C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) VI

[Classicnamesup]

Exactly, this is one of my biggest pet peeves on HF

Also, I'm pretty sure Nylander would've made 29 different teams in the NHL this year.

I believe that you believe this for whatever reason.

That wasn't a joke and you know it.

Is that a fact?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I laughed. If this truly is management's mentality then it appears they're just as incompetent as the previous regime.

More likely, Nylander is in the AHL so he can improve his game to the level necessary to be an NHL regular - a likelihood that almost everyone except the Leafs fans accepts.

It was talked about on Leafs Lunch and they were saying that Babcock and Lamoriello wanted Nylander on the team as the 3C, but Shanahan and Dubas overruled them and wanted him to get 1C time in the AHL.

So he's in the AHL because of a new development mandate from management, a likelihood that nearly every Leafs fan seems to accept, while outsiders refuse to acknowledge the new managerial philosophy.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I just wonder if the leafs think sending Willie to the worlds will be good for his development playing against other teenagers. He is already a pretty dominant player in the A against men as a 19 yr old.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

I just wonder if the leafs think sending Willie to the worlds will be good for his development playing against other teenagers. He is already a pretty dominant player in the A against men as a 19 yr old.

Its 2-3 weeks. Him going or not going probably has zero effect on is development.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

It was talked about on Leafs Lunch and they were saying that Babcock and Lamoriello wanted Nylander on the team as the 3C, but Shanahan and Dubas overruled them and wanted him to get 1C time in the AHL.

So he's in the AHL because of a new development mandate from management, a likelihood that nearly every Leafs fan seems to accept, while outsiders refuse to acknowledge the new managerial philosophy.

Actually it was *speculated* on Leafs Lunch that's what happened. And it's the only place anyone has said Lamoreillo (the GM) and Babcock (the head coach) believed he should be playing in the NHL only to be overruled by Dubas and Shanahan.

It's funny that Leafs fans get so defensive at the idea that Nylander's game needs to improve before he'll be ready to be a regular at the NHL level. I think that is because all last season we heard how his game was ahead of other prospects because he was playing in a "men's league" and now some of the prospects are thriving in the NHL.

Hopefully Nylander is working hard on his game away from the puck. I'm sure once that is improved he'll be in the NHL in no time.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Actually it was *speculated* on Leafs Lunch that's what happened. And it's the only place anyone has said Lamoreillo (the GM) and Babcock (the head coach) believed he should be playing in the NHL only to be overruled by Dubas and Shanahan.

It's funny that Leafs fans get so defensive at the idea that Nylander's game needs to improve before he'll be ready to be a regular at the NHL level. I think that is because all last season we heard how his game was ahead of other prospects because he was playing in a "men's league" and now some of the prospects are thriving in the NHL.

Hopefully Nylander is working hard on his game away from the puck. I'm sure once that is improved he'll be in the NHL in no time.

Speculated sure. Not like you or anyone else is doing anything much different by thumping your chests and shouting how he wasn't ready. That speculation also means a hell of a lot more coming from them, given their professions and including the fact that they named names.

I don't particularly care about the comparisons. It's too early to declare a "winner" between Nylander, Ehlers, Larkin et all. I take issue with the fact that people think he was vastly incapable of playing in the NHL this year. As if his defensive game is so atrocious and behind that there is no way he could be in the NHL doing what Larkin and Ehlers are doing.

It's a complete load. And this isn't anything different that you haven't already read/heard, but until you and every other poster gets it into your thick bloody skulls, we will repeat: he was one of the best players for the Leafs in training camp. He could've been on the team. Based on everything the new regime has said and alluded to, anyone with half a brain could tell that Nylander nor any other young prospect was going to start the season with the Leafs.

You're right in your last paragraph. Kid had a hell of a work ethic to go along with his high skill already. He'll be in the show soon enough. Until then you and others can conyinue to rest o the ignorant "he just isn't ready" argument you've held fast to.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Speculated sure. Not like you or anyone else is doing anything much different by thumping your chests and shouting how he wasn't ready. That speculation also means a hell of a lot more coming from them, given their professions and including the fact that they named names.

I don't particularly care about the comparisons. It's too early to declare a "winner" between Nylander, Ehlers, Larkin et all. I take issue with the fact that people think he was vastly incapable of playing in the NHL this year. As if his defensive game is so atrocious and behind that there is no way he could be in the NHL doing what Larkin and Ehlers are doing.

It's a complete load. And this isn't anything different that you haven't already read/heard, but until you and every other poster gets it into your thick bloody skulls, we will repeat: he was one of the best players for the Leafs in training camp. He could've been on the team. Based on everything the new regime has said and alluded to, anyone with half a brain could tell that Nylander nor any other young prospect was going to start the season with the Leafs.

