Prospect Info: Calgary Wranglers and Prospect Discussion Megathread

[super6646]

Our prospects aren’t stagnating, we are just ironically seeing the fruits of an influx of prospects in our system. The AHL may be a developmental league, but the best teams are the ones chalked full of veterans insulating their prospects. We had to lose guys like Gawdin, Ruzicka (graduation), Froese, Kirkland, Philp on the front end, and Mackey (graduation), Valimaki, and Welinski on the back end to make room for younger prospects being added to the team. Anyone who wasn’t expecting a step back with a lot of young guys learning how to play against men given bigger roles simply wasn’t paying attention.

Not sure you fully appreciate the timeline it takes most prospects to make the NHL so I’ll lay it out for you. The 2017 draft is just starting to pay off for teams, we unfortunately had injuries derail Valimaki but Ruzicka is pushing for a spot right now. 2018 has 4 players who have played a seasons worth of hockey (82 games) outside the 1st round. 2019 only has 2. There isn’t a single player any draft after that who has. Not having a player on our team from the 2017 draft onward isn’t the scathing indictment you think it is, especially considering our 1sts have been mid 20s with the exception of one, or used to improve the team.

To be fair, those 2017 prospects are in their d+5. Usually by then you get a good sense of if a player is going to make it. With the case of ruzicka, if he isn’t a regular this season, it almost certainly isn’t happening in Calgary. 2018 also looks like a write-off as well, though we didn’t really have any good picks that year.

You have to look at 2019 to really find players who’ve got a shot, and while it’s early days, Pelletier having a poor start definitely isn’t ideal. Zary hasn’t shown much at the ahl level either, and again while it’s still early for him you want to see A LOT more than half a ppg production from a first rounder in the ahl.

I think a lack of picks has compounded the effect, but so far the pool looks very lean. Going “all in” constantly hasn’t helped, and a lot of blue chip guys are going to bust. I don’t see any sure fire guts in our pool have even have a shot of making the team next year at this point (though I think a lack of opportunity has also hurt too). Doesn’t help when you have a coach that is gun shy with playing youth.

 

[Yepthatsme]

To be fair, those 2017 prospects are in their d+5. Usually by then you get a good sense of if a player is going to make it. With the case of ruzicka, if he isn’t a regular this season, it almost certainly isn’t happening in Calgary. 2018 also looks like a write-off as well, though we didn’t really have any good picks that year.

You have to look at 2019 to really find players who’ve got a shot, and while it’s early days, Pelletier having a poor start definitely isn’t ideal. Zary hasn’t shown much at the ahl level either, and again while it’s still early for him you want to see A LOT more than half a ppg production from a first rounder in the ahl.

I think a lack of picks has compounded the effect, but so far the pool looks very lean. Going “all in” constantly hasn’t helped, and a lot of blue chip guys are going to bust. I don’t see any sure fire guts in our pool have even have a shot of making the team next year at this point (though I think a lack of opportunity has also hurt too). Doesn’t help when you have a coach that is gun shy with playing youth.

You’re looking at a lot of this from the wrong perspective. Ruzicka in my eyes is getting the Kylington treatment right now. Ruzicka has already proven he has offensive talent at the NHL level (10 points in 28 games from the 4th line is impressive). He’s too good for the AHL, so he’s being taught ‘the Sutter way’ currently. Sutter alluded to it last season, he said has the talent but he needs to play the right way and be harder to play against. His contract structure alone is enough to show the organization has faith in him. Can we also stop the Sutter specific bashing for not playing young guys? All of Andersson, Hanifin, Kylington, Mangiapane, Dube and Tkachuk received larger roles under him and that group is all roughly the same age as Matthew Phillips.

We are no longer a bad team that by default has spots for a rookie to fill, and we aren’t yet a cap strapped team that needs ELCs to fill the roles of cap casualties yet. At our current stage, we are a contending team where a rookie will only play for us if they can play for lack of a better term non-rookie hockey. Sutter and our organization aren’t gonna accept slight upgrades on offense for a lot more mistakes. That isn’t a Sutter trait, that’s an NHL trait for non-lottery teams.

