Value of: Cal Clutterbuck at the deadline and his next contract.

[SLAPSHOT723]

Gotcha, yes the trade worked out well for both teams. I just wish NYI took Buchnevich instead of Eamon McAdam.

Eamon McAdam could be alright. I saw him play for Penn State a couple of times and I was pretty impressed.

You should be more upset about taking Taylor Cammarata over Anthony Duclair, Mattias Janmark, Andreas Athanasiou, Sven Andrighetto, or Oliver Bjorkstrand. I hated the Cammarata pick the moment it happened.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I feel like 3-3.5M per is the average going price for a third liner nowadays, no?

Looking at the numbers doesn't tell the whole story with Clutterbuck. He had 5 of his 15 goals last year were game winning goals last year. He's a good player.

Most 3rd liners are showing around 30 point production and the rough going rate for players is about 1mil per 10 points once they get up to around that 25-30 point mark.

I'm not saying he isn't worth it, because I honestly don't know enough about him. Just surprised. It sounds like he had a pretty good year based on the recap Slapshot gave, I'd still be leery on my own team to give someone with unproven offensive capabilities a contract that basically requires he produce 15-20 goals a year.

As a reference, 3-3.75mil gets you players like Ribeiro (50 points), Ward (40 points), Williams (50 points), Read (30 points).

So what you're asking is for Clutterbuck to not only provide those great leadership qualities and defensive game, but to also score at least 30 points a year to validate a 3.5mil or higher contract.

Maybe that's not an issue in New York, that's totally fine. Just evaluating the numbers and it's interesting that a guy like Clutterbuck who to me doesn't seem like a trend setter could really shape a 3rd/4th line economy on a long term deal like that. I can't seem to find any comparables to Clutterbuck at that price point.

 

[Felix Unger]

As a reference, 3-3.75mil gets you players like Ribeiro (50 points), Ward (40 points), Williams (50 points), Read (30 points).

Justin Williams is one of the better values in the NHL for veteran FA contracts. That's kind of an unfair comparison. Joel Ward is far older. I'm not even going to touch creepy Ribiero.

I don't know if Cal makes that much. Maybe a bit less. Other than goals, he brings shot suppression, leadership, draws penalties, kills penalties, and (obviously) he agitates without taking bad penalties himself. I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that he may be the most disciplined agitator in the league at this point in his career.

 

[lazycop]

I hope he stays long-term. He's a huge part of this team and would be tough to replace. I don't see the Isles putting him on the block. I'd definitely overpay for him(within reason), and I think he likes playing here, so it wouldn't be a tough sell to keep him.

 

[TROLLCHUK]

I hope he stays long-term. He's a huge part of this team and would be tough to replace. I don't see the Isles putting him on the block. I'd definitely overpay for him(within reason), and I think he likes playing here, so it wouldn't be a tough sell to keep him.

We thought Frans would want to ride out what he started with the Isles too. I never thought we would lose all three FAs this offseason. But Martin was priced out of range for his talent and Frans, I can't explain why he left but he did.

 

[57special]

Gotcha, yes the trade worked out well for both teams. I just wish NYI took Buchnevich instead of Eamon McAdam.

Clutter had a mediocre year due to shoulder issues before he got traded. It really inhibited his physical game, which is really important. He really rattles cages on the other team. Not dirty, but physical. Not a fighter, but an agitator.

Funny, but Nino has some similarities. He is more of a crease agitator, while CC is more of an open ice guy, but both PO other teams.

 

[_Del_]

So what you're asking is for Clutterbuck to not only provide those great leadership qualities and defensive game, but to also score at least 30 points a year to validate a 3.5mil or higher contract.

I think he's a rare player that GMs would love to add. What he brings to the table doesn't show on every boxscore. I don't think I would hesitate to add him at 3.5 or even 4 on a one or maybe two year deal if I had the budget. Beyond that is entirely too risky. But I still think someone will overpay and give him extra term knowing they'll regret it later, just to add him now. Sort of like Lucic.

 

[Gecklund]

I wonder if Vegas could take a look at him in the offseason to add some leadership.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

We did? Oh man, really?! We didn't know that! Only Ladd? They didn't bring anyone else? Like PA Parenteau and Jason Chimera?! Oh man! We're screwed!!!!!!!



