C Mitchell Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) IV

[Maplebeasts]

There is something to many of the low BMI players at June's draft not really seeing any change developmentally in the first half of 2015-2016.

I expect guys like Mitchell Marner and Brad Morrison, to name another, to experience a wave of development in the near future. It's possible their physical development, weight gain specifically, hasn't crossed a threshold yet to affect their skill application markedly.

There's no need to press the panic button on Marner. It was his first pointless game in ages, and he is easily amongst the top players in the CHL. Weight gain would be nice, but let's not pretend like he hasn't applied his skill well this season.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I really don't think Marner will be in the NHL at the start of next season. Europe (perhaps Modo?) would be the best option imho.

 

[beachcomber]

I really don't think Marner will be in the NHL at the start of next season. Europe (perhaps Modo?) would be the best option imho.

He doesn't belong in the NHL next year. Bring him along slowly. He is no Patrick Kane

 

[Steamwhistle]

Was at the game tonight in Guelph, was very disappointed with his performance. The whole London team was relatively bad, but Marner had some really stupid turnovers. A lot of blind passes in the O-zone, had some really long shifts and was holding on to the puck a little too much. The one thing I was impressed with was his work ethic, back checked on every play. I was pretty let down because I don't get to see London too often and the one time I do they get shut out

 

[NarcoPolo]

He doesn't belong in the NHL next year. Bring him along slowly. He is no Patrick Kane

Isn't he though

 

[LeafGrief]

I think Marner will be in the NHL next year. He probably wont light the league on fire, but 30-40 points and sheltered minutes is fine with me. The real value is giving him the time with Babcock and furthering his development. He's got all the talent in the world, it's time for a new challenge and even better coaching.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Was at the game tonight in Guelph, was very disappointed with his performance. The whole London team was relatively bad, but Marner had some really stupid turnovers. A lot of blind passes in the O-zone, had some really long shifts and was holding on to the puck a little too much. The one thing I was impressed with was his work ethic, back checked on every play. I was pretty let down because I don't get to see London too often and the one time I do they get shut out

I wouldn't worry about it. Marner's bad games are few and far between.

 

[4thline]

I think Marner will be in the NHL next year. He probably wont light the league on fire, but 30-40 points and sheltered minutes is fine with me. The real value is giving him the time with Babcock and furthering his development. He's got all the talent in the world, it's time for a new challenge and even better coaching.

That's a good point. He could still develop in the O, but it's not likely. What's in his best interests in terms of pro development is not his teams best interest in terms of winning hockey games.

 

[Advanced stats]

A little OT, but its relate able to Marner and about 3 other prospects.
When and who instituted the NHL - CHL player agreement? The one that says that players must be returned to the CHL if they aren't in the NHL until the age of 20. Does it ever expire? Can the NHL opt out of it? Can they buy it out?(pay the CHL a lump sum and destroy the documents?) I get the point of it, but in some cases its hurting players, so in my opinion the NHL should opt out and tell the CHL to suck it.
Thoughts? Thanks for answering questions!

 

[TheGroceryStick]

A little OT, but its relate able to Marner and about 3 other prospects.
When and who instituted the NHL - CHL player agreement? The one that says that players must be returned to the CHL if they aren't in the NHL until the age of 20. Does it ever expire? Can the NHL opt out of it? Can they buy it out?(pay the CHL a lump sum and destroy the documents?) I get the point of it, but in some cases its hurting players, so in my opinion the NHL should opt out and tell the CHL to suck it.
Thoughts? Thanks for answering questions!

I really don't understand it - If a player is too good for the CHL and not good enough for the NHL, the logical solution is to play in the AHL or overseas.

I get the idea that the CHL is trying to keep players as long as they can - but it really doesn't make sense for the progression of these prospects. Something that the CHL should be fully aware of - You (Jr. Hockey) is a stepping stone for these players, and at no point should you interfere with their progression.

AHLers having to play in the World Jrs. makes total sense - I like that rule. However, a guy like Marner should be playing pro hockey next year - and the fact people are speculating that he move overseas is ridiculous. He should be in Toronto, training at the facilities and under the close eye of the NHL team. This agreement needs to be scraped - they allow "exceptional" players into their league early, yet don't let 'exceptional' players out when they are too good. Grow a pair NHL and get rid of this crap.

