I was on the Nico train the whole time as well but there was a large divide amongst fans and the rest of the league then as well , with all the Flyers fans saying how much better Patrick was and that Jersey was stupid . Sound a lot like whats happening now , Team Jacko for record
C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft) Part 4
- Thread starter AmericanDream
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Hischier and Hughes
“I love to hockey”
- Jan 28, 2018
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Even though it seems that way I cant imagine they would do that. The chances of that leaking or hell even Jack’s reaction to it on and around draft day would be obvious to some
Possibly, sources (both contemporary and modern) differ regarding his real birthday.
AlternateSideParking
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For years, Hughes outscored his peers — elite and average groups — by a 2:1 or 3:1 margin in league and international play.
That’s one way you assess a ceiling. Fast forward to 5-6 years when he’s in his prime, playing against those same peers and many others younger in the NHL. The average age of an NHL player is 27-29. When he’s 24, he’ll be competing against the same majority peer group with 20+ min TOI.
Right now, the average age of an IIHF WC team is 26-27. Hughes is 18. That means he’s 8-9 years YOUNGER than the average player. And he’s playing 4th-line minutes. It’s a nonstandard condition.
The idea that Hughes — the world’s most elite teenage hockey talent the last 3-4 years — won’t adjust, improve, strengthen, and fine-tune what he already does at an elite level — is one of the dumbest —THE DUMBEST — things I have ever heard.
Remember six months ago when his shot was criticized? Did you see the U18’s? Did you hear his interviews? Clearly he saw it as an area he needed to work on, and he did.
That’s one way you assess a ceiling. Fast forward to 5-6 years when he’s in his prime, playing against those same peers and many others younger in the NHL. The average age of an NHL player is 27-29. When he’s 24, he’ll be competing against the same majority peer group with 20+ min TOI.
Right now, the average age of an IIHF WC team is 26-27. Hughes is 18. That means he’s 8-9 years YOUNGER than the average player. And he’s playing 4th-line minutes. It’s a nonstandard condition.
The idea that Hughes — the world’s most elite teenage hockey talent the last 3-4 years — won’t adjust, improve, strengthen, and fine-tune what he already does at an elite level — is one of the dumbest —THE DUMBEST — things I have ever heard.
Remember six months ago when his shot was criticized? Did you see the U18’s? Did you hear his interviews? Clearly he saw it as an area he needed to work on, and he did.
Kaako Kappo
Kaako Kappo
Where have you ever heard such a claim?
I don't know what the definition of "most elite" is meant to be there, but Dahlin among others is still a teenager and significantly better.
Sigh, that's not how it works, though. There are numerous players whose play style is more suited for junior play. Players dominating their peers at a young age doesn't mean that'll linearly continue for their entire career. That's such a simplistic way of looking at things, and completely ignores a massive amount of historical data. There are tons of players who dominated juniors but didn't end up being elite players, and there are tons of players who didn't dominate juniors but did end up being elite players. If you gauge his abilities and think that he'll be able to dominate the NHL with them, that's great, but please don't decide that he'll do so because he dominated his peers in age groups, Toni Rajala did as well.
And it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with "ceiling". That's an entirely different concept.
He'll most likely be a great NHL player, indeed. But this line of reasoning I'm reading is *shake shake*.
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Kaako Kappo
Kaako Kappo
I have. No one claims this. If there's something that's universally agreed on it's that Jack Hughes will most likely be a great NHL player. I'm sure even the user @ijuka agrees on that one. It's not like these people are here arguing whether Hughes should be taken #1 or #50
World most elite teenage talent in last 3-4 years? Yeah no he isnt. He is great, but still.
His shot is still bad.
And ijuka explained everything else
AlternateSideParking
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It's not 1993 or 1999 or 2005 or 2014. The league is getting smaller and quicker because the draft is getting smaller and quicker. There are more defenseman getting drafted 5'11 or smaller than at any point in NHL history -- you can look it up.
Hughes will be playing in his prime during a smaller, less physical NHL. To think he won't exploit that because a significant minority of top-tier junior players with his frame and style were busts 10-15 years ago is setting yourself up for failure.
I'll stick with my belief that Hughes will be a star in this league, and like Kane, the size/strength limitations will be long forgotten when he is putting up a ton of points and winning trophies.
Going to be a lot of fun revisiting these anti-Hughes threads.
Hughes will be playing in his prime during a smaller, less physical NHL. To think he won't exploit that because a significant minority of top-tier junior players with his frame and style were busts 10-15 years ago is setting yourself up for failure.
I'll stick with my belief that Hughes will be a star in this league, and like Kane, the size/strength limitations will be long forgotten when he is putting up a ton of points and winning trophies.
Going to be a lot of fun revisiting these anti-Hughes threads.