How come every time there's an Islanders thread, and Islander fans constantly bring up why we let certain guys go and we brought certain guys in, everyone else says "but they lost Nielsen and Okposo and replaced him with Ladd!"? Did everyone forget that Jason Chimera exists? Did everyone for get that PA Parenteau exists, and that he had insane chemistry with Tavares when he was with the Islanders? I've said this for months, maybe even years, that Parenteau right now is the only linemate of JT's that left the Islanders and played well. His other linemates were Matt Moulson, Thomas Vanek, and Brad Boyes, all of whom sucked after leaving him. Parenteau also may have had the best chemistry with Tavares of any linemate that Tavares has ever had, so why is everyone discounting that he could produce highly with him again?

Listen to the fans of the team they watch every day, don't just look at a piece of paper. The moves to let those guys go were smart, the moves to bring the guys they brought in were smart. If we brought all those guys back (Okposo, Nielsen, Martin), we wouldn't have been able to bring in anybody new. If we couldn't bring in anyone new, we would have been the same team over and over and over again, constantly losing in the first round but maybe making it to the second. More importantly, it sounded like we need a locker room shake up more than anything. What better way to do that than to lose some core guys, and replace them with high pedigree veterans? You know the last time we had a former captain on the Islanders? Doug Weight. Tavares has needed a guy like Ladd on his team for years, and it's not like Ladd is washed up. He's 30 years old, probably the prime age for a power forward.

/rant

Clutterbuck's going nowhere. We more than likely won't be out of it by the deadline.



His leadership really is important. Once he came to the Islanders, he immediately bought into the culture and embraced it. A lot of fans were not happy that he was brought in because we traded Niederreiter for him. A lot of fans were saying "we traded a top-5 pick for a 3rd liner, he's nothing special." But he didn't care, he played his game, and really has been important for us.

Whenever Nielsen or Okposo was injured, he was the one that got the A. Don't forget, he scored 15 goals on the 4th line. If he was getting more ice time on the 3rd line with a more offensive linemate, he could have scored 20+ goals last year. He was on fire. I kept saying when Okposo got hurt that I wanted to try Clutterbuck out on his line, but Capuano didn't want to split up the 4th line, which I understand, but I think he has a lot more offense to offer. His offense and his leadership are worth $3.5M/year if that's what he re-signs for.

Because Ladd is the only one that matters he's the only one that will make any sort of difference, Jason Chimera isn't scoring you 20 goals and 40 points he's more likely to fall off the cliff than do that again I mean sure you do see guys like Jagr who just don't seem to age but Chimera isn't Jagr he can't be expected to have a year like last year again.

And PAP while not a scrub and somebody I wanted back does not belong on any teams 1st line, he's a 3rd line guy he's a depth scorer that a team like Chicago could really use or LA or the Pens Stars, etc but if he's on your top line you are in trouble

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Because Ladd is the only one that matters

Stopped reading here. You just lost all credibility.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Stopped reading here. You just lost all credibility.

We shall see

 

[13th Floor]

Because Ladd is the only one that matters he's the only one that will make any sort of difference, Jason Chimera isn't scoring you 20 goals and 40 points he's more likely to fall off the cliff than do that again I mean sure you do see guys like Jagr who just don't seem to age but Chimera isn't Jagr he can't be expected to have a year like last year again.

And PAP while not a scrub and somebody I wanted back does not belong on any teams 1st line, he's a 3rd line guy he's a depth scorer that a team like Chicago could really us work LA or the Pens Stars, etc but if he's on your top line you are in trouble

You are missing the chemistry pieces. Who plays on Crosby's wing? I'm not saying Tavares is as good as Crosby, but the idea of building around a franchise guy is complementing his style. We Islanders fans have been screaming for someone like Ladd for years because of his shoot-first mentality, his physicality, and his leadership. PAP is a puck-carrier, which takes significant pressure off of Tavares. Lee might score more goals than he does, but can't provide that element for Tavares. Nelson may score more than the top line wingers as well, but probably can't win the puck along the boards as well as Ladd can. Tavares needs this. I could see PAP being outscored (goals) by a number of people in our lineup (Tavares, Ladd, Nelson, Strome, Lee, etc.), but that doesn't mean anything. People love to get hung up on the line numbers when in reality it is more about finding complementary players in your lineup that have chemistry.

