C German Rubtsov (2016, 22nd, PHI)

[KarIgo87]

I don't know how the most of the NHL teams will take his illegal substance use, but I could definitely see at least some teams not choosing him because of what happened. If for not any other reason, at least for the sake of being afraid of bad image and pr reasons. I myself would definitely not pick this kind of player at all, for ethical reasons. I wouldn't want on my team people whom have at least recent proven history of illegal actions.

What exactly wrong did Rubtsov do? Took some legal medications from team doctors which were part of training process for several decades? I hate when people discuss things they don't know anything about.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Rubtsov is part of the Vityaz organization, not Torpedo.

Correct. My bad. I dont know where I came up Chaika.

This was the article I was referencing.

http://pda.sports.ru/hockey/1037584535.html

 

[AlternateSideParking]

He's a better two way C than Matthews?

He's more polished in his own end than Matthews. Matthews wont take all your key defensive zone draws late in games. I mean, he can, but he's a scorer.

Rubtsov is undoubtedly the best checker in the draft. Shame he won't be in Grand Forks. its BS. The two days I have free was thr-fri for Russia-USA. I guess this doping scandal saved us some travel money.

 

[Ippenator]

What exactly wrong did Rubtsov do? Took some legal medications from team doctors which were part of training process for several decades? I hate when people discuss things they don't know anything about.

Ok, I will change the word illegal to prohibited. Doesn't change the fact that he did himself something that is prohibited in European professional hockey. He used a prohibited substance. It is funny how so often when athletes get caught with doping, they are always innocent and only horrible coaches and evil doctors are to blame.

I see it differently. In sports doping is such a well known and often happening thing that every athlete needs to make sure themselves that they for sure know that they are not using any prohibited substances. It is easy for anyone to get a list of all the prohibited substances and check even yourself that you are not using anything that is prohibited.

 

[Caser]

Ok, I will change the word illegal to prohibited. Doesn't change the fact that he did himself something that is prohibited in European professional hockey. He used a prohibited substance. It is funny how so often when athletes get caught with doping, they are always innocent and only horrible coaches and evil doctors are to blame.

I see it differently. In sports doping is such a well known and often happening thing that every athlete needs to make sure themselves that they for sure know that they are not using any prohibited substances. It is easy for anyone to get a list of all the prohibited substances and check even yourself that you are not using anything that is prohibited.

Well known and often happening? In hockey?

Unfortunately, the biggest issue with meldonium is that it isn't exactly well known - noone can tell for sure how fast it leaves your body and how much of it can be found after some time. 140 athletes (not only from Russia) have been already caught and a lot of others have suddenly "withdrawn" from competitions like Rubtsov - not exactly an usual situation for a newly prohibited substance.

Judging by the information available in press, they took it in November, when it was totally legal. Of course, we will probably never know for sure how it was, as hockey federation will try to pretend that nothing happened.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I really don't think this scandal will impact the perception of character of any of these Russian kids, especially since it was everyone on the team. If your coach and entire team are taking a supplement they tell you is to make your more healthy and have better stamina, pretty much every 17 year old would take it. Athletes in Russia have been using it for going on 10 years too, so it was widely accepted there as a supplement to make you more effective. It's just not something you'd question at the time.

 

[ovikovy817]

1, We don't even know if it was because of meldonium.

2, If it was because of meldonium, most of you (to not say everybody) don't even know what you are talking about. It's not something that improve your capabilities.

I don't think you can improve your capabilities with something you can buy in a store by your self for 3$ (yes, 3, three).


And I'd like to add this.
Where is the presumption of innocence, that the "civilized" world like so much? Oh yeah, I forgot, it doesn't work for russian athletes, pff pathetic.

 

[AstoriaIceNinja]

1, We don't even know if it was because of meldonium.

2, If it was because of meldonium, most of you (to not say everybody) don't even know what you are talking about. It's not something that improve your capabilities.

I don't think you can improve your capabilities with something you can buy in a store by your self for 3$ (yes, 3, three).


And I'd like to add this.
Where is the presumption of innocence, that the "civilized" world like so much? Oh yeah, I forgot, it doesn't work for russian athletes, pff pathetic.

