C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft)

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Regardless of what happened after, Kane wasn't considered a great 1OA prospect. Kane wasn't even playing in NTDP u-18 as a u-17 player and it's hard to name even one thing he was better at at Jack's age(maybe shot?). How good Jack is at his size is unprecedented so past comparisons don't apply. You judge him in a vacuum.

What's your point about centers? Because you are missing mine. Being an overall better player doesn't mean you will break the mold that the others couldn't. Being good at playing center requires certain skills. You are saying that because there's no precedent and you are a fan, any type of analysis need not apply about his qualifications to play center. I'm done arguing with you about this, if this is the logic you are going to use. Tell me why he will fit at center. Don't respond with rubbish.

And some of what you say also is flawed. Hughes stats are unprecedented, but he played on the best U17 NTDP team the USA has ever had so inflated stats there, and the U18 NTDP team was one of the best U18 teams the USA has had, so more inflated stats. The case for Hughes is a good one based on his skill-set, its a poor one when people are making references to his stats. Past comparisons certainly do apply. Its debatable whether he's better or worse than recent guys like Eichel and Matthews, and past guys like Kane.

 

[Daximus]

What's your point about centers? Because you are missing mine. Being an overall better player doesn't mean you will break the mold that the others couldn't. Being good at playing center requires certain skills. You are saying that because there's no precedent and you are a fan, any type of analysis need not apply about his qualifications to play center. I'm done arguing with you about this, if this is the logic you are going to use. Tell me why he will fit at center. Don't respond with rubbish.

And some of what you say also is flawed. Hughes stats are unprecedented, but he played on the best U17 NTDP team the USA has ever had so inflated stats there, and the U18 NTDP team was one of the best U18 teams the USA has had, so more inflated stats. The case for Hughes is a good one based on his skill-set, its a poor one when people are making references to his stats. Past comparisons certainly do apply. Its debatable whether he's better or worse than recent guys like Eichel and Matthews, and past guys like Kane.

Think of it this way, if he was 6'3 people would be foaming at the mouth about this kid. People wouldn't give a rats ass about his defensive anything and he'd be put at center with literally the exact same skillset he has now. The only thing that gives anyone pause is his frame. He could literally be the worst defensive forward in the entire draft class but it wouldn't matter because if he was 6'3 with his offensive skillset he would fit the mold everyone envisions as being the model center.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pre-draft yeah Hughes is better than Kane, Marner, Drouin, Keller. Kane never played center. I think a reason Marner switched to wing was because there wasnt really an immediate need for him to play center in Toronto. Drouin doesnt move well enough to be a center. And Keller is probably a bit too perimeter to play center, although i could see him switching over as his career goes forward. Hughes is a better skater than all of those 4 mentioned, and the game is turning into a skaters game. I think he could be the guy to break the stereotype that only big and strong guys can play up the middle

Kane has played some center at just about every level. Maybe he wasn't a regular center in Junior, but I'm pretty sure he played some games at center. Prior to junior, he was only a center. And he's been tried at center in the NHL a couple times, as well. It doesn't fit his game. Read up on some of the things that were said years ago why he could play center. Same things that are said now about Hughes. Being a better skater, a smarter player and more skilled than your competition doesn't alone qualify you to play center. There are certain skills you need to have to play the position well from a positional standpoint. I'm sure Hughes could fake it and still play very well. He does in juniors. He's a very good hockey player, but will it positionally be best for him or for the team? I think Hughes is a better prospect than Kane, but we are talking small margins here. So being slightly better at most aspects of the game shouldn't really give him the advantage in playing center over Kane. The aspects that I named in the post you quoted are what would.

