C Nico Hischier - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2017, 1st, NJD) II

[tigervixxxen]

I think he will be AHL eligible but that's a fairly debated topic among fans. I'd like if someone who really understands the rules, their intricacies and interpretations would chime in. I expect it won't matter regardless and he'll jump straight to the NHL. Not necessarily because it's best for him but the team picking 2OA usually needs the help and Hischier will be an upgrade.

Just look at Alex Nylander, Julius Honka. They went from playing import in CHL to AHL before 20 years of age. If he has a contract with a club in Europe then they say he was "on loan" is the reason they come up with. I'd be surprised if Nico is not in the AHL next year.

 

[portamoral]

Hischier reminds me of a slightly bigger Nik Ehlers

thats a pretty bad comparison. they play nothing alike.

sakic/zetterberg is a good one, he's also similar to o'reilly in some ways.

 

[IPreferPi]

thats a pretty bad comparison. they play nothing alike.

sakic/zetterberg is a good one, he's also similar to o'reilly in some ways.

I admit I haven't seen a lot of tape on Hischier as many of you, but even at that I don't see much similarity to ROR at all. I also think the Zetterberg comparison isn't a great one either.

 

[portamoral]

I admit I haven't seen a lot of tape on Hischier as many of you, but even at that I don't see much similarity to ROR at all. I also think the Zetterberg comparison isn't a great one either.

guess there are 2 things you could be looking at when you say one player "reminds" you of another.

in terms of his actual game, being a center and the style he plays, it's not similar to ehlers in any way. he has a more cerebral edge over ehlers and is even a little smarter distributing the puck and playing an all around game. ehlers is mainly an all out puck carrying offense driver whereas hischier is better at using his teammates and finding holes to get the puck back and being more involved around the puck in all 3 zones. he supports the puck very well but can also drive the bus himself if he needs to. ehlers is more of a do it himself or nothing, on the other hand.

if you wanna just compare their skillsets, then ya, you could say he is a bit similar to ehlers in that they are both tremendous skaters, have good vision and can shoot the puck. but other than that i don't think they are super comparable.

the bure comparison made by someone earlier is also quite accurate IMO. not necessarily just for his speed but for the way he played around the puck and how smart he is with it and without it.

 

[93LEAFS]

guess there are 2 things you could be looking at when you say one player "reminds" you of another.

in terms of his actual game, being a center and the style he plays, it's not similar to ehlers in any way. he has a more cerebral edge over ehlers and is even a little smarter distributing the puck and playing an all around game. ehlers is mainly an all out puck carrying offense driver whereas hischier is better at using his teammates and finding holes to get the puck back and being more involved around the puck in all 3 zones. he supports the puck very well but can also drive the bus himself if he needs to. ehlers is more of a do it himself or nothing, on the other hand.

if you wanna just compare their skillsets, then ya, you could say he is a bit similar to ehlers in that they are both tremendous skaters, have good vision and can shoot the puck. but other than that i don't think they are super comparable.

the bure comparison made by someone earlier is also quite accurate IMO. not necessarily just for his speed but for the way he played around the puck and how smart he is with it and without it.

I don't think there has been a great comparable for Hischier yet. I don't see Sakic, on the basis, Sakic had the best wrist shot in the game in his prime. Hischier's shot is good, but not elite sniper good.

Skill-set wise, he has a lot in common with William Nylander, but Hischeir has a much more complete and less-selfish game at the same age. Hischier has some of the amazing offensive instincts and balanced offensive repertoire. If Nylander didn't have those question marks, he goes significantly higher than 8. Neither Hischier or Patrick, might not be the type of franchise player you expect to build a cup team around, but they have the potential to be that 2nd to 4th best guy you need in a core.

Realistically, I think the realistic hope you have when picking Hischier is a Matt Duchene level center. Great wheels, solid all around game, good shot and no glaring weakness, but probably lacking that one thing that would make him a truly elite #1C. Now, he could exceed these expectations.

