worthy. Duff isnt.

Brad Richards had 7 playoff GWG in 2004 alone, but despite his clutch play I still dont see him as a Hall candidate yet if ever. I remember Campbell's article saying how he watched the Leafs in the '60s and remembers Duff. Heck I remember Wendel Clark, Rick Vaive, and Ian Turnbull. All good players but neither one is a Hall of Famer.

As for the Memorial Cup thing, Darcy Tucker has three Mem Cups if I remember correctly. I guess all he needs is a good postseason and he's in right?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

I agree you can do almost anything to make a player look HHOF calibre. The biggest thing for me was seeing Colin Campbell's article in the Hockey News last year "explaining" the reason for the induction of Duff. Never have I ever heard someone on the HHOF committee board have to go to bat for an inductee, but he did. To me right there that's a problem. No has to explain for Stevens, or Francis, or MacInnis or Messier. If you go long lengths to explain why a guy is in the HHOF then its a good chance he isnt worthy. Duff isnt.

There's the old saying, if you need to debate an Hall of Fame inductee, then they aren't worthy.

yes, Duff had some impressive moments.

But many players have.

I hate Messier, I'm possibly the biggest hater on the site. Can't stand him, change the channel when ever he's on and will rag on him any chance I get. But even still, I can't dispute his worthiness in the Hall of Fame. That's a true Hall of Famer, when even those who dislike him, agree he belongs.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Not saying that this does or doesn't validate his induction, but to be the 5th top playoff scorer over an entire decade is impressive. For the record, neither Bob Bourne or Peter Mahovlich would hit the top 10 over any 10 year period in their career.

An impressive accomplishment, but other strong two-way players on other dynasties have done the same, or come close.

1) Lafleur Guy 120
1) Lemaire Jacques 120
3) Ratelle Jean 109
4) Esposito Phil 102
5) Park Brad 101
6) Cournoyer Yvan 88
7) Drouin Jude 86
8) Mahovlich Frank 85
9) Clarke Bobby 83
10) Orr Bobby 82

1) Gretzky Wayne 175
2) Bossy Mike 155
3) Trottier Bryan 138
4) Tonelli John 115
5) Kurri Jari 113
6) Potvin Denis 112
7) Smith Bobby 99
8) Messier Mark 95
9) Anderson Glenn 93
10) Coffey Paul 92
10) Linseman Ken 92

1) Mahovlich Frank 96
2) Esposito Phil 91
3) Cournoyer Yvan 89
4) Beliveau Jean 85
5) Hull Bobby 81
5) Mikita Stan 81
7) Rousseau Bobby 70
8) Orr Bobby 68
9) Richard Henri 65
10) Bucyk John 62

1) Esposito Phil 104
2) Cournoyer Yvan 103
3) Mahovlich Frank 96
4) Orr Bobby 92
5) Mikita Stan 89
6) Bucyk John 81
7) Lemaire Jacques 77
8) Hodge Ken 71
9) Beliveau Jean 69
10) Pappin Jim 67

The first and last comparisons are a bit shaky (since Lemaire was clearly better than Duff, and Hodge lacked Duff's strong two-way play), but Tonelli and Rousseau are very strong comparisons.

 

[BM67]

OK lets compare Duff and Rousseau.

Rousseau has both a Memorial Cup and an Olympic silver. He won 4 Stanley Cups and played in 6 Finals. He played in 3 all-star games, and was a 2nd team all-star in 66, as well as the Calder winner in 62.

Top 10 finishes
8th in goals 63-64
8th in assists 64-65
5th in goals 65 playoffs
T3rd in assists 65 playoffs
3rd in points 65 playoffs
T5th in goals 65-66
T1st in assists 65-66
T2nd in points 65-66
T6th in goals 66 playoffs
T9th in assists 66 playoffs
9th in points 66 playoffs
T4th in assists 66-67
6th in points 66-67
T3rd in assists 67 playoffs
T7th in points 67 playoffs
T5th in assists 67-68
T8th in goals 72 playoffs
T4th in assists 72 playoffs
T4th in points 72 playoffs
T9th in assists 73 playoffs

He was 8th in playoff scoring over the 15 years he played. (Duff was 20th over the same period.)