AlternateSideParking
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To me, Hughes has the most impressive pre-draft resume of anyone since McDavid, with Kakko a virtual tie for second. I favor forwards over defenseman, so naturally I will take both Hughes and Kakko ahead of Dahlin.
And if people wan't to ignore how Hughes improved his shot throughout the season, be my guest. Go back and watch all the goals he scored the last two seasons. You see a steady progression of more goals being scored from the circles and high slot.
Kaako Kappo
Kaako Kappo
Why do you think that Hughes has the most impressive pre-draft resume of anyone since McDavid? I personally think that both Matthews and Clayton Keller's are on par if not better. Keller's participation in his team's offense was higher than Hughes's while his team scored 200 goals less. Keller scored 6 less points in the U18's on a team that wasn't as stacked and scored less. And he actually won Gold too.
What I think is that while Hughes will be an elite player, he's one of the most overrated American talents in the recent times. I watch Jack Hughes and I see Mat Barzal. A guy who needs a bit more time. A guy who needs to get more power in almost every regard, and yes, that means skating too. He's a super super talented skater, but it's becoming obvious that he doesn't have the power to blow through grown up players like MacKinnon or McDavid did. Not yet, at least. In opinion he needs at least one more year. And there should be nothing wrong with that. Except that some people make it sound like there is.
I'm sure Islanders fans and Leafs fans are really sad about letting their quick, small and extremely skilled play-makers marinate for a bit.
What I think would be important is that while arguing is fine (And it can be pretty fun), people should also understand that these are just individual opinions. When trying to predict the future, no one's opinion is more correct than anyone else's.
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Yep this. Both Keller and auston had better season than Hughes. When you adjust their points, both Keller and Auston did better than him.
And yes Hughes has improved his shot and it will improve even more, but it is still his biggest weaknes and it isnt good yet. Slow release and no power.
KirkAlbuquerque
#FireSullivan
NYR fans would be thrilled to get either. Its NJ fans who are acting like any doubts about Hughes are a direct attack on them
That´s right but the playoffs are a different beast even today. I saw Gaudreau getting ragdolled by Colorado for instance. There are many smaller/lighter players who of course can handle it so not saying Hughes can´t be successful in the playoffs but it for sure is more difficult for smaller/lighter players
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you aren't looking hard enough - and once I created this thread most of those stopped posting here...go back to #3 and #2 versions of his thread, it was claimed many many times..especially in #3 where the OP started his entire thread on one big festering pile of hit pieces..
people aren't arguing who should go #1 or #50, they are arguing because one is an American and the other is a Finn..95% of those that came in here to shit on Hughes or try to diminish what he has accomplished are from one region/area only..it is pretty pathetic overall. and the 5% that actually do have solid opinions that have some questions about Hughes are well received in here and discussion is welcomed because they are here because of being a hockey fan and not about where a player is from. I personally hope Kakko goes #1 OV, rather it be that way - my chest pounding US pride couldn't give 2 shits who goes first, but the eye test has been hard to ignore for years on the kid.
Kaako Kappo
Kaako Kappo
But you are of course completely unbiased? Yeah. And if you see posts saying that Jack Hughes will not be a good NHL player, could you please point them out to me?
A lot of people are also getting too caught up in the nationality thing. Of course it'll be Fins discussing Kakko and comparing him to Hughes and vice-versa with Americans, because those are the people who've seen them the most.
I also do not care where these kids go, draft number doesn't really matter that much.
I am unbiased, my ass isn't in the Kakko thread saying anything bad about the kid period. see how that works, by having some class and common respect, those of us who enjoy seeing these kids play do not go into another kids thread and shit on him..that just hasn't happened here.
seems you are new here rookie, go find them yourself, tired of going back through the filth this kid has had to endure in his own damn threads..if you want the truth, seek it out for yourself, not going to do the leg work for you. if you don't believe me, then move on.
When you look at his numbers as an underager, there is a bit of a disconnect in production to when he’s playing with peers.
Can he drive play on the wing? Sure
Can he figure it out down the middle? Sure.
Will he? That’s the great unknown.
Drury has put a lot of robins eggs in his basket for this tourney, let’s see how it plays out.
But Blashill is killing me. You’re smoking France, have a PP late, can’t run Hughes out there?
Kaako Kappo
Kaako Kappo
If you make a claim you should be the one backing it up, so I'm just going to assume that you lied to me about Fins saying that Hughes wont be a great NHL player.
Also just tune out the trolls mate.
When you write "stuff that this kid has to endure here" sounds like you truly believe he´s stalking here
unfortunately we couldn't just tune out the trolls, the OP was the biggest one, and if you ignore him you can't view the damn thread anymore... so instead of sitting by and allowing that nonsense, we had to defend Jack's honor lol..
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