 

[portamoral]

I don't think there has been a great comparable for Hischier yet. I don't see Sakic, on the basis, Sakic had the best wrist shot in the game in his prime. Hischier's shot is good, but not elite sniper good.

Skill-set wise, he has a lot in common with William Nylander, but Hischeir has a much more complete and less-selfish game at the same age. Hischier has some of the amazing offensive instincts and balanced offensive repertoire. If Nylander didn't have those question marks, he goes significantly higher than 8. Neither Hischier or Patrick, might not be the type of franchise player you expect to build a cup team around, but they have the potential to be that 2nd to 4th best guy you need in a core.

Realistically, I think the realistic hope you have when picking Hischier is a Matt Duchene level center. Great wheels, solid all around game, good shot and no glaring weakness, but probably lacking that one thing that would make him a truly elite #1C. Now, he could exceed these expectations.

sure, he doesn't have as good of a shot. i was more so comparing his all around game and the look/style of his game to sakic's.

nylander does have some similarities in his skillset so i would agree with you there. however i disagree with the duchene part. hischier is much smarter and has an even better well rounded game so i think while it's safe to say he will at least be as good as that, realistically; he will most likely be even better. i see an elite player in nico, definitely a tier above that of duchene. don't think there is anything lacking that would stop him from being an elite C.

if you're referring to him doing everything well but nothing elite enough to make him that level of player, i would also disagree. his smarts are truly elite so, that, paired with his more than adequate skillset, should be enough to get him there.

 

[93LEAFS]

sure, he doesn't have as good of a shot. i was more so comparing his all around game and the look/style of his game to sakic's.

nylander does have some similarities in his skillset so i would agree with you there. however i disagree with the duchene part. hischier is much smarter and has an even better well rounded game so i think while it's safe to say he will at least be as good as that, realistically; he will most likely be even better. i see an elite player in nico, definitely a tier above that of duchene. don't think there is anything lacking that would stop him from being an elite C.

if you're referring to him doing everything well but nothing elite enough to make him that level of player, i would also disagree. his smarts are truly elite so, that, paired with his more than adequate skillset, should be enough to get him there.

I don't see him entering the tier of the high-end young centers of recent years, who I would give that I expect them to be elite grade too. Those guys were Matthews, MacKinnon, Eichel, Barkov, and Seguin (I'd probably put Eichel and Matthews a tier above Mackinnon, Barkov and Seguin) for guys drafted in the 2010's in regards to how they were viewed in pre-draft
. McDavid was on a different level. I don't think he has that "it" factor those guys had. So, I guess it depends on how you define elite. If I was drafting Hischier, I wouldn't expect him to consistently be a top 5 to 10 center in the league. Now, he could exceed expectations, but I'm expecting a prospect on par with Reinhart, Bennett, Galy, D. Strome, Draisaitl, Monahan, and PLD.

I think Duchene is a fine comparable for him in regards to expectations. Duchene is a solid 1B/2A guy, who some years play's like a true #1. Duchene is a guy who needs to be more consistent, but on his career average 60 points per 82 games played and had seasons of 65 plus. I don't think it is likely he will be significantly better than Duchene.

I guess it varies on where you put the cut-off of elite at. I like Patrick more than Hischier as a prospect, but I also wouldn't put him in the tier I defined as elite. I'd break it down like this. Realize, that players can exceed these expectations, but I'd put the potential I am giving them as probable outcomes, and how they were viewed at the draft (trying to ignore what happened since).

Best Center in the league potential/consistently best player in the league: McDavid

Top 5 center in the league with chances of Hart's in occasional years: Matthews, Eichel

Top 10 centers who can be a #1 center on a title contender: Mackinnon, Seguin and Barkov

Likely 1B/2A centers or top line wingers if they can't be centers: Patrick, D. Strome, Bennett, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Hischier, Ryan Johansen, RNH, PLD, and Monahan.

Now, some players since their draft may not be tracking as planned (most notably Bennett and to a lesser extent Mackinnon, while Barkov may have put himself in the potential top 5 category). Previous players who would have gone into my potential top 5 category are Stamkos and Tavares.