 

[Advanced stats]

I really don't understand it - If a player is too good for the CHL and not good enough for the NHL, the logical solution is to play in the AHL or overseas.

I get the idea that the CHL is trying to keep players as long as they can - but it really doesn't make sense for the progression of these prospects. Something that the CHL should be fully aware of - You (Jr. Hockey) is a stepping stone for these players, and at no time should you interfere with their progression.

AHLers having to play in the World Jrs. makes total sense - I like that rule. However, a guy like Marner should be playing pro hockey next year - and the fact people are speculating that he move overseas is ridiculous. He should be in Toronto, training at the facilities and under the close eye of the NHL team.

Agreed 100%...which still makes me ask who formulated this agreement, and how can it be ended. Like I have no idea who instated it or when...or does it ever expire?

 

[Menzinger]

If you take away the CHL's biggest stars attendance will plummet and teams will fold - something the NHL does not want to see happen

 

[93LEAFS]

If you take away the CHL's biggest stars attendance will plummet and teams will fold - something the NHL does not want to see happen

Not just that, but it will slowly erode the talent of the league leading to it being less effective developing players. Marner benefited from playing Nurse, Nurse benefited by playing against Mark Scheifele and so on. Taking this talent away from the CHL, will probably lead to players spending longer in the AHL. While it wouldn't be extreme realize how no player has gone straight from the USHL to the NHL and that league losses most of its top talent at 18.

 

[Advanced stats]

If you take away the CHL's biggest stars attendance will plummet and teams will fold - something the NHL does not want to see happen

I think the CHL could easily adapt to having their biggest stars only playing up to their draft year, or D+1 year.

To say that teams will fold is a huge exaggeration. the big stars play on big name teams in the CHL that have markets that will support them whether these big name starts play up till their draft year or not.

My thought is, if you keep these big stars in the CHL, at the very least you risk their development, also something the the CHL and NHL dont want. Development is not always hurt by playing in the CHL, but in some cases the most ideal league for players of Marner, Strome, and Provorov's level is the AHL.

What about a agreement where NHL teams can place one draftee in the AHL every 2 or 3 years? in addition the CHL team could also get a reimbursement from the NHL team.

 

[TheCLAM]

I think the CHL could easily adapt to having their biggest stars only playing up to their draft year, or D+1 year.

To say that teams will fold is a huge exaggeration. the big stars play on big name teams in the CHL that have markets that will support them whether these big name starts play up till their draft year or not.

My thought is, if you keep these big stars in the CHL, at the very least you risk their development, also something the the CHL and NHL dont want. Development is not always hurt by playing in the CHL, but in some cases the most ideal league for players of Marner, Strome, and Provorov's level is the AHL.

What about a agreement where NHL teams can place one draftee in the AHL every 2 or 3 years? in addition the CHL team could also get a reimbursement from the NHL team.

The current rules work best for the CHL, not the whole league. When you eliminat post-draft players you risk decreasing player talent overall and fan desirability. As a student in the Niagara Region I frequently enjoy watching players like Perlini, Stome, Ho-Sang, Hamilton. It draws a crowd for the average part time hockey fan

 

[Claypool]

If you take away the CHL's biggest stars attendance will plummet and teams will fold - something the NHL does not want to see happen

I don't think the NHL really cares about the CHL at all. It has no vested interest in the league. In fact, I'm sure the NHL would prefer to have players like Marner suiting up for the Marlies right now.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I don't think the NHL really cares about the CHL at all. It has no vested interest in the league. In fact, I'm sure the NHL would prefer to have players like Marner suiting up for the Marlies right now.

The NHL absolutely has a vested interest in the CHL or they wouldn't have agreed to the CHL-NHL player agreement....They weren't forced into it.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I don't think the NHL really cares about the CHL at all. It has no vested interest in the league. In fact, I'm sure the NHL would prefer to have players like Marner suiting up for the Marlies right now.

Well this is silly. Not every prospect drafted is ready to step into a pro league at the age of 18. The CHL is needed as a developmental path for future NHL stars.

