C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft)

[Whalers Fan]

5 points (4g, 1a) for Jack in USHL action tonight to set the NTDP single season point record for a U17 player. He broke Clayton Keller's previous U17 player record in 15 less games.

He's having an amazing season. Too bad this was a road game -- I would have loved watching this one.

 

[Frannel]

I don't think he's generational, so I'd say closer to Matthews/Eichel/MacKinnon/Tavares/Stamkos territory. He gives me Patrick Kane vibes. Matthews and Eichel's edge is they basically fit the exact profile you want out of a potential franchise center with there size and complete skill set.

I understand you value size a lot, but the numbers in the NTDP records are from the season's start, so odds are he has grown a bit since then... you don't think he will grow a bit more? I've seen a picture of the three brothers where it looks like he has already caught up to his older sib Quinton... and he doesn't look that much smaller than Wahlstrom either... Just curious.
Also, why don't you think he's generational? What makes a player generational in contrast to "simply" franchise?

 

[Riggins]

Also, why don't you think he's generational? What makes a player generational in contrast to "simply" franchise?

Because "generational" is used way too loosely by too many people. Around here generational players show up every 2-3 years.

 

[93LEAFS]

I understand you value size a lot, but the numbers in the NTDP records are from the season's start, so odds are he has grown a bit since then... you don't think he will grow a bit more? I've seen a picture of the three brothers where it looks like he has already caught up to his older sib Quinton... and he doesn't look that much smaller than Wahlstrom either... Just curious.
Also, why don't you think he's generational? What makes a player generational in contrast to "simply" franchise?

Hughes wouldn’t go ahead of McDavid for drafts of the last 5 years. If you aren’t the runaway best prospect over 5 years you aren’t generational. He’s a high-end talent but he’s not noticeably above Matthews or Eichel given their respective skill set and still lags behind McDavid.

He’s significantly smaller than Wahlstrom. Wahlstrom is way thicker and has at least 2 to 3 inches on him.

I don’t value size a lot, but his size and play style scream winger at the next level.

 

[93LEAFS]

Because "generational" is used way too loosely by too many people. Around here generational players show up every 2-3 years.

Apparently there are like 7 since the 2015 draft (McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine, Dahlin, Hughes and Lafreniere).

 

[AmericanDream]

Still early obviously, but in terms of potential is he closer to a McDavid or Matthews?

you don't see numbers like this too often....when he smokes the player you are comparing him to (Matthews) in points in their u17 season, you have to believe his ceiling is higher than that...is he at a McDavid level? That I don't want to say, but if there is any player in the next few years that can challenge McDavid, this seems to be the kid. Different style of player than Matthews and McDavid as he is a bit undersized, but I haven't seen skill like this in a while.

 

[93LEAFS]

you don't see numbers like this too often....when he smokes the player you are comparing him to (Matthews) in points in their u17 season, you have to believe his ceiling is higher than that...is he at a McDavid level? That I don't want to say, but if there is any player in the next few years that can challenge McDavid, this seems to be the kid. Different style of player than Matthews and McDavid as he is a bit undersized, but I haven't seen skill like this in a while.

Matthews also had a broken femur in the 2nd game of the season. He was also promoted to a much deeper U-18 team where he was played behind Eichel and Larkin, whereas the current USNTDP coach immediately put Hughes on the stacked 1st line on a team with no depth.

 

[bigbizze]

you don't see numbers like this too often....when he smokes the player you are comparing him to (Matthews) in points in their u17 season, you have to believe his ceiling is higher than that...is he at a McDavid level? That I don't want to say, but if there is any player in the next few years that can challenge McDavid, this seems to be the kid. Different style of player than Matthews and McDavid as he is a bit undersized, but I haven't seen skill like this in a while.

The issue with this is that this is Hughes' D-1 year and you're comparing him to Matthews D-2 year.

Even if they're only 5 months difference in age that means that Hughes has an entire extra year of development over Matthews in this comparison.

 

[CraigBillington]

Because "generational" is used way too loosely by too many people. Around here generational players show up every 2-3 years.

I'm thinking we need a sticky thread with a definition of the term in this forum. Not every superstar or potential superstar is generational.
When we have like seven players under 22 being thrown that term, this kills the definition of generational talent. We are just in a very good reason of young hockey players.

