C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019, 1st, NJD) Part 6

[TheWhiskeyThief]

It was another poster, I got the posts mixed up. Your terrible take was that sheltering an 18 year old means they are bad, despite that being what everyone should do for an 18 year old.

And that’s your 2nd misreading of my comment to fit your own defensive narrative. Honest broker, you are not.

Say goodnight Gracie.

 

[Blender]

And that’s your 2nd misreading of my comment to fit your own defensive narrative. Honest broker, you are not.

Say goodnight Gracie.

You responded to a chain of posts that started with someone saying that him being "benched" when they were trying to defend a lead in the 3rd period was unprecedented for a #1 pick with "They trust him when time & space is a luxury, not at a premium.", as if that is somehow criticism of him and not just normal reality for 18 year olds. How else should that have been read?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Look at that 3rd Buffalo's goal, it's him, who doesn't put himself in a position to succeed. I mean, he should be on that player, who scored, and he just was watching it. With his great skating he really had to be better in that situation.

lol that's on your boy Gusev buddy, not Hughes...He was the high forward and 1st guy on the back check...he let Johansson blow by him and didn't pick up the 3rd Buffalo forward on the rush...how is that Hughes' responsibility or fault?

As the 3rd forward high he either needs to close out Johansson there or pass him off to Subban and pick up Skinner as the 3rd forward off the rush, it was his fault.

 

[Edmonton East]

lol that's on your boy Gusev buddy, not Hughes...He was the high forward and 1st guy on the back check...he let Johansson blow by him and didn't pick up the 3rd Buffalo forward on the rush...how is that Hughes' responsibility or fault?

As the 3rd forward high he either needs to close out Johansson there or pass him off to Subban and pick up Skinner as the 3rd forward off the rush, it was his fault.

There's a lot of problems with how the Devs played this...and that's the most concerning part. The 2 dmen play flat and didn't take proper angles once deep into the zone. Or how about Subban who easily could have stepped up at the blueline and completely dismantled the rush. Or Gusev dogging it through the neutral zone.

Honestly the more times I watch that replay, if I have to pick someone to place the most blame on, I'm choosing Subban. He should have stepped up when Gusev had the puck carrier tracked to the blueline boards. He didn't. Ok, then he proceeds to play in between the carrier and the nearest Buffalo option...which is a problem because his d partner actually has that guy covered up. So PK is taking a completely worthless angle to the puck carrier at that point.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

There's a lot of problems with how the Devs played this...and that's the most concerning part. The 2 dmen play flat and didn't take proper angles once deep into the zone. Or how about Subban who easily could have stepped up at the blueline and completely dismantled the rush. Or Gusev dogging it through the neutral zone.

Honestly the more times I watch that replay, if I have to pick someone to place the most blame on, I'm choosing Subban. He should have stepped up when Gusev had the puck carrier tracked to the blueline boards. He didn't. Ok, then he proceeds to play in between the carrier and the nearest Buffalo option...which is a problem because his d partner actually has that guy covered up. So PK is taking a completely worthless angle to the puck carrier at that point.

It was a nice Control Breakout executed by Buffalo, and poor Team Defense by Jersey. The reason Subban had such a loose gap was because if you look at the start of the video, watch Skinner. Notice Skinner who started on the Devil blue line curl from the center as he and Sobotka exchanged lanes. Subban was way to backed up to try and step up or close out Johansson there, imo.

Subban could have done a better job but IMO, the primary blame has to be assigned to Gusev there. Didn't angle Johansson off nearly enough to give Subban a chance to close out and didn't pass him off soon enough to be able to make a playe on Skinner. As for the Russian poster trying to assign blames to Hughes, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Dominance]

What a terrible position to put him. 1st USHL player to directly make the jump if i'm not mistaking. Playing center in the top 6 while being undersized and physically weak is not a recipe for success. They should have started him on the wing further down the lineup. Ray Shero was drinking the kool aid thinking he'd be a superstar from day 1. The sensational rookies ala barzal, matthews, laine, mcdavid, pettersson, Dhalin have really fooled people into believing it's easy to just jump into the NHL and dominate. That simply isn't the case.

