C/RW Maddox Fleming - Univ of Notre Dame (2022 undrafted)

[Ryan Van Horne]

Prep is certainly the top team, but the 16U team is always loaded with kids who could just as well be on the prep team. Clayton Keller made the jump that MacKinnon didn't a few years after, but that was a weaker prep team than it was when he was there. Even two years* after MacKinnon, a fellow maritimer named Nathan (noel) made the jump MacKinnon didn't, and he is nowhere near what Mackinnon was. Also worth noting Mack is a late birthday.
These days SSM gets players recruited like crazy from junior teams so the prep team is thinner than it was in the 'glory days' as far as I can tell. For example Jackson LaCombe who went early on in the draft this year had to switch to defense on the prep team two years ago because they didn't have enough blue liners. Not something that would have happened in the past I would wager.

For what it's worth 18U hockey (what prep plays) really isn't usually 'better' than 16U in america. It's just older. In many ways 16U is more skilled and certainly was more 'relevant' for scouts, at least until 15U became popular. I'm sure it is still that way to some extent. But for a young talent a year of showing what you can do against decent 17-18 year olds can be valuable.

This is the type of insight I come here for. Some others on this site should take pointers from you.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

This is the type of insight I come here for. Some others on this site should take pointers from you.

Indeed. I agree. tealhockey is a good poster.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

1+1 today. 2+5=7 in 6 games. After going 3 games with binocular stats, 7 points in his last 3 games.
- good start for the youngest player (15 yrs) in the team and one of the youngest player all together,
still left tons of improvement however, slowly adapting, getting some confidence.

 

[MN Hockey Scout]

Fleming was the best player on the ice these last two days without question. Could have had 6 or 7 points in each game. He is very very smart and it’s clearly evident he is going to be a great player at the next level. Speaking to the first three games, while the Elite League and OHL and WHL certainly aren’t the same caliber, it’s worth noting Other top prospects Matt Savoie and Shane Wright have struggled in the beginning of their seasons. I think the real test is seeing how they play when they are all fully adjusted.

 

[Bonin21]

This is the type of insight I come here for. Some others on this site should take pointers from you.

I disagree with a lot of it...

MacKinnon not playing prep as a (young) tenth grader was an outlier. Prep as a tenth grader is absolutely an indication to start talking about a player as legit prospect as the big names from Shattuck mostly played prep as sophomores (Crosby, Jack Johnson, Keller, Toews I think, and so on).

And to act like U16 might be a "better" level for him to be dominating at, just no. He would just be racking up tons of points against inferior competition, like he did in HS.

 

[tealhockey]

I disagree with a lot of it...

MacKinnon not playing prep as a (young) tenth grader was an outlier. Prep as a tenth grader is absolutely an indication to start talking about a player as legit prospect as the big names from Shattuck mostly played prep as sophomores (Crosby, Jack Johnson, Keller, Toews I think, and so on).

And to act like U16 might be a "better" level for him to be dominating at, just no. He would just be racking up tons of points against inferior competition, like he did in HS.

I didn't act like U16 is better for him. Funnily, I had a conversation with someone yesterday who did argue that U16 would be better for him, and I argued that he was in a good spot rather than dominating at U16, so I don't know where you read that from. I said today in another thread that a top 04 would be better served in 18 or U16 rather than U15 today as well. What I said (or meant) was that U16 in general is often a better quality of hockey overall. The top u16 teams play mostly the top u16 teams and those teams are often very good, more skilled and high-end then what they might play for the same organizations U18 teams. U18 hockey, elite league play not withstanding (and even the elite league has flaws), can be very hit or miss. At Shattuck, these factors are mitigated by the elite league schedule. They play a strong, long schedule in general, but U18 teams typically do not play those types of schedules and U18 games can be a joke much more often then they are at U16. The addition of U15 pure has made U16 somewhat weaker from what I've heard, but I'm not sure how true that is. These things vary from region to region and league to league.

As far as mackinnon goes, I did mention he was a late birthyear (ie "young" tenth grader). I believe that my statement that Shattuck loses players ahead of schedule (to the NTDP for example) therefore making the prep team weaker than it would be otherwise is still valid. This is also a factor for why U18 in general is weaker than people might think. This isn't a shattuck only thing, the more high-end players have or are about to move on from youth hockey before they turn 17 y/o in most cases.

 

[Bonin21]

Makes sense.

What many posters on here need to understand is when a kid is truly an elite prospect, his path won't matter. Any of these could make sense for his next two years after this one.
NTDP x2
Shattuck then USHL
USHL x2
Shattuck then WHL (rare for MN kid)
WHL x2 (rare for MN kid)

 

[tealhockey]

Makes sense.

What many posters on here need to understand is when a kid is truly an elite prospect, his path won't matter. Any of these could make sense for his next two years after this one.
NTDP x2
Shattuck then USHL
USHL x2
Shattuck then WHL (rare for MN kid)
WHL x2 (rare for MN kid)

agree. Everyone is different, what works (or doesn't) for one kid, may or may not work for another. The only path I don't love to see is Shattuck straight to D1, like Jackson LaCombe did, just because it feels like putting feet to the fire but I hope he does well. If a kid is good enough, he can make any path work, like Mittelstadt did (through college at least)

 

[Bonin21]

agree. Everyone is different, what works (or doesn't) for one kid, may or may not work for another. The only path I don't love to see is Shattuck straight to D1, like Jackson LaCombe did, just because it feels like putting feet to the fire but I hope he does well. If a kid is good enough, he can make any path work, like Mittelstadt did (through college at least)

Lacombe became an NHL prospect much later than Fleming. Fleming won't stay at Shattuck for three years unless his development stalls.