You declaring what numbers you want to see has no bearing on how our prospects are doing or what their potential us. If any of Pelletier/Zary/Phillips were on a line with Gawdin and another career AHLer their numbers would be phenomenal just as they all have shown in previous years. Each player is being put in a bigger role this season and are adjusting to having to take their next step.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Our prospects aren’t stagnating, we are just ironically seeing the fruits of an influx of prospects in our system. The AHL may be a developmental league, but the best teams are the ones chalked full of veterans insulating their prospects. We had to lose guys like Gawdin, Ruzicka (graduation), Froese, Kirkland, Philp on the front end, and Mackey (graduation), Valimaki, and Welinski on the back end to make room for younger prospects being added to the team. Anyone who wasn’t expecting a step back with a lot of young guys learning how to play against men given bigger roles simply wasn’t paying attention.

Not sure you fully appreciate the timeline it takes most prospects to make the NHL so I’ll lay it out for you. The 2017 draft is just starting to pay off for teams, we unfortunately had injuries derail Valimaki but Ruzicka is pushing for a spot right now. 2018 has 4 players who have played a seasons worth of hockey (82 games) outside the 1st round. 2019 only has 2. There isn’t a single player any draft after that who has. Not having a player on our team from the 2017 draft onward isn’t the scathing indictment you think it is, especially considering our 1sts have been mid 20s with the exception of one, or used to improve the team.

Gonna have to really disagree with you. While we lost some good vets, we also replaced them with more. Zohorna, Bishop, Sutter, McLain, & Brooks all are new added vets.
Where we do lack is maybe that vet precence on D after losing Welinski, Mackey & Gravel.

Also, who says it takes 5 years for a draft pick to amke the NHL? Even more outlandish when talking about 2 1st rnd picks in Pelletier & Zary. If you weren't expecting more from them, you haven't been paying attention.

I think it is just a systems thing, hopefully they can figure it out and play better. We need them to.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Hard nosed Lucas Ciona is killing it right now in Seattle. I expected him to be around a PPG, but he must have had a big couple games...he's at 14 points in 6 games, and leading the team. Great start!

 

[Dack]

1. I think that getting worried over a 3 game sample size in which they played Coachella (who have a bunch of AHL/NHL tweeters and an average age like 26) twice is silly.

2. If contract situation and potential didnt factor into decision making Zary would have made the team. Dude's fine, the AHL team's defense is atrocious and is dragging Wolf and the forwards down with them. I am and have been way more worried about Pelletier despite his stats last year.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Gonna have to really disagree with you. While we lost some good vets, we also replaced them with more. Zohorna, Bishop, Sutter, McLain, & Brooks all are new added vets.
Where we do lack is maybe that vet precence on D after losing Welinski, Mackey & Gravel.

Also, who says it takes 5 years for a draft pick to amke the NHL? Even more outlandish when talking about 2 1st rnd picks in Pelletier & Zary. If you weren't expecting more from them, you haven't been paying attention.

I think it is just a systems thing, hopefully they can figure it out and play better. We need them to.

The combined point per game of the veterans lost last season is .72, and this season they’ve combined for 1.2 points per game. The names you listed as the veteran help had a combined 0.34 points per game last season. It is very clear this season was designed as a passing of the torch to our young prospects to carry the team, something that is going to come with a lot of losses to more veteran laden teams.

Non-first rounders is around that 4-5 years to fully establish themselves yes. Examples on our team:
Mangiapane -5th season after being draft eligible to play more than half our games.
Dube -5th season after being drafted to play over half our games.
Andersson -4th season after being drafted
Kylington -4th season after being drafted (7 to stick around in the NHL).
Do any of these players leave you wanting more from them for taking that long to become full time NHLers, because to me they have all been developing fantastically?

This year was Pelletier’s first real chance to crack our roster, Treliving himself said he wanted him to have a full season in the AHL last year. It’s disappointing he didn’t make it, but most our prospects didn’t crack the roster their first real attempts. Zara’s first realistic chance is next year, with his most likely case of playing in the AHL too. People who panic over any of these timelines have unrealistic expectations.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Glad I could help, Zary. You're welcome.

2 goals in the 1st

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

1. I think that getting worried over a 3 game sample size in which they played Coachella (who have a bunch of AHL/NHL tweeters and an average age like 26) twice is silly.

2. If contract situation and potential didnt factor into decision making Zary would have made the team. Dude's fine, the AHL team's defense is atrocious and is dragging Wolf and the forwards down with them. I am and have been way more worried about Pelletier despite his stats last year.