 

[portamoral]

I don't see him entering the tier of the high-end young centers of recent years, who I would give that I expect them to be elite grade too. Those guys were Matthews, MacKinnon, Eichel, Barkov, and Seguin (I'd probably put Eichel and Matthews a tier above Mackinnon, Barkov and Seguin) for guys drafted in the 2010's in regards to how they were viewed in pre-draft
. McDavid was on a different level. I don't think he has that "it" factor those guys had. So, I guess it depends on how you define elite. If I was drafting Hischier, I wouldn't expect him to consistently be a top 5 to 10 center in the league. Now, he could exceed expectations, but I'm expecting a prospect on par with Reinhart, Bennett, Galy, D. Strome, Draisaitl, Monahan, and PLD.

I think Duchene is a fine comparable for him in regards to expectations. Duchene is a solid 1B/2A guy, who some years play's like a true #1. Duchene is a guy who needs to be more consistent, but on his career average 60 points per 82 games played and had seasons of 65 plus. I don't think it is likely he will be significantly better than Duchene.

I guess it varies on where you put the cut-off of elite at.

hmm, i think he's easily on the level of mackinnon/barkov/seguin. his high IQ is what puts him there. i'd say he's smarter than mack and has a better all around game than seguin (who is just as smart offensively, defensively is another story). even eichel, who obviously has a bit more of a solid tool set but hischier is still smarter so it makes up for a lot of it.

you are comparing them as prospects though and i am kind of projecting them in the future which is different. but i do believe that hischier should be rated on a higher level if he were to be given the love he deserves. he's a pretty special prospect in my eyes. nico is definitely better than the last bunch of guys you mentioned, when you add up the sum of all their parts. his tools match his elite smarts. most of those guys are lacking one or the other to some extent.

you're right though, it does matter how you define elite. i just think he has more to give than duchene, judging by his higher IQ.

 

[93LEAFS]

hmm, i think he's easily on the level of mackinnon/barkov/seguin. his high IQ is what puts him there. i'd say he's smarter than mack and has a better all around game than seguin (who is just as smart offensively, defensively is another story). even eichel, who obviously has a bit more of a solid tool set but hischier is still smarter so it makes up for a lot of it.

you are comparing them as prospects though and i am kind of projecting them in the future which is different. but i do believe that hischier should be rated on a higher level if he were to be given the love he deserves. he's a pretty special prospect in my eyes. nico is definitely better than the last bunch of guys you mentioned, when you add up the sum of all their parts. his tools match his elite smarts. most of those guys are lacking one or the other to some extent.

you're right though, it does matter how you define elite. i just think he has more to give than duchene, judging by his higher IQ.

I think he's notably behind them, by eye-test and by the numbers. Seguin numbers blow Hischier's out the water when adjusted for age and league. Mackinnon might be the more debatable one, but I'd still put Barkov and Mackinnon ahead by a decent margin at the time of their drafts.

I don't think Nico is a better prospect than Bennett, Reinhart or Dylan Strome at the time they were drafted. He's on their level, and you can argue he's the best of them (which I disagree with), but to put him a tier above them is reaching in my mind. I think you are forgetting to what level Mackinnon was viewed at, at the time of his draft. He's was the best player for Halifax in their chase for the Memorial Cup during the playoffs.

 

[portamoral]

I think he's notably behind them, by eye-test and by the numbers. Seguin numbers blow Hischier's out the water when adjusted for age and league. Mackinnon might be the more debatable one, but I'd still put Barkov and Mackinnon ahead by a decent margin at the time of their drafts.