Play him on Zajac's wing with Simmonds

Even of that list, the players he is most similar to in style - Barzal - and slightness - Pettersson - both did not immediately make the jump.

I still expect him to score over 50 this year, with probably at least half that coming on the powerplay. But he shouldn’t be in the NHL this year, especially considering New Jersey seems like it could have waited a year to bring him on board; they’re not exactly contenders. It’s not Shero’s fault though, it would look bad to the masses of uneducated fans to hype up your pick and then not play him when essentially all semi-recent 1OA picks have immediately made the jump, and especially when the guy picked behind him would be immediately making an impact.

 

[93LEAFS]

Even of that list, the players he is most similar to in style - Barzal - and slightness - Pettersson - both did not immediately make the jump.

I still expect him to score over 50 this year, with probably at least half that coming on the powerplay. But he shouldn’t be in the NHL this year, especially considering New Jersey seems like it could have waited a year to bring him on board; they’re not exactly contenders. It’s not Shero’s fault though, it would look bad to the masses of uneducated fans to hype up your pick and then not play him when essentially all semi-recent 1OA picks have immediately made the jump, and especially when the guy picked behind him would be immediately making an impact.

He should be NHL ready, but he isn't ready to carry a line as a center without a high-quality winger to help lift the burden. If he continues to struggle they should just put him on Zajac's or Hischier's wing for most of the year. Very few guys are capable of carrying a line as a center as a D+1 rookie. You have examples like McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, and Tavares, but other very highly touted prospects had issues like Stamkos who played center but struggled (and was misused by Melrose), and Seguin who played RW due to going to a deep team. Hischier did well in year 1, but had a very high-quality winger right off the bat who had a long track record of driving play. Others have been passable on the 3rd but are generally significantly bigger than Hughes such as Monahan, Patrick, and Barkov.

Basically, the Devil's have two reasonable choices if these struggles hold on for a couple more games. First, is move him to the wing, or two, put Taylor Hall on his line. I can't see an outcome where they send him down after 9 to protect his ELC. It would reflect poorly on too many people even if it is the right move (and, I don't think we have enough evidence to say he should go to the AHL yet).

 

[Edmonton East]

It was a nice Control Breakout executed by Buffalo, and poor Team Defense by Jersey. The reason Subban had such a loose gap was because if you look at the start of the video, watch Skinner. Notice Skinner who started on the Devil blue line curl from the center as he and Sobotka exchanged lanes. Subban was way to backed up to try and step up or close out Johansson there, imo.

Subban could have done a better job but IMO, the primary blame has to be assigned to Gusev there. Didn't angle Johansson off nearly enough to give Subban a chance to close out and didn't pass him off soon enough to be able to make a playe on Skinner. As for the Russian poster trying to assign blames to Hughes, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Hmmm idk. I think I disagree here regarding Subban. Your reasoning is fair if you just watch the first clip of the video. Totally get it. But take a look at the 31 second mark onward. Subban easily could have held towards the line and the rush would have been broken up. Carrier most likely would have had to chip it in...which ironically still could have led to a goal with how this team plays D.

Good defenders know how to make the blueline their best friend. Especially when defending a fast break. Subban dropped wayyyy too deep and too early.

 

[Blender]

He should be NHL ready, but he isn't ready to carry a line as a center without a high-quality winger to help lift the burden. If he continues to struggle they should just put him on Zajac's or Hischier's wing for most of the year. Very few guys are capable of carrying a line as a center as a D+1 rookie. You have examples like McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, and Tavares, but other very highly touted prospects had issues like Stamkos who played center but struggled (and was misused by Melrose), and Seguin who played RW due to going to a deep team. Hischier did well in year 1, but had a very high-quality winger right off the bat who had a long track record of driving play. Others have been passable on the 3rd but are generally significantly bigger than Hughes such as Monahan, Patrick, and Barkov.