To me, saying some of these guys are generational is like saying Mike Bossy, Steve Yzerman or Paul Coffey were generational. Absolutely fantastic players, one of the best in the game in their time, but not players who defined an era of hockey.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Hughes wouldn’t go ahead of McDavid for drafts of the last 5 years. If you aren’t the runaway best prospect over 5 years you aren’t generational. He’s a high-end talent but he’s not noticeably above Matthews or Eichel given their respective skill set and still lags behind McDavid.

I have been lucky enough to see McDavid play live throughout his OHL junior career and Hughes with the NTDP this season, and McDavid was clearly the better prospect at the same age. At 15 years old, he was the best player on his OHL team and you could see even then he was going to be very special.

This isn't taking anything away from Hughes, as he has a lot of talent and seems destined to be a star player, but he just doesn't compare to what McDavid was as a junior.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Generational to me means a once in a decade player at their position. Centers like Crosby and McDavid. Wingers like Ovechkin and Laine. Dmen like Karlsson/Dahlin.

 

[93LEAFS]

Generational to me means a once in a decade player at their position. Dmen like Crosby and McDavid. Wingers like Ovechkin and Laine. Dmen like Karlsson/Dahlin.

I wouldn't even factor in position. It is simply the best prospect over a 5-10 period. Its a guy likely to win multiple Harts and be considered the best player in the league for an extended period of time. That is shown through multiple Harts and Lindseys. Now, with prospects, its a guy likely to do that. McDavid is the only prospect since Crosby where this was a likely outcome bearing injuries.

 

[AmericanDream]

Matthews also had a broken femur in the 2nd game of the season. He was also promoted to a much deeper U-18 team where he was played behind Eichel and Larkin, whereas the current USNTDP coach immediately put Hughes on the stacked 1st line on a team with no depth.

I am not saying Hughes is going to be as good as McDavid, just saying that the he is outperforming the best players that have come out of this program by a wide margin :Eichel, Matthews, Keller, Kessel, etc..

if there is one player that could challenge McDavid on skill level, this is it...if you think differently that is perfectly fine. I do not know what the future will hold for Hughes, but as it stands right now he is in a league of his own.

 

[AmericanDream]

The issue with this is that this is Hughes' D-1 year and you're comparing him to Matthews D-2 year.

Even if they're only 5 months difference in age that means that Hughes has an entire extra year of development over Matthews in this comparison.

there is no issue, we are comparing their u-17 seasons, regardless of someone being a late birthday or not...
I fully understand development and a player having extra months at these critical years - but pound for pound in their first season with the USNDP, Hughes has literally smoked everyone who has played for this program including Matthews and Eichel and Kessel and Keller...it is impressive

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I wouldn't even factor in position. It is simply the best prospect over a 5-10 period. Its a guy likely to win multiple Harts and be considered the best player in the league for an extended period of time. That is shown through multiple Harts and Lindseys. Now, with prospects, its a guy likely to do that. McDavid is the only prospect since Crosby where this was a likely outcome bearing injuries.

Well I guess it depends, but I would factor in position. Karlsson is a generational Dman. Crosby is a generational center. Ovechkin is a generational winger.

 

[93LEAFS]

I am not saying Hughes is going to be as good as McDavid, just saying that the he is outperforming the best players that have come out of this program by a wide margin :Eichel, Matthews, Keller, Kessel, etc..

if there is one player that could challenge McDavid on skill level, this is it...if you think differently that is perfectly fine. I do not know what the future will hold for Hughes, but as it stands right now he is in a league of his own.

Pure skill I can see it, but not really on totality of the package. Speed and skill he’s up there and I’d expect a Patrick Kane type player.

Matthews and Eichel fit a different mould. Matthews is the least dynamic but is probably the best pure goal scorer of the bunch and entered the league with the most complete game.

 

[93LEAFS]

Well I guess it depends, but I would factor in position. Karlsson is a generational Dman. Crosby is a generational center. Ovechkin is a generational winger.