I don't think Nico is a better prospect than Bennett, Reinhart or Dylan Strome at the time they were drafted. He's on their level, and you can argue he's the best of them (which I disagree with), but to put him a tier above them is reaching in my mind. I think you are forgetting to what level Mackinnon was viewed at, at the time of his draft. He's was the best player for Halifax in their chase for the Memorial Cup during the playoffs.

guess we will have different views depending on if we go strictly off of draft numbers for comparables versus eye-test. the method you are using to categorize each tier may have benefits in some ways but it also doesn't account for the differences in tools between players and why some don't do as well at the next level as the other guy he's grouped with.

i'll admit its a pretty simple approach and production is production to some extent, tools aside, but there is a reason why mack/barkov/seguin were in the same group and mackinnon isn't doing as well as the other 2. it comes down to his IQ. in junior he had the elite tools to put up good numbers (as does anyone in the same boat - see tippett from this year), but you need a lot of smarts to fully carry it over to the NHL which hischier has in abundance.

when you add in his crazy skating ability, hands, shot, vision, not to mention great D game to the equation i just don't see how you could say he won't be as good as those guys. what makes you think that from an eye-test level? because points in junior don't tell you everything i'm sure you know.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

guess we will have different views depending on if we go strictly off of draft numbers for comparables versus eye-test. the method you are using to categorize each tier may have benefits in some ways but it also doesn't account for the differences in tools between players and why some don't do as well at the next level as the other guy he's grouped with.

i'll admit its a pretty simple approach and production is production to some extent, tools aside, but there is a reason why mack/barkov/seguin were in the same group and mackinnon isn't doing as well as the other 2. it comes down to his IQ. in junior he had the elite tools to put up good numbers (as does anyone in the same boat - see tippett from this year), but you need a lot of smarts to fully carry it over to the NHL which hischier has in abundance.

when you add in his crazy skating ability, hands, shot, vision, not to mention great D game to the equation i just don't see how you could say he won't be as good as those guys. what makes you think that from an eye-test level? because points in junior don't tell you everything i'm sure you know.

Of course points do not tell the entire story, hence why MacKinnon was seen as the better prospect than Drouin who put up over 2ppg and won CHL player of the year.

I've said it a few times on here but I'll say it again, out of MacK, Drouin, Ehlers, Meier and Hischier, the only one I would take Hischier over is Meier. That's coming from my eye test and numerous live viewings of each player. To each their own, but I do not think Hischier is on the level of Mackinnon or JD were, and could be debated with Ehlers.


Obviously things can change in the pros and Ehlers is having the best season out of all the Halifax guys I mentioned, but on draft day I would say he was clear cut below the big 2 from 2013. Hischier to me is right there with Ehlers at the same time in development.

 

[93LEAFS]

guess we will have different views depending on if we go strictly off of draft numbers for comparables versus eye-test. the method you are using to categorize each tier may have benefits in some ways but it also doesn't account for the differences in tools between players and why some don't do as well at the next level as the other guy he's grouped with.

i'll admit its a pretty simple approach and production is production to some extent, tools aside, but there is a reason why mack/barkov/seguin were in the same group and mackinnon isn't doing as well as the other 2. it comes down to his IQ. in junior he had the elite tools to put up good numbers (as does anyone in the same boat - see tippett from this year), but you need a lot of smarts to fully carry it over to the NHL which hischier has in abundance.

when you add in his crazy skating ability, hands, shot, vision, not to mention great D game to the equation i just don't see how you could say he won't be as good as those guys. what makes you think that from an eye-test level? because points in junior don't tell you everything i'm sure you know.

Mackinnon had significantly better physical tools. He was faster, stronger and had a better shot. The only thing Hischier has on him at the junior level is his vision. Mackinnon has also put up good numbers at the NHL at times. Hischier's a good skater, I wouldn't call his skating ability crazy. If it was elite at you seem to imply it is, he would of dummied the on-ice combine at the top prospects like elite skating players do (see Mackinnon and McDavid).

I believe you are overvaluing Hischier's IQ, I think he's smart, but not in that 5% of the league which he would need to be to be a truly elite player. I also think he is fairly weak on the puck in tight spaces compared to other players.

You also should realized, you are the one most likely in the minority in saying that he will be better than the guys I put him in that tier with.