Also, how are we saying only Ladd matters? The fact that Chimera is older doesn't matter, because he is a significant upgrade over Martin. He makes the team much faster and we don't lose the physicality that Martin brought (on a line that already has a guy who is constantly in the top of the league in hits). Whether he matches last year's offensive numbers is secondary, because it's not like Martin was lighting the lamp a ton, especially by himself.

We also actually improved our defense, which is a strong suit. But I guess you can ignore that? You can think that Seidenberg is old, but do you want to argue he's not better than Brian Strait? Not to mention we had Pelech hurt for almost all of last year with a freak injury and now Ryan Pulock has another year of pro hockey under his belt and might not even crack our lineup. Our defense is 8 deep before getting to Mayfield, whereas last year it was 5 deep before getting to either Zidlicky or Strait.

Your premise is that we might trade Clutterbuck because we are so far out of the playoff race. We all agree Nielsen is good. (Of course, Islanders fans saying this for years meant nothing until we lost him, so we can circle back to again ignoring everything we are saying in this thread about who's replaces him. Ironic.) It's not like we are replacing him with AHL replacement players. With back-to-back 100-pt seasons, you think Nielsen is worth some 20-points in the standings? I can understand people arguing that the Isles didn't do enough to take that NEXT step, and maybe stayed the same, or got a drop worse in talent, or got a drop better in chemistry, etc. But we didn't all of a sudden become a bottom feeder because we lost a player that at this time last year wasn't even good enough in HF's eyes to matter.

 

[Seph]

Because Ladd is the only one that matters he's the only one that will make any sort of difference, Jason Chimera isn't scoring you 20 goals and 40 points he's more likely to fall off the cliff than do that again I mean sure you do see guys like Jagr who just don't seem to age but Chimera isn't Jagr he can't be expected to have a year like last year again.

And PAP while not a scrub and somebody I wanted back does not belong on any teams 1st line, he's a 3rd line guy he's a depth scorer that a team like Chicago could really us work LA or the Pens Stars, etc but if he's on your top line you are in trouble

At 5 on 5, you've got Ladd to replace Nielsen, Parenteau to replace Okposo, and Chimera to replace Martin. Ladd's GF% at 5 on 5 over the past couple years is slightly higher than Nielsen's (53.6% vs 52.7%, respectively), Parenteau's is higher than Okposo's (53.7% vs. 50.0%, and PAP didn't have the benefit of most of that icetime being with Tavares), and Chimera's is only slightly less than Martin's (47.6% vs. 48.8%). Assuming these trends hold, not much reason to assume the Islanders will be worse at 5 on 5. Even if Chimera falls off a cliff, replacing Martin's 48.8% should be easy enough internally.

On the PP, Pulock replaces Nielsen on the left point, which was a huge upgrade last season. Okposo's loss here will be noted, but I don't think it's outlandish to think that one of Strome/PAP/Barzal/Ho-Sang can take his place, especially when you consider whoever it is will be playing the PP with Tavares. Or the Islanders could switch to a 1-3-1 with Pulock on the left half boards, and then Ladd would essentially get Okposo's power play time. Ladd's GF% on the PP was only slightly less than Okposo's (91.9% vs. 92.8%), so that's not much of a loss. But given how much better the PP looked last year when Pulock was added, I think we'll see the PP improve, assuming they use him consistently on the top unit.

On the PK, both Ladd and Chimera had a better GF% than Nielsen over the past couple years as well (12.5% and 10.5% vs. 7.7%), so it's reasonable to assume one of them can replace him here. Okposo and Martin did not PK, so there's no loss from them here.

Overall, it seems like the total GF% for the team should remain consistent, and could see improvement if one of the numerous young players takes that next step or if Ladd and PAP get boosts to their stats from playing with Tavares. Either way, there doesn't seem to be much indication that the dropoff would be severe enough that the Islanders would be out of the mix entirely by the deadline.