Top 10 finishes
[table="css=transp;width=475"]Player|Goals|Assists|Points|PO G|PO A| PO Pts
Dick Duff|2|0|0|4|6|5
Bobby Rousseau|2|4|2|3|5|4

[/table]

In his 6 Finals, his team won 20 games. He scored 3 GWGs and assisted on 3 more. He also had 0 goals and 4 assists on his teams first goal of the game in the Finals.

Interesting to note that Duff assisted on Rousseau's only OT goal, as well as assisting on 2 of the GWGs and 3 of the first goals that Rousseau assisted on.

Rousseau is clearly ahead on regular season accomplishments, but I'd say Duff is about as clearly ahead in the playoffs.

So basically both are underrated borderline HoFers, with the difference getting Duff into the hall is his "clutch playoff performer" tag.

The Maple Leafs repeated their Stanley Cup celebration in 1963, with Dickie Duff setting an NHL record by scoring two goals in the first 1:08 of Game One of the final on April 9, 1963. The Leafs beat the Red Wings 4-2 in that contest.

- Dick Duff HHoF Bio

 

[MS]

I agree you can do almost anything to make a player look HHOF calibre. The biggest thing for me was seeing Colin Campbell's article in the Hockey News last year "explaining" the reason for the induction of Duff. Never have I ever heard someone on the HHOF committee board have to go to bat for an inductee, but he did. To me right there that's a problem. No has to explain for Stevens, or Francis, or MacInnis or Messier. If you go long lengths to explain why a guy is in the HHOF then its a good chance he isnt worthy. Duff isnt.

Brad Richards had 7 playoff GWG in 2004 alone, but despite his clutch play I still dont see him as a Hall candidate yet if ever. I remember Campbell's article saying how he watched the Leafs in the '60s and remembers Duff. Heck I remember Wendel Clark, Rick Vaive, and Ian Turnbull. All good players but neither one is a Hall of Famer.

As for the Memorial Cup thing, Darcy Tucker has three Mem Cups if I remember correctly. I guess all he needs is a good postseason and he's in right?

Yup. Clutch play obviously has to be considered, and is a feather in the cap of many great HHOF players.

But clutch play by itself is not justification for induction. As has been mentioned, there are a ton of guys who were for the most part average players but had a history of scoring big goals for good teams. Tonelli, Drury, Lemieux were every bit as clutch as Duff, as well as being superior players. None will even get a sniff of the HHOF.

The bottom line for Duff is that, after three pretty good (but not great) years for the Leafs at the start of his career, he was a utility player for the vast majority of his career. Mostly a third-liner, sometimes a second-liner. Yes, he was a winner and good in the clutch, but he was an average player who was never a core member of those Toronto and Montreal teams.

There was nothing 'great' about Dick Duff. He was never a top player, never a guy you built a club around. Was never given a second thought for the HHOF for 30+ years until his surprise induction.

The 'worst' and most hotly-debated inductions prior to Duff - players like Federko and Gillies - don't even hold a candle to the ridiculousness of Duff's induction. At least these were elite players for most of their careers. Duff was a utility player.

 

[BM67]

When Duff retired he was 15th in all-time NHL playoff scoring. One would think that would be hard for a "third liner".

He is one of 90 players to have finished in the top 4 of NHL playoff scorers two or more times (including ties, and not using goals as a tie breaker, since Duff didn't tie for either of his top finishes this works aginst him). Only 39 players have done it 3 or more times. One would have to think the guy must have been a key player to have done that.

He is one of 25 players to have won 6 or more Stanley Cups. OK, it's a team thing, but consider that Montreal failed to get to the Finals 4 straight years from 61-64, and then won 4 Stanley Cups and made 5 straight Finals with Duff. Maybe he was more the missing piece than just a "utility player".