When do North Americans ever give the benefit of the doubt to Eastern Europeans? They are too busy universally condemning a culture that is completely different from their own and thus pre-judging anyone who came from said culture.

 

[OttMorrow]

When do North Americans ever give the benefit of the doubt to Eastern Europeans? They are too busy universally condemning a culture that is completely different from their own and thus pre-judging anyone who came from said culture.

Racism against Eastern Europeans??

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Racism against Eastern Europeans??

Nobody said anything about racism. European players tend to get held to different standards than North Americans (Canadians especially) with things like "attitude issues" and "defensive/physical play". Maybe those standards are approrpiate given the reputation some high profile players have (Kovalchuk, Radulov, Kostitsyns etc) but its silly to pretend the difference doesn't exist.

 

[TLEH]

would LOVE him on my team for sure.

 

[Ennui]

What exactly wrong did Rubtsov do? Took some legal medications from team doctors which were part of training process for several decades? I hate when people discuss things they don't know anything about.

You are right that Meldonium is a legal drug, which can be cheaply bought over-the-counter. It isn't illegal for any person to take Meldonium, but it is considered a performance-enhancing drug and has been banned for use by athletes in order to gain an unfair advantage.

Similarly, there are no rules against sports teams training at high altitude in order to increase their blood cell count. It also isn't illegal for people to get a transfusion of blood with a higher red blood cell count, but when athletes take such blood transfusions in order to gain an unfair advantage, it is called Blood Doping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping), and it is a practice that has been banned for use by athletes in competitive events.

Nobody cares whether the drug is legal, the problem here is that Rubtsov was part of a team where cheating was encouraged. Whether or not he was doping, and if he was, whether or not he was doing so willingly are the questions that matter here.

 

[Fantomas]

Nobody cares whether the drug is legal, the problem here is that Rubtsov was part of a team where cheating was encouraged.

ROFL. Rubtsov was on a team that allegedly consumed meldonium until november 2015, when the drug was not yet banned by WADA.

"Cheating was encouraged" is a complete twisting of facts here.

 

[Fantomas]

Do we have to use the word 'cheating' as if it refers to some kind of objective standard of gaining an advantage? Meldonium is not banned by the NHL. Is it cheating for an NHLer to consume it?

 

[Ennui]

ROFL. Rubtsov was on a team that allegedly consumed meldonium until november 2015, when the drug was not yet banned by WADA.

"Cheating was encouraged" is a complete twisting of facts here.

Regardless of whether the drug had been banned yet, the research was there; the drug IS a performance enhancing drug, it was a performance enhancing drug the day it was first available to the public. As for its legality in the NHL, that is a matter of ignorance by the policy makers of the league; if a team has its players doping with a certain drug, not because they NEED to take the drug to compete, but because it gives them a competitive advantage that opposing players could not reasonably anticipate and match, that kind of behavior is considered unethical, poor sportsmanship, and has no place in competitive sports.

So, for the record, you condone organizational doping programs, the intent of which being to gain an unfair competitive advantage?

 

[Caser]

Regardless of whether the drug had been banned yet, the research was there; the drug IS a performance enhancing drug, it was a performance enhancing drug the day it was first available to the public. As for its legality in the NHL, that is a matter of ignorance by the policy makers of the league; if a team has its players doping with a certain drug, not because they NEED to take the drug to compete, but because it gives them a competitive advantage that opposing players could not reasonably anticipate and match, that kind of behavior is considered unethical, poor sportsmanship, and has no place in competitive sports.

So, for the record, you condone organizational doping programs, the intent of which being to gain an unfair competitive advantage?

Sorry, do you suggest that even just on the stage of research substance should be forbidden to use, and it doesn't matter if substance will get banned in the end or not?

 

[Fantomas]

Regardless of whether the drug had been banned yet, the research was there; the drug IS a performance enhancing drug

Please let's not pretend you have read any research. The effects of meldonium have been contested. WADA does not even know how long the drug remains in the system.