 

[CodeE]

Forget the UFAs and consider the kids. Four in particular: Barzal, Beau, Dal Colle, Ho-Sang. All 1st rounders, all looking to solidify an NHL spot sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry but the "u lost Okpoakosso, Neialson, and Martin and gained absolutely nothing because Ladd is signed for too long, PAP & Chimera don't count, and every single one of your prospects are gonna bust" just reeks of that uninformed hot taek where someone 100% commits to a strong opinion they formed without any real research or understanding of the situation.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

You are missing the chemistry pieces. Who plays on Crosby's wing? I'm not saying Tavares is as good as Crosby, but the idea of building around a franchise guy is complementing his style. We Islanders fans have been screaming for someone like Ladd for years because of his shoot-first mentality, his physicality, and his leadership. PAP is a puck-carrier, which takes significant pressure off of Tavares. Lee might score more goals than he does, but can't provide that element for Tavares. Nelson may score more than the top line wingers as well, but probably can't win the puck along the boards as well as Ladd can. Tavares needs this. I could see PAP being outscored (goals) by a number of people in our lineup (Tavares, Ladd, Nelson, Strome, Lee, etc.), but that doesn't mean anything. People love to get hung up on the line numbers when in reality it is more about finding complementary players in your lineup that have chemistry.

Also, how are we saying only Ladd matters? The fact that Chimera is older doesn't matter, because he is a significant upgrade over Martin. He makes the team much faster and we don't lose the physicality that Martin brought (on a line that already has a guy who is constantly in the top of the league in hits). Whether he matches last year's offensive numbers is secondary, because it's not like Martin was lighting the lamp a ton, especially by himself.

We also actually improved our defense, which is a strong suit. But I guess you can ignore that? You can think that Seidenberg is old, but do you want to argue he's not better than Brian Strait? Not to mention we had Pelech hurt for almost all of last year with a freak injury and now Ryan Pulock has another year of pro hockey under his belt and might not even crack our lineup. Our defense is 8 deep before getting to Mayfield, whereas last year it was 5 deep before getting to either Zidlicky or Strait.

Your premise is that we might trade Clutterbuck because we are so far out of the playoff race. We all agree Nielsen is good. (Of course, Islanders fans saying this for years meant nothing until we lost him, so we can circle back to again ignoring everything we are saying in this thread about who's replaces him. Ironic.) It's not like we are replacing him with AHL replacement players. With back-to-back 100-pt seasons, you think Nielsen is worth some 20-points in the standings? I can understand people arguing that the Isles didn't do enough to take that NEXT step, and maybe stayed the same, or got a drop worse in talent, or got a drop better in chemistry, etc. But we didn't all of a sudden become a bottom feeder because we lost a player that at this time last year wasn't even good enough in HF's eyes to matter.

At 5 on 5, you've got Ladd to replace Nielsen, Parenteau to replace Okposo, and Chimera to replace Martin. Ladd's GF% at 5 on 5 over the past couple years is slightly higher than Nielsen's (53.6% vs 52.7%, respectively), Parenteau's is higher than Okposo's (53.7% vs. 50.0%, and PAP didn't have the benefit of most of that icetime being with Tavares), and Chimera's is only slightly less than Martin's (47.6% vs. 48.8%). Assuming these trends hold, not much reason to assume the Islanders will be worse at 5 on 5. Even if Chimera falls off a cliff, replacing Martin's 48.8% should be easy enough internally.

On the PP, Pulock replaces Nielsen on the left point, which was a huge upgrade last season. Okposo's loss here will be noted, but I don't think it's outlandish to think that one of Strome/PAP/Barzal/Ho-Sang can take his place, especially when you consider whoever it is will be playing the PP with Tavares. Or the Islanders could switch to a 1-3-1 with Pulock on the left half boards, and then Ladd would essentially get Okposo's power play time. Ladd's GF% on the PP was only slightly less than Okposo's (91.9% vs. 92.8%), so that's not much of a loss. But given how much better the PP looked last year when Pulock was added, I think we'll see the PP improve, assuming they use him consistently on the top unit.