You're right in your last paragraph. Kid had a hell of a work ethic to go along with his high skill already. He'll be in the show soon enough. Until then you and others can conyinue to rest o the ignorant "he just isn't ready" argument you've held fast to.

...except I haven't seen anyone say his defensive game is "so atrocious" or "behind". Just that it needs improvement before he is ready to be an NHL regular. Why is that such an outrageous comment? 5/10 players drafted in the top 10 in 2014 are not currently in the NHL - and that might become 6 if Virtanen doesn't stick around. Like most players his age, Nylander needs more time before he plays in the NHL. It's not an insult to him. Oddly enough, you don't see fans of any of the other players drafted top 10 who aren't in the NHL carry on the same way that Leafs fans do. I wonder why that is?

As far as Larkin goes, there is nothing Nylander exhibited during pre-season that would suggest his game is, at present, as complete as Larkin's is. So, no - i really doubt he would be doing as well if he were in the NHL right now.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

...except I haven't seen anyone say his defensive game is "so atrocious" or "behind". Just that it needs improvement before he is ready to be an NHL regular. Why is that such an outrageous comment? 5/10 players drafted in the top 10 in 2014 are not currently in the NHL - and that might become 6 if Virtanen doesn't stick around. Like most players his age, Nylander needs more time before he plays in the NHL. It's not an insult to him. Oddly enough, you don't see fans of any of the other players drafted top 10 who aren't in the NHL carry on the same way that Leafs fans do. I wonder why that is?

As far as Larkin goes, there is nothing Nylander exhibited during pre-season that would suggest his game is, at present, as complete as Larkin's is. So, no - i really doubt he would be doing as well if he were in the NHL right now.

Probably because they haven't had to deal with opposing fans shoehorning Ehlers or Larkin into their respective prospects' threads.

The last part is subjective. Same two way game, maybe not. But Nylander would definitely be impacting the game were he with the Leafs right now.

 

[Red Piller]

Probably because they haven't had to deal with opposing fans shoehorning Ehlers or Larkin into their respective prospects' threads.

The last part is subjective. Same two way game, maybe not. But Nylander would definitely be impacting the game were he with the Leafs right now.

actually, in almost every Ehlers or Virtanen or Larkin thread, here comes the leaf brigade to talk about Nylander. So.....you are mistaken.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I just wonder if the leafs think sending Willie to the worlds will be good for his development playing against other teenagers. He is already a pretty dominant player in the A against men as a 19 yr old.

Dominant might be a bit strong.
He's over a point a game and in the top 25 or so scorers though.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

he seems like a good prospect - 2014 has been a surprisingly good draft year so far

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

actually, in almost every Ehlers or Virtanen or Larkin thread, here comes the leaf brigade to talk about Nylander. So.....you are mistaken.

I never denied that there were Leafs fans bringing up Nylander in other threads so... no I'm not. I specifically meant that threads like the ones for Dal Colle and Virtanen don't have Larkin or Ehlers brought up.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I never denied that there were Leafs fans bringing up Nylander in other threads so... no I'm not. I specifically meant that threads like the ones for Dal Colle and Virtanen don't have Larkin or Ehlers brought up.

You also don't see dal colle fans aggressively insisting that even though he got sent back to junior by the Isles he would have made 29 other teams and has a game that is currently as developed as Larkin's.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I definitely feel that Nylander could use some more seasoning in the AHL, especially since he's moving back to centre. I think he could have been NHL ready as a winger though. I doubt he finishes the season with the Marlies either, I think at some point his play will make it impossible to keep dow any longer. Whatever weaknesses there are, he'll work on them til they no longer exist, he definitely works hard to improve and has the skills and smarts to do so.

 

[Atomos2]

...except I haven't seen anyone say his defensive game is "so atrocious" or "behind". Just that it needs improvement before he is ready to be an NHL regular. Why is that such an outrageous comment? 5/10 players drafted in the top 10 in 2014 are not currently in the NHL - and that might become 6 if Virtanen doesn't stick around. Like most players his age, Nylander needs more time before he plays in the NHL. It's not an insult to him. Oddly enough, you don't see fans of any of the other players drafted top 10 who aren't in the NHL carry on the same way that Leafs fans do. I wonder why that is?

As far as Larkin goes, there is nothing Nylander exhibited during pre-season that would suggest his game is, at present, as complete as Larkin's is. So, no - i really doubt he would be doing as well if he were in the NHL right now.

He'd be doing better than Larkin especially playing on Zetterberg's wing. Nylander and Zetterberg have a perfect European style of game that would mesh well. Larkin's on-ice shooting pct is abnormally high, considering the Red Wings are one of the lowest teams in shots on goal. He's overachieving right now. It's nothing to be cocky about, he'll come back down to Earth.