Basically, the Devil's have two reasonable choices if these struggles hold on for a couple more games. First, is move him to the wing, or two, put Taylor Hall on his line. I can't see an outcome where they send him down after 9 to protect his ELC. It would reflect poorly on too many people even if it is the right move (and, I don't think we have enough evidence to say he should go to the AHL yet).

I don't think it needs to be Hall, but it needs to be someone who can cover his weaknesses. His linemates so far have not provided that. If they aren't going to play him with Hall, he needs to be with Palmieri, Coleman, or Simmonds at least. Preferably one of the first two.

 

[tsujimoto74]

It was a nice Control Breakout executed by Buffalo, and poor Team Defense by Jersey. The reason Subban had such a loose gap was because if you look at the start of the video, watch Skinner. Notice Skinner who started on the Devil blue line curl from the center as he and Sobotka exchanged lanes. Subban was way to backed up to try and step up or close out Johansson there, imo.

Subban could have done a better job but IMO, the primary blame has to be assigned to Gusev there. Didn't angle Johansson off nearly enough to give Subban a chance to close out and didn't pass him off soon enough to be able to make a playe on Skinner. As for the Russian poster trying to assign blames to Hughes, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yeah, Gusev was playing very lazy D on that play. Just kind of waved his stick at Johansson as he skated by and called it a day.

On topic, though-- I'm sure Hughes will be fine eventually, but it'll take him some time to get there. It's a huge, huge jump from the USHL to the NHL. To compare to some other recent American pivots, Eichel and Matthews (in addition to being more physically developed at the time they were drafted) had the advantage of playing at a higher level before coming to the NHL, which helped them become impact players at this level sooner.

 

[tealhockey]

Yeah, Gusev was playing very lazy D on that play. Just kind of waved his stick at Johansson as he skated by and called it a day.

On topic, though-- I'm sure Hughes will be fine eventually, but it'll take him some time to get there. It's a huge, huge jump from the USHL to the NHL. To compare to some other recent American pivots, Eichel and Matthews (in addition to being more physically developed at the time they were drafted) had the advantage of playing at a higher level before coming to the NHL, which helped them become impact players at this level sooner.

Eichel and Matthews are also physical specimens, whereas Hughes is slight and shorter. All the more reason for them to have let him take a year. He's more like Mittelstadt than Matthews

 

[tsujimoto74]

Eichel and Matthews are also physical specimens, whereas Hughes is slight and shorter. All the more reason for them to have let him take a year. He's more like Mittelstadt than Matthews

I think in terms of where he's at physically, yeah. Mitts was very underdeveloped in terms of strength and conditioning at the draft and continued to be that way last year. I think playing in the NHL opened his eyes up to how much work he had to do. Hughes is more talented than Mittelstadt, but he's got a comparable amount of work to do to get up to the level he needs to be at. Eichel and Matthews are also taller, which doesn't hurt. It's not like Hughes can train himself to be 6'2", but he can definitely get thicker and stronger.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

He looks quite weak out there so far but IMO that was expected. Him and his brother are extremely slight and not physically developed yet. He is obviously extremely skilled but I think it will take some time till he starts hitting his stride.

I know people on here expect results the second he stepped on the ice to start his career, but its gonna take time

He will be a point machine eventually but just not quite yet

 

[Artorius Horus T]

He looks quite weak out there so far but IMO that was expected. Him and his brother are extremely slight and not physically developed yet. He is obviously extremely skilled but I think it will take some time till he starts hitting his stride.

I know people on here expect results the second he stepped on the ice to start his career, but its gonna take time

He will be a point machine eventually but just not quite yet

What you think will be the time table for that? in the 20-21 season?, 21-22 season?.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

What you think will be the time table for that? in the 20-21 season?, 21-22 season?.

 

[flashsabre]

He looks quite weak out there so far but IMO that was expected. Him and his brother are extremely slight and not physically developed yet. He is obviously extremely skilled but I think it will take some time till he starts hitting his stride.