On the PK, both Ladd and Chimera had a better GF% than Nielsen over the past couple years as well (12.5% and 10.5% vs. 7.7%), so it's reasonable to assume one of them can replace him here. Okposo and Martin did not PK, so there's no loss from them here.

Overall, it seems like the total GF% for the team should remain consistent, and could see improvement if one of the numerous young players takes that next step or if Ladd and PAP get boosts to their stats from playing with Tavares. Either way, there doesn't seem to be much indication that the dropoff would be severe enough that the Islanders would be out of the mix entirely by the deadline.

Save your breath, guys. We lost Nielsen. Parenteau doesn't count.

Leafs rule, Isles drool.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

<Insert Seph's novella here>

You and your logic, man.

 

[Jester9881]

The Islanders have been good because of John Tavares, the defense and goaltending. They improved the defense, and will improve the goaltending when they replace Berube with Halak. They not only replaced any offense lost, but they spread it out more (something that has been a problem in the past) while improving overall defense and team speed.

Literally the 5th time I've had to type this and people still don't get it.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

The Islanders have been good because of John Tavares, the defense and goaltending. They improved the defense, and will improve the goaltending when they replace Berube with Halak. They not only replaced any offense lost, but they spread it out more (something that has been a problem in the past) while improving overall defense and team speed.

Literally the 5th time I've had to type this and people still don't get it.

But we lost Nielsen and Okposo.

BUT WE LOST NIELSEN AND OKPOSO.

BUT WE LOST NIELSEN AND OKPOSO.

 

[PWJunior]

But we lost Nielsen and Okposo.

BUT WE LOST NIELSEN AND OKPOSO.

BUT WE LOST NIELSEN AND OKPOSO.

You should have at least spelled their names wrong if your intention was to mimic some of the typical responses. Hell, a lot of Isles fans still spell Frans' name wrong.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

You should have at least spelled their names wrong if your intention was to mimic some of the typical responses. Hell, a lot of Isles fans still spell Frans' name wrong.

Sorry.

Neilson and Okoposo.

Or the Swedish Okposso.

 

[Felix Unger]

Losing Nielsen does hurt. You can't pull out a bunch of numbers as if they're all discrete and don't depend on being played in the proper place in a lineup, and then act like they're just going to project. That's ridiculous.

The coach isn't going to trust Nelson/Strome on defensive zone faceoffs. So, JT and Cizikas are going to see way more of those, which will alter their games 5 v 5. This makes a difference.

This is why Okposo's loss doesn't matter while Nielsen's loss does - Okposo's loss doesn't change how the Islanders play. Nielsen's loss does.

 

[Seph]

You and your logic, man.

Sorry, I know folk don't take kindly to that kind of thing around here.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Seems to me that Cal is being paid about what he is worth. Perhaps a similar deal could be worked out?

It's not like NHLers need cost of living adjustments.

 

[PWJunior]

Seems to me that Cal is being paid about what he is worth. Perhaps a similar deal could be worked out?

It's not like NHLers need cost of living adjustments.

I think Clutterbuck will test UFA and will likely walk when he gets an offer that's too rich for the Isles. Snow sets his price for UFA's and sticks to it. The list of who he let walk continues to grow - Streit, AMac, Parenteau, Okposo, Nielsen, Martin, etc.

If CBuck wants to stay, he'll likely have to take less than what he can get on the open market. While I do think he really likes being on the Isles, money does talk.

The Isles really rely on the Draft and their youngsters to take the reins. Barzal/Beauvillier/Ho-Sang/Dal Colle will be fighting for the Clutterbuck's vacant roster spot if he walks.

 

[Al Lagoon]

I think Clutterbuck will test UFA and will likely walk when he gets an offer that's too rich for the Isles. Snow sets his price for UFA's and sticks to it. The list of who he let walk continues to grow - Streit, AMac, Parenteau, Okposo, Nielsen, Martin, etc.

If CBuck wants to stay, he'll likely have to take less than what he can get on the open market. While I do think he really likes being on the Isles, money does talk.

The Isles really rely on the Draft and their youngsters to take the reins. Barzal/Beauvillier/Ho-Sang/Dal Colle will be fighting for the Clutterbuck's vacant roster spot if he walks.

You are one beautiful lady!