 

[TkachuckNotTkaczuk]

I don't think Eastern European players are held to different standards, the only thing that may affect them is the Russian Factor which is very real. Look at it from a team's perspective, if you draft a Russian player you never know whether he is ever going to come to North America to play or not. That is a used draft position where they could have drafted someone where they 99% know that player is either in NA playing or will be willing to come over to play. This certainly affects rankings among players, the ability to play your career at home, making good money, being close to family is a big draw for Russian players, there is no denying that. That is a big reason why junior aged Russians are coming over to play in the CHL, USHL etc, to show NHL teams that they are serious about playing their career over here.

But to claim that Western Civilization has it out for Russian athletes is simply ludicrous! We may very much dislike your leader but that has nothing to do with sports or what happend when caught cheating. If athletes are caught cheating, they face the same penalties the world over, just that the Putin controlled media over there may play it as something to the contrary.

 

[beaniewong]

Back to the player, I know its too easy to compare him to Kopitar because of the strong, left handed shooter who can score, but he was recognized as one of the better 2-way centreman in the entire draft which is something Kopitar does extremely well.

Excited to see the kids development.

 

[covfefe]

Russia is not even remotely close to Eastern Europe, and as such, hockey players from Russia are not Eastern Europeans...

Kopitar is eastern European, Datsyuk is Russian. Let's get our heads around this

 

[Caser]

I don't think Eastern European players are held to different standards, the only thing that may affect them is the Russian Factor which is very real. Look at it from a team's perspective, if you draft a Russian player you never know whether he is ever going to come to North America to play or not. That is a used draft position where they could have drafted someone where they 99% know that player is either in NA playing or will be willing to come over to play. This certainly affects rankings among players, the ability to play your career at home, making good money, being close to family is a big draw for Russian players, there is no denying that. That is a big reason why junior aged Russians are coming over to play in the CHL, USHL etc, to show NHL teams that they are serious about playing their career over here.

Some teams are solving that with bothering to communicate with players before the draft to get clear about their plans and intentions.

But to claim that Western Civilization has it out for Russian athletes is simply ludicrous! We may very much dislike your leader but that has nothing to do with sports or what happend when caught cheating. If athletes are caught cheating, they face the same penalties the world over, just that the Putin controlled media over there may play it as something to the contrary.

I totally agree that there is no place for cheating in the sport. But the issue here is with the definition of 'cheating'. In this specific case 'cheating' has been defined by WADA as 'taking a medication with arguable effects on performance, that has been known and allowed before and which is used for around 30 years mostly in Russia'. Sounds not exactly perfect, but that's WADA and they have a right for that, that's fine by me (I mean, they can even ban aspirin, it's their right). But suddenly it appears that no studies have been made on how long it takes to get it out of the body and because of that something like 200 athletes (again, mostly Russian) have to suffer because of a rather useless **** like meldonium. You don't need any Putin controlled media to get kind of suspicious in this situation.

And yes, most painful here is to see really talented kids like Rubtsov (who's talent clearly wasn't enhanced by meldonium) suffering from this situation.

 

[93LEAFS]

Some teams are solving that with bothering to communicate with players before the draft to get clear about their plans and intentions.

It has more to do with buyouts/contracts. An NHL team will prefer an asset it can control, rather than having to wait til a player is 20 to 21.

 

[Caser]

Back to the player, I know its too easy to compare him to Kopitar because of the strong, left handed shooter who can score, but he was recognized as one of the better 2-way centreman in the entire draft which is something Kopitar does extremely well.

Excited to see the kids development.

I think of Rubtsov as more of a poor (or not so poor) man's Toews.

It has more to do with buyouts/contracts. An NHL team will prefer an asset it can control, rather than having to wait til a player is 20 to 21.

Another approach is to wait until the player actually can help on the NHL level and only then sign him on the ELC, which helps with the cap.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think of Rubtsov as more of a poor (or not so poor) man's Toews.



Another approach is to wait until the player actually can help on the NHL level and only then sign him on the ELC, which helps with the cap.

Not really, ELC's in the AHL don't count against the cap.

 

[Caser]

Not really, ELC's in the AHL don't count against the cap.

I mean, when a player is able to contribute at top six level in NHL while still being on ELC, he saves cap space for his team, as otherwise it would have to sign someone more expensive for that role. On the other hand, if the ELC time is ticking in AHL, it doesn't give any cap relief and therefore, when the player is finally ready to play on NHL level, his ELC years are up (or almost up) and he has to be signed to a bigger deal.