Certainly a questionable selection, but he's hardly the disgrace that people seem to be thinking.

 

[MS]

When Duff retired he was 15th in all-time NHL playoff scoring. One would think that would be hard for a "third liner".

He is one of 90 players to have finished in the top 4 of NHL playoff scorers two or more times (including ties, and not using goals as a tie breaker, since Duff didn't tie for either of his top finishes this works aginst him). Only 39 players have done it 3 or more times. One would have to think the guy must have been a key player to have done that.

He is one of 25 players to have won 6 or more Stanley Cups. OK, it's a team thing, but consider that Montreal failed to get to the Finals 4 straight years from 61-64, and then won 4 Stanley Cups and made 5 straight Finals with Duff. Maybe he was more the missing piece than just a "utility player".

Certainly a questionable selection, but he's hardly the disgrace that people seem to be thinking.

Good for him.

Was he more important than any of these guys for the early 1960s Leafs?

Dave Keon
Frank Mahovlich
George Armstrong
Red Kelly
Bob Pulford
Tim Horton
Carl Brewer
Allan Stanley
Johnny Bower

Was he more important than any of these guys for the late 1960s Habs?

Henri Richard
Jean Beliveau
Yvon Cournoyer
Bobby Rousseau
John Ferguson
JC Tremblay
Jacques Laperriere
Gump Worsley

__________

When you're consistently the 8th-10th best player out of 19 on your team over the course of your career, you're not a HHOFer. Yes, after 1960 he was mostly a 3rd liner aside from a couple years in Montreal. He was not a core player, he was dealt twice in the prime of his career, and was turning in 25-point seasons in the middle of his career. An average 2nd/3rd line player for the period with a knack for scoring clutch goals.

When the best argument in your favour is that you were 15th all-time in playoff points around 1970, that's pretty sad.

Again, if being an average player with a knack for clutch scoring makes you HHOF material, there are about 40 guys who qualify on the same front.

Being a 'missing link' is an HHOF criteria? When is Butch Goring going to be inducted?

The HHOF is about front-line players, legends, guys who dominated the sport. If you were not a plainly elite player for most of your career, you don't belong. Forget nitpicking over his playoff statistics - nothing can be said about Duff that makes him close to an elite player. He doesn't belong anywhere near the HHOF, and it is absolutely a disgrace that he's in.

 

[Metallian*]

I wish one day they could do a purging of the HHOF and eliminate the old-boys-club guys who snuck in and give it some dignity and respect back...

 

[VanIslander]

 

[FissionFire]

The HHOF is and always has been a sham. It'll always be a sham as well. Frankly, when I look to compared players and see who is really worthy of being a Hall of Famer on a worldwide basis, I use this site: http://www.chidlovski.com/wwhhof/

I think the front page from that site sums it up pretty well:

Gordie Howe, upon the passing of Jean-Claude Tremblay, expressed surprise when Mr. Hockey found out the former Canadien and Nordique defenseman was not in the Hall of Fame. "He's got five Cups. I've only got four," said Mr. Hockey.

In a broader picture, Mr. Hockey has defined the very problem of the Hall of Fame: there are so many people elected that few know (or have even heard of) all of the honoured. The level of excellence has been lowered so that if one wins five Stanley Cups, the expectation is they should be enshrined.

In his 2003 autobiography, Thunder and Ice, Phil Esposito comments that his Hall of Fame induction day meant little.

Said the man who trailed just Gordie Howe on the NHL's all-time goal scoring list when he retired in 1980, "It wasn't that big a deal to me because I feel there are some players in the Hall who shouldn't be there, and as a result it sort of cheapens it for everyone."

I suggest going to the site to read the rest.