True, I think to be a generational player you need to at least be viewed as the best player in the league by either your peers or the writers a couple times. Which means only Ovi and Crosby are currently in the discussion of active players. The others are probably first ballot hall of famers. I don’t think there have been more than 25 generational players in the history of the league, and I don’t think Karlsson is even close to that discussion at this time.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

True, I think to be a generational player you need to at least be viewed as the best player in the league by either your peers or the writers a couple times. Which means only Ovi and Crosby are currently in the discussion of active players. The others are probably first ballot hall of famers. I don’t think there have been more than 25 generational players in the history of the league, and I don’t think Karlsson is even close to that discussion at this time.

Karlsson is having a rough year coming backl form injury on a terrible team, but don't discount the fact he was the clear best dman in hockey over the last 5+ years...

 

[93LEAFS]

Karlsson is having a rough year coming backl form injury on a terrible team, but don't discount the fact he was the clear best dman in hockey over the last 5+ years...

I’m not, but he’s not even close to the discussion of the best 25 players of all time at the moment. He’s never been voted a Hart nominee or won the Pearson/Lindsey (results outside the winner aren’t revealed). I also don’t consider Bourque or Lidstrom generational for similar reasons.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I’m not, but he’s not even close to the discussion of the best 25 players of all time at the moment. He’s never been voted a Hart nominee or won the Pearson/Lindsey (results outside the winner aren’t revealed). I also don’t consider Bourque or Lidstrom generational for similar reasons.

He's a generational Dman. Clear best at his position over a period of multiple years.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's a generational Dman. Clear best at his position over a period of multiple years.

Whatever, it’s a debate on semantics. I don’t consider it seperated by position. You are either in the discussion for best player in the league or you aren’t on a consistent basis. This is reflected through awards. The only guys in discussion for generational since Gretzky are Lemieux, Hasek, Jagr, Crosby and Ovi in my books.

But, we clearly see it differently. No point in continuing this debate in the Hughes thread.

 

[AmericanDream]

He's a generational Dman. Clear best at his position over a period of multiple years.

he is not a generational player - these discussions are pointless though as it is just going to derail a thread.. like 93Leafs said, if Bourque, Lidstrom, Leetch, etc aren't generational, neither is he.

the consensus around here is the following:
Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Crosby

that is the list of generational players - and Crosby is iffy by some posters.

 

[Frannel]

Because "generational" is used way too loosely by too many people. Around here generational players show up every 2-3 years.

I was actually asking for an explanation - I didn't mean to say Hughes is generational. So, if my question bothered you, I'm sorry, but this reply wasn't helpful...

Hughes wouldn’t go ahead of McDavid for drafts of the last 5 years. If you aren’t the runaway best prospect over 5 years you aren’t generational. He’s a high-end talent but he’s not noticeably above Matthews or Eichel given their respective skill set and still lags behind McDavid.

I wouldn't even factor in position. It is simply the best prospect over a 5-10 period. Its a guy likely to win multiple Harts and be considered the best player in the league for an extended period of time. That is shown through multiple Harts and Lindseys. Now, with prospects, its a guy likely to do that. McDavid is the only prospect since Crosby where this was a likely outcome bearing injuries.

Thank your for explaining.

Not every superstar or potential superstar is generational.
When we have like seven players under 22 being thrown that term, this kills the definition of generational talent. We are just in a very good reason of young hockey players.

To me, saying some of these guys are generational is like saying Mike Bossy, Steve Yzerman or Paul Coffey were generational. Absolutely fantastic players, one of the best in the game in their time, but not players who defined an era of hockey.

Also, thanks for explaining!

Generational to me means a once in a decade player at their position. Centers like Crosby and McDavid. Wingers like Ovechkin and Laine. Dmen like Karlsson/Dahlin.

And again: Thanks!

 

[canucks4ever]

Is Jack Hughes the best american prospect ever? He is putting up amazing numbers. Dahlin and Hughes are easily the 2 best prospects, neither play in the chl, amazing.

 

[93LEAFS]

Is Jack Hughes the best american prospect ever? He is putting up amazing numbers. Dahlin and Hughes are easily the 2 best prospects neither play in the chl, amazing.

Up there with Matthews and Eichel. Not sure if we have any posters here who were familiar with the Modano hype.

Kane was actually slept on to an extent due to size and people questioning his Knights numbers (considering how Dale uses his guys and Schremp having crazy numbers in prior years).