 

[Advanced stats]

Why don't the NHL, CHL and AHL have a vested interest in what's best for the players? The CHL and AHL are development leagues...that's the point here. In the best interest of Marner, Strome and Provorov, their development is best served in the AHL currently. That's where they are challenged and taught properly after "conquering" the CHL already. Why don't these leagues care about their players than?

 

[93LEAFS]

Why don't the NHL, CHL and AHL have a vested interest in what's best for the players? The CHL and AHL are development leagues...that's the point here. In the best interest of Marner, Strome and Provorov, their development is best served in the AHL currently. That's where they are challenged and taught properly after "conquering" the CHL already. Why don't these leagues care about their players than?

Except your forgetting about the development of the 16 and 17 year olds who develop because they get to play against top 18 and 19 year olds, which also benefits the NHL. Its not as simple as you are portraying it.

 

[Advanced stats]

Except your forgetting about the development of the 16 and 17 year olds who develop because they get to play against top 18 and 19 year olds, which also benefits the NHL. Its not as simple as you are portraying it.

I think your overstating the benefits of 16 and 17 year olds playing against 18 and 19 year olds.
Having gone through the system partially, I can tell you that coaching and playing time are much much more beneficial to a 16 year olds development, than watching marner's and strome's play puck hog and keep away.

And your missing the point...this is about all star CHLers development. Which is a flawed system where some of them are not being developed properly.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think your overstating the benefits of 16 and 17 year olds playing against 18 and 19 year olds.
Having gone through the system partially, I can tell you that coaching and playing time are much much more beneficial to a 16 year olds development, than watching marner's and strome's play puck hog and keep away.

And your missing the point...this is about all star CHLers development. Which is a flawed system where some of them are not being developed properly.

Except your missing the point, Marner and Strome wouldn't be as far along if they didn't play against Nurse or Bigras. By taking away the more talented players your just putting a further onus on developing them at the AHL level. Its not perfect, but your just creating another problem to solve one that isn't major to begin with. Look at the USHL and how no one goes straight from it to the show, partially because the talented 18 and 19 year olds all leave.

 

[Paxon]

Except your missing the point, Marner and Strome wouldn't be as far along if they didn't play against Nurse or Bigras. By taking away the more talented players your just putting a further onus on developing them at the AHL level. Its not perfect, but your just creating another problem to solve one that isn't major to begin with. Look at the USHL and how no one goes straight from it to the show, partially because the talented 18 and 19 year olds all leave.

Yes, but the talented 18 and 19 year olds of the USHL leave to play against older, better competition in the NCAA, which is somewhat comparable to 18 or 19 year olds leaving the CHL to play in the AHL as proposed. Your argument should take this into account as it seems to be a bit contradictory. I agree that the problem isn't particularly major to begin with and nothing need be drastically altered if at all.

 

[93LEAFS]

Yes, but the talented 18 and 19 year olds of the USHL leave to play against older, better competition in the NCAA, which is somewhat comparable to 18 or 19 year olds leaving the CHL to play in the AHL as proposed. Your argument should take this into account as it seems to be a bit contradictory. I agree that the problem isn't particularly major to begin with and nothing need be drastically altered if at all.

I'm not saying its perfect and a decent amount of top USHL guys go the CHL route (Tkachuk, Milano, Kane, etc), I'm just saying due to this no one makes the jump from the USHL straight to the NHL (Eichel and Matthews probably could have done it). My point was more your creating a different problem rather than actually solving something. I doubt it would lead to a better development system, just an altered one.

 

[Advanced stats]

Except your missing the point, Marner and Strome wouldn't be as far along if they didn't play against Nurse or Bigras. By taking away the more talented players your just putting a further onus on developing them at the AHL level. Its not perfect, but your just creating another problem to solve one that isn't major to begin with. Look at the USHL and how no one goes straight from it to the show, partially because the talented 18 and 19 year olds all leave.

If the rules allowed, how many current CHLers would be in the AHL now? At max, 10?? 3 per league?
To say that CHL 16 and 17 year olds would be less developed because 3 over agers per league were in the AHL instead of with their junior teams is absolute insanity.