And when did I say strictly by the numbers? If I went strictly by the numbers, I would have Dylan Strome way higher. But, you do have to acknowledge them. Hischier's good, but I don't think he's a clear cut franchise center, and carries more risk than Mackinnon, Barkov and Seguin did.

 

[portamoral]

Of course points do not tell the entire story, hence why MacKinnon was seen as the better prospect than Drouin who put up over 2ppg and won CHL player of the year.

I've said it a few times on here but I'll say it again, out of MacK, Drouin, Ehlers, Meier and Hischier, the only one I would take Hischier over is Meier. That's coming from my eye test and numerous live viewings of each player. To each their own, but I do not think Hischier is on the level of Mackinnon or JD were, and could be debated with Ehlers.


Obviously things can change in the pros and Ehlers is having the best season out of all the Halifax guys I mentioned, but on draft day I would say he was clear cut below the big 2 from 2013. Hischier to me is right there with Ehlers at the same time in development.

i know scouts take both production and physical tools gathered from eye-test scouting into account when grading a prospect, i was just saying that to 93leafs who was mainly comparing them using their junior numbers. but he also did mention eye test as well.

if drouin was a bit bigger he would have went higher. i have always said he was the better player due to his insane IQ and should have been chosen first. NHL scouts seem to care so much for physical tools and size when being smart is the best asset a player can have IMO.

if i were to rate them it'd be drouin/hischier/ehlers/mackinnon. nico and nikolaj are close to the same level but i like the fact hischier is a little smarter than ehlers and plays C. i think drouin and hischier are extremely close while mackinnon is clearly a step below since his IQ isn't as good, even though his physical tools pick up a lot of the slack in his game.

 

[portamoral]

Mackinnon had significantly better physical tools. He was faster, stronger and had a better shot. The only thing Hischier has on him at the junior level is his vision. Mackinnon has also put up good numbers at the NHL at times. Hischier's a good skater, I wouldn't call his skating ability crazy. If it was elite at you seem to imply it is, he would of dummied the on-ice combine at the top prospects like elite skating players do (see Mackinnon and McDavid).

I believe you are overvaluing Hischier's IQ, I think he's smart, but not in that 5% of the league which he would need to be to be a truly elite player. I also think he is fairly weak on the puck in tight spaces compared to other players.

You also should realized, you are the one most likely in the minority in saying that he will be better than the guys I put him in that tier with.

And when did I say strictly by the numbers? If I went strictly by the numbers, I would have Dylan Strome way higher. But, you do have to acknowledge them. Hischier's good, but I don't think he's a clear cut franchise center, and carries more risk than Mackinnon, Barkov and Seguin did.

maybe not strictly by the numbers, but you seem to be rating them mainly off of numbers. i definitely did not have dylan strome as high as everyone did due to the fact he was lacking in skating, compete level, strength, and shot release. although he is a smart player, some of these deficiencies can't be made up from IQ alone.

even if hischier's skating isn't as elite as mcdavid's, it's still really good. same with his IQ.. he clearly doesn't have any weaknesses besides needing to get stronger which is fixable. when you add it all up i don't see how he shouldn't be considered as good as those other guys.

 

[93LEAFS]

maybe not strictly by the numbers, but you seem to be rating them mainly off of numbers. i definitely did not have dylan strome as high as everyone did due to the fact he was lacking in skating, compete level, strength, and shot release. although he is a smart player, some of these deficiencies can't be made up from IQ alone.

even if hischier's skating isn't as elite as mcdavid's, it's still really good. same with his IQ.. he clearly doesn't have any weaknesses besides needing to get stronger which is fixable. when you add it all up i don't see how he shouldn't be considered as good as those other guys.

I am not primarily rating by the numbers. It is a pretty ridiculous claim to belittle how I view Hischier. If I was rating by the numbers, I would have Yamamoto and Suzuki at the top of the draft, and Tippett and Vilardi ahead of Hischier. If I rated them only off adjusted numbers, I would have Dylan Strome as the 2nd best center prospect from the CHL in the 2010's. Do I account for them? Yes, because they remove some level of cognitive bias, and give an objective viewpoint.