Yeah I think people forget year in year out the Wranglers are usually the youngest team in the AHL and carry 3-4 more prospects than almost all other AHL teams. It’s even more so that way this year

 

[Mazatt]

Even more outlandish when talking about 2 1st rnd picks in Pelletier & Zary. If you weren't expecting more from them, you haven't been paying attention.

What exactly is the expectation? For Pelletier and Zary to make the NHL roster in a middle 6, impactful role on a contender after a combined 1.5 seasons in the AHL? If anything I think this helps prove the idea that fans really expected a one-line, expedited induction process for prospects instead of taking each prosepct as a case by case basis on how they are best suited for development.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Anyone watch Lucas Ciona? He’s the reigning WHL player of the week and off to a scorching start. Jack Beck has had a good start too.

Stromgren unfortunately seems like a bust to this point. Too bad, there were food players available.

 

[Anglesmith]

Anyone watch Lucas Ciona? He’s the reigning WHL player of the week and off to a scorching start. Jack Beck has had a good start too.

Stromgren unfortunately seems like a bust to this point. Too bad, there were food players available.

Mangiapane is the only food player we need.

Unless you count Huberdough.

 

[DFF]

What is wrong with Pelletier?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

What exactly is the expectation? For Pelletier and Zary to make the NHL roster in a middle 6, impactful role on a contender after a combined 1.5 seasons in the AHL? If anything I think this helps prove the idea that fans really expected a one-line, expedited induction process for prospects instead of taking each prosepct as a case by case basis on how they are best suited for development.

I think after the season JP just had, it would have been a fair expectation that he'd make the roster.
My earlier comment was more about the slow start for 2 prospects that should be really pushing to leave the AHL for good.
Ya, it's earlier - but I'm older and grumpier than you, I can't wait untill Decemeber to complain.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Top line bustin out tonight, JP already with 2+1, Zary 2A, still in 2nd

 

[Body Checker]

Top line bustin out tonight, JP already with 2+1, Zary 2A, still in 2nd

You knew Jakob wouldn’t take long to get going

 

[super6646]

You knew Jakob wouldn’t take long to get going

Wish they'd give him a shot (or anyone else really) on the third line...

 

[TheHudlinator]

Wish they'd give him a shot (or anyone else really) on the third line...

Just give him another 10 years then he will be ready for a chance

 

[super6646]

Just give him another 10 years then he will be ready for a chance

It's annoying because Lewis is obviously not a long-term solution on that 3rd line or frankly one we should be playing at this point. He absolutely kills any offence from that line. Even though Backlund has played great this year, he has just 2 pts in 6 games because they are essentially a 2 man unit in the ozone. Its just feels like a case of favouritism rather than making sound long-term planning.

 

[TheHudlinator]

It's annoying because Lewis is obviously not a long-term solution on that 3rd line or frankly one we should be playing at this point. He absolutely kills any offence from that line. Even though Backlund has played great this year, he has just 2 pts in 6 games because they are essentially a 2 man unit in the ozone. Its just feels like a case of favouritism rather than making sound long-term planning.

Also frustrating because Lewis in Rooney's spot makes a lot of sense.

 

[Master Bill]

JP won't see an NHL game this season I am afraid. Even when an opening occurs to any of the forward spots, Brad will call up Wranglers captain Brett Sutter

 

[Mazatt]

Interesting

 

[Kahvi]

Topi Rönni has 1+4 in two games with Tappara U20's. I guess he was injured at some point because there were couple of weeks between his game. I might visit Tampere again to see Tappara-Ilves match in a month or so, hopefully Rönni gets some games in Liiga. And Tuulola is playing for Ilves, altough not doing much.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Coronato is having an excellent start.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Coronato is having an excellent start.

3 goals, 3 assists through his first 3 games. That shot in the first highlight is tantalizing.

Him and Caufield have different styles, but they may as well be clones at goal scoring.

Draft year (USHL)
Caufield: 29 goals in 28 games
Coronato: 48 goals in 51 games

Draft +1 (NCAA)
Caufield: 19 goals in 36 games
Coronato: 18 goals in 34 games

Draft +2 (NCAA)
Caufield: 30 goals in 31 games
Coronato: 3 goals in 3 games

 

[Bounces R Way]

Seems good.
Phillips with the hattrick to tie the AHL lead for goals, Zary with two.
Sure could use some speed and skill on the big club