 

[BM67]

From pnep's "HHOF Monitor" (1917-18/2005-06)

0007-1950/1971-20-C-1293-1339-295-314-10-2-4-06-3-2-1-01-2-0-0-0-0-2-10-3-Y-4055,5-Beliveau Jean
0016-1947/1967-20-D-1564-0974-327-183-02-0-1-06-2-0-0-00-0-3-4-0-0-0-08-4-Y-2973,0-Kelly Red
0035-1956/1974-18-L-1330-1135-239-182-00-0-0-03-6-0-4-00-0-0-0-0-0-0-06-2-Y-2138,5-Mahovlich Frank
0058-1955/1975-20-C-1418-1109-306-214-04-0-0-01-3-0-0-00-1-0-0-0-0-0-11-1-Y-1857,5-Richard Henri
0080-1953/1970-15-G-0629-0285-145-070-00-0-1-01-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-2-4-1-04-2-Y-1542,5-Bower Johnny
0083-1963/1979-16-R-1041-0819-218-159-04-0-0-00-4-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-1-10-1-Y-1463,5-Cournoyer Yvan
0090-1949/1974-24-D-1646-0567-229-086-00-0-0-03-3-0-0-00-0-0-2-0-0-0-04-2-Y-1427,2-Horton Tim
0093-1960/1982-18-C-1420-0968-163-110-07-0-0-00-2-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-1-04-0-Y-1391,0-Keon Dave
0100-1952/1974-21-G-0943-0366-119-068-00-0-0-01-1-0-0-00-0-0-0-2-2-0-04-1-Y-1325,0-Worsley Lorne Gump
0117-1962/1974-12-D-0765-0291-135-042-00-0-0-02-3-0-0-00-0-1-1-0-0-0-06-1-Y-1185,4-Laperriere Jacques
0124-1948/1969-21-D-1455-0500-216-084-03-0-0-00-3-0-0-00-0-0-1-0-0-0-04-4-Y-1144,8-Stanley Allan
0158-1960/1975-15-R-1048-0722-204-124-00-0-0-00-1-0-0-00-1-0-0-0-0-0-04-2-0-0982,0-Rousseau Bobby
0161-1949/1971-21-R-1368-0794-213-112-12-0-0-00-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-0-04-2-Y-0973,0-Armstrong George
0186-1954/1972-18-L-1183-0616-210-135-00-0-0-00-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-0-06-3-Y-0871,0-Duff Dick
0187-1969/1985-16-C-1146-0772-150-079-00-0-0-00-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-1-04-1-F-0870,0-Goring Butch
0193-1956/1972-16-L-1230-0680-175-095-01-0-0-00-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-1-04-2-Y-0849,0-Pulford Bob
0194-1957/1980-12-D-0691-0237-138-037-00-0-0-01-3-0-0-00-0-0-1-0-0-0-03-2-0-0844,9-Brewer Carl
0196-1959/1972-13-D-0896-0375-181-102-00-0-0-01-0-0-0-00-0-0-1-0-0-0-05-1-F-0842,5-Trembley J.C.

To answer your question, yes he was as valuable as some of those players, and most of them are in the HHoF.

Please name 40 clutch scorers that won multiple Stanley Cups, that aren't in the HHoF.

 

[MS]

From pnep's "HHOF Monitor" (1917-18/2005-06)

To answer your question, yes he was as valuable as some of those players, and most of them are in the HHoF.

Tremblay and Brewer rank lower on pnep's list only because they had severely shortened NHL careers. Both were easily better players.

Goring rates almost equal with Duff, but isn't close to being an HHOFer, and it's never been suggested by anyone.

Pulford is a very marginal selection in because of his connections to Ziegler and Wirtz. Still, he was a markedly superior player to Duff, especially at the defensive end of the rink, and would probably have won multiple Selkes if they'd existed in his day. Only reason Duff rates even close to him is Duff's team success.

As much as I like pnep's work, it is far too heavily weighed toward team success. One Cup ring (50 points) is worth as much as finishing top-10 in scoring 5 times (10 points each).