 

[Menzinger]

It depends on what one means by "NHl regular" he could fit in on the bottom six rather easily. Leaf management it seems to want him to come fully polished into a top six role.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It was talked about on Leafs Lunch and they were saying that Babcock and Lamoriello wanted Nylander on the team as the 3C, but Shanahan and Dubas overruled them and wanted him to get 1C time in the AHL.

So he's in the AHL because of a new development mandate from management, a likelihood that nearly every Leafs fan seems to accept, while outsiders refuse to acknowledge the new managerial philosophy.

That's just speculation, and I am highly doubtful of it. There is no way those 3 guys on Leafs lunch would know this. They are not insiders. Nylander's play in the preseason was more impressive when he played against the rookies and less so when the vet games began. I thought he would make the team this year when camp began, like many of his peers have this season. But I am not shocked he was sent down. He's close but IMO was not there yet based on what I saw.

 

[bobbyt 91*]

That's just speculation, and I am highly doubtful of it. There is no way those 3 guys on Leafs lunch would know this. They are not insiders. Nylander's play in the preseason was more impressive when he played against the rookies and less so when the vet games began. I thought he would make the team this year when camp began, like many of his peers have this season. But I am not shocked he was sent down. He's close but IMO was not there yet based on what I saw.

Thats just not true. The last game he played was his best game.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Regarding Nylander, Ehlers and Larkin:

I think people get a bit carried away trying to win arguments right now. I think all three always projected very similar, and all are on course as well.

Larkin in my book is looking just like I expected him to. As a prospect everything about him screamed fast-tracking and NHL-ready, and I'm not surprised that he's had an impact. My view on him long-term hasn't changed.

Nylander doesn't have the same "can handle every aspect of an NHL game"-feel that Larkin has, so he is molded in the AHL right now. He's doing everything there that you'd expect of a top center prospect playing in AHL, so I see no need to change my view on his long-term impact either.

The one where I've had to change opinion slightly is Ehlers. I thought he'd need another year to get stronger, but his slipperiness seem to make him effective enough as is. He's both answered some question marked and progressed faster than I thought.

I used to have Nylander as the strongest of the three, right now I'd probably have it reverse. Still, I think that long-term they are just incredibly close. Ehlers might have the edge in ability, but the other two might be more valuable due to position.

He'd be doing better than Larkin especially playing on Zetterberg's wing. Nylander and Zetterberg have a perfect European style of game that would mesh well. Larkin's on-ice shooting pct is abnormally high, considering the Red Wings are one of the lowest teams in shots on goal. He's overachieving right now. It's nothing to be cocky about, he'll come back down to Earth.

Larkin might be overachieving production-wise, but he is playing really well and from everything I've seen he meshes perfectly with Zetterberg. I see no reason to say that Nylander would do it better.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Thats just not true. The last game he played was his best game.

I disagree. Other than a tap in PP goal in the first period. You hardly noticed Nylander the entire game. Here are the highlights. The entire game is still on youtube.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_2qGeJWFZs

 

[tsujimoto74]

Exactly, this is one of my biggest pet peeves on HF

Also, I'm pretty sure Nylander would've made 29 different teams in the NHL this year.

Yeah, that Leafs roster looks like a real tough one to crack.
Look, you can admit that he's not NHL-ready and still regard him as a very good prospect. Needing more time doesn't make him awful.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Yeah, that Leafs roster looks like a real tough one to crack.
Look, you can admit that he's not NHL-ready and still regard him as a very good prospect. Needing more time doesn't make him awful.

You're right. Babcock is by far the hardest when it comes to making it onto his roster for a Rookie.

 

[bobbyt 91*]

I disagree. Other than a tap in PP goal in the first period. You hardly noticed Nylander the entire game. Here are the highlights. The entire game is still on youtube.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_2qGeJWFZs

um this isn't this preseason

 

[vippe]

Nylander is far too important to the Marlies to go to the WJC again, a tournament he's all ready been at. I doubt he's released.

Marlies look like they have a pretty good team this year I am guessing They will be in a comfortable position by then as well. He would miss 6 games in total during the WJC.
I would be surprised if he wasn't released if he wants to go. AHL teams rarely refuses a player.

 

[Whileee]

You also don't see dal colle fans aggressively insisting that even though he got sent back to junior by the Isles he would have made 29 other teams and has a game that is currently as developed as Larkin's.

....not to mention the plethora of posts over the past year that claimed Nylander's clear superiority to other 2014 draftees because at the time he was successful in a higher league "against men".