 

[tealhockey]

Lacombe became an NHL prospect much later than Fleming. Fleming won't stay at Shattuck for three years unless his development stalls.

LaCombe started playing defense a year older than Fleming is now, I'm not comparing them, nor implying that Fleming will take a similar path. LaCombe however is entering college at the same age other top-level NHL prospects are

 

[Artorius Horus T]

3rd in points for Shattuck St. Marys

1. Will Traeger (17 yrs) 5+5=10
2. Lucas Coon (18 yrs) 6+1=7
3. Maddox Fleming (15 yrs) 2+5=7

 

[Artorius Horus T]

HS Elite League teams - 2004 born - in games vs HS Elite League teams
Only 2 x 2004 born players in the top 100.

1. Nick Pierre (March 9th 2004) 8+8=16 (1.60 ppg)
2. Maddox Fleming (February 13th 2004) 2+5=7 (1.17 ppg)

Nick Pierre - Map South Hockey, UMHSEHL - 5 foot 9 winger
Maddox Fleming - Shattuck St. Mary's, USHS-Prep - 5 foot 11 center

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

I disagree with a lot of it...

MacKinnon not playing prep as a (young) tenth grader was an outlier. Prep as a tenth grader is absolutely an indication to start talking about a player as legit prospect as the big names from Shattuck mostly played prep as sophomores (Crosby, Jack Johnson, Keller, Toews I think, and so on).

And to act like U16 might be a "better" level for him to be dominating at, just no. He would just be racking up tons of points against inferior competition, like he did in HS.

It's not really about agreeing with it, Bonin, it's more about the way it's presented. Whether I agreed with all or none of what Teal wrote, I'd say the same thing.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

1+1 in a 4-2 W. - point streak now 4 games.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

All of his assists been primary assists. 1 PP goal 2 even numbers goals, 1 being a game winning goal.
All except 1 point been even numbers points.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Maddox is now 2nd in points for Shattuck, now only 2 points behind Will Traeger.
- once again, close to leading his team in points, has played for 6 different teams and has led his teams 7 times in scoring before
Shattuck St. Mary's; Rochester Mayo High x 2, MNBEL Great Plains, B15 District-9, 04 Minnesota Blades (WSI-U15), Team Red, Team Black

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Now that Shattuck isn't playing Elite League games until this 11th, anyone know where to get stats
from Shattuck's next 3 games? - vs Des Moines Buccaneers AAA ( x 2) and vs Team CCM -

edit: i guess i found for games vs Buccaneers AAA (no stats there yet but will be)
Home

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Buccaneer's roster:

CCM roster:

 

[tealhockey]

Now that Shattuck isn't playing Elite League games until this 11th, anyone know where to get stats
from Shattuck's next 3 games? - vs Des Moines Buccaneers AAA ( x 2) and vs Team CCM -

edit: i guess i found for games vs Buccaneers AAA (no stats there yet but will be)
Home

I wouldn't bet on it. If you need to know then look at his stats right now and then check shattuck's page when it updates, substract the totals and you'll see how he did. That said I don't think there is a need to update the stats of a 15 year-old game-by-game... we all know he's very good and we'll see how he does over the course of the year

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I wouldn't bet on it. If you need to know then look at his stats right now and then check shattuck's page when it updates, substract the totals and you'll see how he did. That said I don't think there is a need to update the stats of a 15 year-old game-by-game... we all know he's very good and we'll see how he does over the course of the year

I disagree, i think its very important and very helpful. It helps fans to keep in touch of the now.
There are fans who appreciate updates of such.

 

[tealhockey]

I disagree, i think its very important and very helpful. It helps fans to keep in touch of the now.
There are fans who appreciate updates of such.

I don't think it is important or helpful to know how he performs against, for example, the bottom-50 AAA U18 team he is playing this weekend. The end-of-season totals will be helpful enough, but agree to disagree.

 

[Bonin21]

Just check on Tuesday or Wednesday on the Shattuck website after game weekends. You're not going to always find stats for these games as they happen.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Just check on Tuesday or Wednesday on the Shattuck website after game weekends. You're not going to always find stats for these games as they happen.

Shattuck website still shows 18-19 season stats... edit: i guess not any more

 

[wetcoast]

Fleming was the best player on the ice these last two days without question. Could have had 6 or 7 points in each game. He is very very smart and it’s clearly evident he is going to be a great player at the next level. Speaking to the first three games, while the Elite League and OHL and WHL certainly aren’t the same caliber, it’s worth noting Other top prospects Matt Savoie and Shane Wright have struggled in the beginning of their seasons. I think the real test is seeing how they play when they are all fully adjusted.

It's great to see Fleming doing well and we are all looking forward to his progress but your last point is important as 2 of the other top players in that draft are playing in vastly better leagues so it's hard to gauge how everyone compares right now.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Shattuck has played 7 games, Shattuck website stats are after 6 games.