Duff's rating is based almost entirely on his teams' playoff success.

Please name 40 clutch scorers that won multiple Stanley Cups, that aren't in the HHoF.

Bob Nystrom
Bob Bourne
John Tonelli
Butch Goring
Glenn Anderson
Chris Drury
Petr Sykora
John MacLean
Claude Lemieux
Reggie Leach
Derek Sanderson
Yvon Lambert

... is a dozen off the top of my head. I'm sure I could hit 20 post-expansion no problem if I did a little research. My knowledge of who is 'clutch' from the 1940s and 1950s is limited, but I'm sure there are as many guys from that era who aren't in. Paul Henderson isn't in either.

__________

Duff was not good enough to hold down a spot on a second line for most of his career. He was not considered a defensive ace. He was an average player, who was a winner but a utility player for the most part on good teams. Two excellent playoffs (1962 and 1969) where he was 2nd on a Cup winner in scoring don't put an average player amongst the all-time greats, and allow for induction into the HHOF. Not even close.

 

[BM67]

Bob Nystrom Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84
Bob Bourne T6th in points 80 playoffs, 4th in points 83 playoffs, Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84
John Tonelli Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84 & 86
Butch Goring T9th in points 80 playoffs, T8th in points 81 playoffs, Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84
Glenn Anderson T7th in points 84 playoffs, 5th in points 85 playoffs, T4th in points 87 playoffs, T5th in points 88 playoffs, T6th in points 90 playoffs, T9th in points 93 playoffs, Stanley Cup 84, 85, 87, 88, 90 & 94, Finals 83
Chris Drury 10th in points 00 playoffs, T9th in points 01 playoffs, T6th in points 06 playoffs, Stanley Cup 01
Petr Sykora 6th in points 00 playoffs, 4th in points 01 playoffs, T10th in points 03 playoffs, Stanley Cup 00, Finals 01, 03
John MacLean T5th in points 95 playoffs, Stanley Cup 95
Claude Lemieux T9th in points 94 playoffs, T8th in points 95 playoffs, 3rd in points 97 playoffs, Stanley Cup 86, 95, 96 & 00, Finals 89
Reggie Leach 1st in points 76 playoffs, Stanley Cup 75, Finals 76 & 80
Derek Sanderson T8th in points 69 playoffs, Stanley Cup 70 & 72
Yvon Lambert Stanley Cup 76, 77, 78 & 79

[table="css=transp;width=475"]Player|Cups|Finals|Top 5 PO Points|Top 10 PO Points
Dick Duff|6|9|2|5
Bob Nystrom|4|5|0|0
Bob Bourne|4|5|1|2
John Tonelli|4|6|0|0
Butch Goring|4|5|0|2
Glenn Anderson|6|7|3|6
Chris Drury|1|1|0|3
Petr Sykora|1|3|1|3
John MacLean|1|1|1|1
Claude Lemieux|4|5|1|3
Reggie Leach|1|3|1|1
Derek Sanderson|2|2|0|1
Yvon Lambert|4|4|0|0
[/table]

Outside of Anderson none of these players has as good a resume as Duff. Anderson while finishing in the top 10 playoff scorers 6 times, was never higher than 3rd on his team any of those years, and was 5th 3 times.