As for the others, they could probably fake it, as well. The Habs tried to have Drouin fake it this year. There will probably be a time where those others play center for a stretch over their careers when their teams need it. But I suspect the majority of their career they will be playing wing because thats their best position and thats where they fit best for their team. I suspect it'll be the same for Hughes.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Think of it this way, if he was 6'3 people would be foaming at the mouth about this kid. People wouldn't give a rats ass about his defensive anything and he'd be put at center with literally the exact same skillset he has now. The only thing that gives anyone pause is his frame. He could literally be the worst defensive forward in the entire draft class but it wouldn't matter because if he was 6'3 with his offensive skillset he would fit the mold everyone envisions as being the model center.

Maybe so, I just don't understand the insistence to play the "what if" game. What if his brother was 6'3? Would he be better than Dahlin? Play Hughes where he's best suited. Don't pigeon-hole him. Maybe we'll see big changes in his game in the next few years. Lets see what happens. I personally think his playing style is right up that Kane, Marner, Keller type of alley, and he'll be a more effective winger than center.

 

[NA Hockey]

Think of it this way, if he was 6'3 people would be foaming at the mouth about this kid. People wouldn't give a rats ass about his defensive anything and he'd be put at center with literally the exact same skillset he has now. The only thing that gives anyone pause is his frame. He could literally be the worst defensive forward in the entire draft class but it wouldn't matter because if he was 6'3 with his offensive skillset he would fit the mold everyone envisions as being the model center.

Don't you think people already are "foaming at the mouth about this kid"? How much more hype, publicity can one player get? It's almost getting to the point where there will be no way for the poor kid to meet the hype. If he doesn't meet all the lofty expectations that people (many who have not seen him live 3 times) have put on him, I hope they don't crucify him for being merely an "excellent" hockey player rather than ":generational"

 

[Daximus]

Maybe so, I just don't understand the insistence to play the "what if" game. What if his brother was 6'3? Would he be better than Dahlin? Play Hughes where he's best suited. Don't pigeon-hole him. Maybe we'll see big changes in his game in the next few years. Lets see what happens. I personally think his playing style is right up that Kane, Marner, Keller type of alley, and he'll be a more effective winger than center.

He's definitely more of a passer. But that doesn't mean much you can be a playmaker from anywhere on the ice. One area that he really excels at is down low. Kid has ridiculously good edgework and can protect the puck as well as anyone I've seen outside of Crosby at this age, which is a great skillset for a center to have as they can work the puck down low and the wingers provide support and go to the net . But on the contrary he does love to sit at the right half wall a lot of the time and dictate the play from there as well. Realistically he could do either IMO and be a very productive player. The one thing that really lends itself to him being a center is most high end goalscorers are going to be wingers so it would make sense to let him be in an area where he has the ability to dictate the play, which is by far and large at center, especially when he transitions from defence to offence as he's always in the support position waiting for the pass from the dman and he's an incredible skater and really good at gaining the zone so he will likely be the one leading the attack in transition.

Edit:
To add onto that. The team that drafts him will also be an indicator of whether he gets a lot of chances to stick at center. I can imagine if he goes to Montreal he will be given every and all opportunity to prove he can stick at center and be their 1C. Whereas if Ottawa wins the lotto and he goes to the Avs, where they already have MacK and Jost, he will likely be eased in on Jost's wing. Where he can be the playmaker for Jost, who is more of a shooter and then work his way up to playing with MacKinnon on tougher matchups.

 

[Daximus]

Don't you think people already are "foaming at the mouth about this kid"? How much more hype, publicity can one player get? It's almost getting to the point where there will be no way for the poor kid to meet the hype. If he doesn't meet all the lofty expectations that people (many who have not seen him live 3 times) have put on him, I hope they don't crucify him for being merely an "excellent" hockey player rather than ":generational"

I don't think anyone has mentioned the term generational until you just did. He's also getting nowhere near the hype Eichel or Matthews got. A lot of that has to do with his size for sure. If he had Matthews frame there would be much much muuuuuuch higher expectations for this kid. He's projected to go first overall still so there will be the normal amount of hype a player gets by the hockey media. It's literally their job to get people excited about hockey.