I know people on here expect results the second he stepped on the ice to start his career, but its gonna take time

He will be a point machine eventually but just not quite yet

The kid has all world talent but he looks 12 out there. Girgensons knocked him off the puck and it was alarming the difference in their physiques at that moment. He will get there and be an impact player but he has to grow and get stronger.

 

[flashsabre]

He looks quite weak out there so far but IMO that was expected. Him and his brother are extremely slight and not physically developed yet. He is obviously extremely skilled but I think it will take some time till he starts hitting his stride.

I know people on here expect results the second he stepped on the ice to start his career, but its gonna take time

He will be a point machine eventually but just not quite yet

The kid has all world talent but he looks 12 out there. Girgensons knocked him off the puck and it was alarming the difference in their physiques at that moment. He will get there and be an impact player but he has to grow and get stronger.

 

[Walrus26]

Going to be hard for Hughes to shine whilst every single pro he's up against - regardless of their listed height & weight - is stronger and just "harder" than he is.

Give him a year in the AHL and the gym.

If NJ wanted "ready now", they should have drafted Kakko ;-)

 

[zharkenby]

Even of that list, the players he is most similar to in style - Barzal - and slightness - Pettersson - both did not immediately make the jump.

I still expect him to score over 50 this year, with probably at least half that coming on the powerplay. But he shouldn’t be in the NHL this year, especially considering New Jersey seems like it could have waited a year to bring him on board; they’re not exactly contenders. It’s not Shero’s fault though, it would look bad to the masses of uneducated fans to hype up your pick and then not play him when essentially all semi-recent 1OA picks have immediately made the jump, and especially when the guy picked behind him would be immediately making an impact.

“The guy picked behind him”

What exact has he done so far or did I miss something?

 

[zharkenby]

Going to be hard for Hughes to shine whilst every single pro he's up against - regardless of their listed height & weight - is stronger and just "harder" than he is.

Give him a year in the AHL and the gym.

If NJ wanted "ready now", they should have drafted Kakko ;-)

I’m missing the part where Kakko has done anything notable... l

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I’m missing the part where Kakko has done anything notable... l

He is playing with Ryan Strome as his center.... and with a 40-50 point Kreider, - without PP minutes
Its not like you can compare those 2 to for someone like Gusev and the chance to play good PP minutes

 

[Blender]

He is playing with Ryan Strome as his center.... and with a 40-50 point Kreider, - without PP minutes
Its not like you can compare those 2 to for someone like Gusev and the chance to play good PP minutes

Gusev has never played in the NHL. Maybe he's better than Kreider, but it's laughable to just toss that out like it's a for sure fact. He also only played with Gusev in the first game anyways.

Hughes has played 3:25 of power play time (5th on the team among forwards), Kakko 2:19 of power play time (5th on the team among forwards). Devils have had an extra 30 seconds of power play time through two games, but it seems like each player is playing about the same number of minutes there depending on how many power plays there are.

 

[zharkenby]

He is playing with Ryan Strome as his center.... and with a 40-50 point Kreider, - without PP minutes
Its not like you can compare those 2 to for someone like Gusev and the chance to play good PP minutes

Hughes played with Miles wood last night(one of the least coordinated players in the league) ... lol. Kakko has been invisible as well bud. And Hughes is on the 2nd PP.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Hughes played with Miles wood last night(one of the least coordinated players in the league) ... lol. Kakko has been invisible as well bud. And Hughes is on the 2nd PP.

Good (not great) PP minutes nevertheless. and Miles Wood > Ryan Strome, doesn't matter how bad Wood supposedly is, is still better what Ryan thou,BTW. Miles Wood was relatively good last season and great, season before that, what happened to him?

PS. did he play with him the entire game thou?

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Good (not great) PP minutes nevertheless. and Miles Wood > Ryan Strome, doesn't matter how bad Wood supposedly is, is still better what Ryan thou,BTW. Miles Wood was relatively good last season and great, season before that, what happened to him?

PS. did he play with him the entire game thou?

If you add gh at the end of thou, you'll get though, which is what you're trying to say and it wont break my brain every time i read your stuff.