Duff's reputation as a clutch performer is more than backed up by stats. He registered a point on 44.4% of his teams GWGs in the Finals, and also registered a point on 40.9% of his teams first goals of the game in the finals.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Bob Nystrom Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84
Bob Bourne T6th in points 80 playoffs, 4th in points 83 playoffs, Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84
John Tonelli Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84 & 86
Butch Goring T9th in points 80 playoffs, T8th in points 81 playoffs, Stanley Cup 80, 81, 82 & 83, Finals 84
Glenn Anderson T7th in points 84 playoffs, 5th in points 85 playoffs, T4th in points 87 playoffs, T5th in points 88 playoffs, T6th in points 90 playoffs, T9th in points 93 playoffs, Stanley Cup 84, 85, 87, 88, 90 & 94, Finals 83
Chris Drury 10th in points 00 playoffs, T9th in points 01 playoffs, T6th in points 06 playoffs, Stanley Cup 01
Petr Sykora 6th in points 00 playoffs, 4th in points 01 playoffs, T10th in points 03 playoffs, Stanley Cup 00, Finals 01, 03
John MacLean T5th in points 95 playoffs, Stanley Cup 95
Claude Lemieux T9th in points 94 playoffs, T8th in points 95 playoffs, 3rd in points 97 playoffs, Stanley Cup 86, 95, 96 & 00, Finals 89
Reggie Leach 1st in points 76 playoffs, Stanley Cup 75, Finals 76 & 80
Derek Sanderson T8th in points 69 playoffs, Stanley Cup 70 & 72
Yvon Lambert Stanley Cup 76, 77, 78 & 79

[table="css=transp;width=475"]Player|Cups|Finals|Top 5 PO Points|Top 10 PO Points
Dick Duff|6|9|2|5
Bob Nystrom|4|5|0|0
Bob Bourne|4|5|1|2
John Tonelli|4|6|0|0
Butch Goring|4|5|0|2
Glenn Anderson|6|7|3|6
Chris Drury|1|1|0|3
Petr Sykora|1|3|1|3
John MacLean|1|1|1|1
Claude Lemieux|4|5|1|3
Reggie Leach|1|3|1|1
Derek Sanderson|2|2|0|1
Yvon Lambert|4|4|0|0
[/table]

Outside of Anderson none of these players has as good a resume as Duff. Anderson while finishing in the top 10 playoff scorers 6 times, was never higher than 3rd on his team any of those years, and was 5th 3 times.

Duff's reputation as a clutch performer is more than backed up by stats. He registered a point on 44.4% of his teams GWGs in the Finals, and also registered a point on 40.9% of his teams first goals of the game in the finals.

These guys simply aren't contemporaries of Dick Duff. Only 4 teams made the playoffs each year for 90% of his career, so every time his team made the finals there was only one other team that played anywhere lose to the number of games. Kudos to him being part of those teams but he was more "top ten in scoring" in the playoffs among the final two teams than "in the league".

Compare him to the Islanders secondary scoring players during their run - at least they had some competition from the semi-finals losers in that regard, not having played twice as many games as they did.

Top 10 is good, but only 8 other forwards on his team and 9 on the other finals team would have anything close to Duff's minutes.

Again, great career, and if they double the amount of players in ithe HOF then he probably deserves to be there.

 

[Ogopogo*]

These guys simply aren't contemporaries of Dick Duff. Only 4 teams made the playoffs each year for 90% of his career, so every time his team made the finals there was only one other team that played anywhere lose to the number of games. Kudos to him being part of those teams but he was more "top ten in scoring" in the playoffs among the final two teams than "in the league".

Compare him to the Islanders secondary scoring players during their run - at least they had some competition from the semi-finals losers in that regard, not having played twice as many games as they did.

Top 10 is good, but only 8 other forwards on his team and 9 on the other finals team would have anything close to Duff's minutes.

Again, great career, and if they double the amount of players in ithe HOF then he probably deserves to be there.

Exactly.

That grid is completely bogus. A six team NHL is completely different than a 21 team NHL or a 30 team NHL. That grid is completely irrelevant.

 

[rmchahn]

All the posts talking about playoff performances. I thought the hhof is for a player's entire career. Is there more weight given to one's playoff performance when voting for the hhof?

 

[Know Your Enemy]

All the posts talking about playoff performances. I thought the hhof is for a player's entire career. Is there more weight given to one's playoff performance when voting for the hhof?

I certainly hope so. The playoffs are a true test to a players abilities. After all, the point of playing professional hockey is to win. and if you help your team win in the playoffs when wining really counts, then you are a very valuble player.