I just don't think Hischier is as good as you claim he is, and I would think most people would agree with me. It doesn't mean I'm right or your wrong. Your free to think whatever you want, but if you think I'm going just by numbers you are missing the point. I think Mackinnon and Seguin had much better all around tool kits entering the league. I expect Hischier to be a consistent 80 point threat in the NHL. Mackinnon has been disappointing, but at the draft I thought that was a realistic outcome for him.

Hischier's skating is good, but I wouldn't put it in the uber elite tier, its good, at best a 70 on a 80 point scale, more likely a 65. He's well rounded, but out of the 5 guys I clearly have above him, the only guy I expect him to play at the level at as of now is Mackinnon. I would be very surprised if he ended up consistently better than Matthews, Eichel, Barkov and Seguin. In my eyes, he's a Matt Duchene level prospect. You seem to think he's a potential top 10 center in the league. In 10 years we will see who was right or if both of us were wrong.

 

[Tripod]

No comments on a night where he has 3 points.

 

[JA]

Nico Hischier broke his slump with a three-assist performance yesterday.

Here is the second of those three assists:

 

[JA]

A few GIFs:

If you are on mobile and are concerned about data, do not view this collection of GIFs. Otherwise, enjoy.

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[JA]

There are an abundance of similarities, especially their fearlessness and tenacity:

If you are on mobile and are concerned about data, do not view this collection of GIFs. Otherwise, enjoy.

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[landy92mack29]

Another game with 0 points for him last night and only 4 points in the last 8 games with 3 of them coming in 1 game. The last couple times I've watched him he's looked lost in the defensive zone and is leaving the zone early to try and create offense which isn't good for a center. He's also below 50% on draws on the year. I'm starting to question whether he'll be a center in the NHL but rather a scoring winger.

 

[Jarey Curry]

i know scouts take both production and physical tools gathered from eye-test scouting into account when grading a prospect, i was just saying that to 93leafs who was mainly comparing them using their junior numbers. but he also did mention eye test as well.

if drouin was a bit bigger he would have went higher. i have always said he was the better player due to his insane IQ and should have been chosen first. NHL scouts seem to care so much for physical tools and size when being smart is the best asset a player can have IMO.

if i were to rate them it'd be drouin/hischier/ehlers/mackinnon. nico and nikolaj are close to the same level but i like the fact hischier is a little smarter than ehlers and plays C. i think drouin and hischier are extremely close while mackinnon is clearly a step below since his IQ isn't as good, even though his physical tools pick up a lot of the slack in his game.

By what tier you claim Drouin to be more proven and deserving a higher placement than Mackinnon? And even Hischier who hasn't played a single nhl game. Mackinnon ain't a genius but he ain't dumb either. His preferred style of play and personality on ice is very dynamic, full throttle and everything or nothing type of deal. That's why he and Drouin had some serious chemistry together when he had a nifty wizard next to him controlling the pace a bit and calming the storm.

 

[VictorLustig]

Agree with Button on this one. Hischier looks so much like a younger Zetterberg.

 

[CanuckCity]

How does he compare to Sam Bennett? Both hype/projection & style wise? Love Hischiers's tenacity and fiestiness even as a 'smaller' forward. Bennett was the first guy i thought of when seeing his highlights but that could be way off

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

What's up with Hischier? Has he decided to play in Europe next year or is he waiting to see if the team that drafts him will give him a shot to crack their lineup.

Is he physically ready for the NHL game?

 

[Patmac40]

What's up with Hischier? Has he decided to play in Europe next year or is he waiting to see if the team that drafts him will give him a shot to crack their lineup.

Is he physically ready for the NHL game?

He'd have no reason to make that decision now, so no one would know that yet.

And he is definitely very slight but 4 of the top 15 scoring rookie forwards aren't even 180lbs this year so it might not be as big a hindrance as people will believe. If he shows in training camp he can stick, there should be no reason not to play him.