He is though. If you look at him off the ice, he still looks like a lanky kid in middle school or something.
C Connor McDavid - Erie Otters, OHL (2015 Draft) II
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He is though. If you look at him off the ice, he still looks like a lanky kid in middle school or something.
Gigantor The Goalie
Speak for the Goalies
Ever watch him play this season though? He's strong down low. He may look like a lanky middle schooler but he's stronger then he's given credit for.
Patmac40
BESTPOSTERINTHEGAME
He's very strong on his skates right now but not a strong person in comparison to competition which is pretty impressive. Once he fills out like the rest of his peers it'll be impossible to get the puck away from him.
For comparison's sake, Mario's 17 year old season (his 2nd in the Q, a year before his draft year) should be used.
1Gold Standard
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Paxon
202? Stanley Cup Champions
His legs have to be strong otherwise he simply wouldn't be able to skate like that. Doesn't seem like he has all too much upper body strength yet even relative to his age group, though. That's a good thing of course because his shooting power is really something that he'll have to improve to be an elite scorer in the NHL and there's really no doubt that it will once he matures.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Its a half year difference either way. I wouldn't say that comparing the season's I suggested would be unreasonable.
It is unreasonable though. I think that most people don't realize how big of a difference there is from a rookie season to your second year. There is a reason that 99% of CHL players have a better second season than their rookie year, and it's not just because of size and getting older.
It's because players have had a year to realize how the league works, how to play against bigger and stronger players, how to be more professional on and off the ice, and what it takes to be successful.
Many players arent any bigger or stronger in their second year, they're just smarter.
This is why compairing McDavid's second season to Crosby (or in this case Lemieux's) rookie season doesn't really work.
I'm not some guy just talking out of my ass here, I've been through it. I played my three years in the Q, and still work for a team to this day.
Players like Crosby, Lemieux, Gretzky, etc. absolutely dominated their leagues from the first second they stepped on the ice. I know that players don't have linear curves when it comes to development, but exceptional players such a Crosby are at the top no matter their age or size.
I'm not discrediting McDavid, as he has all the tools to be a great player in the NHL. I just think that either people never had the chance to watch Crosby when he was in the Q, or don't remember just how dominating he was.
I know people get excited with new prospects, hoping that there will be a new NHL superstar coming along soon, but expectations are not going to be met if these Crosby comparisons keep up.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Then why did Lemieux see such a tremendous jump in scoring from year 1 to 2 while Crosby saw relative minimal improvement?
Even still, McDavids 15 yo season still compares fairly well to Mario's rookie season if you adjust for scoring.
32 extra points is not "minimal" improvement, especially when you account for his increased defensive play in his second season. Lemieux IMO is the best player in history so hes the exception, not the norm.
During Crosby's second season he put up 52 more points than the second leading scorer in the league (his own teammate who fed off Crosby), and 60 more points than the next closest player who wasn't on his team.
Let me say that again for you 60 more points than the next closest player..
Even during his rookie season Crosby, Crosby put up 37 more points than the next closest player not on his team.
During McDavid's second season, hes not even the leading scorer on his own team, let alone scoring 60 more points than everyone else.
Again, McDavid is going to be great, but he has shown nothing so far that suggests he will be on Crosby's level. People seem to forget just how dominating Crosby was.
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
scoutman1
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I have seen McDavid play a bit in person and I saw and still continue to see Crosby play in person....McDavid like I said before is no Sidney Crosby (IMO Crosby is this generations Lemieux or Gretzky type talent, gone are the days of any player ever getting 200 points since the game changed soooo much, and people forget just how bad Crosby made the QMJHL look in scoring and just how great he is in the NHL) McDavid on the other hand is a great player in his own right but Crosby he is not....IMO he is on par with a Tavares, Mackinnon type potential....i agree with a post above i guess people just never got to watch Crosby play or forget because right from get go in his rookie season when he was on the ice it was his show and no one elses, I find McDavid does not have that quality about him....too me Crosby is the Lemeiux and McDavid is like the Adam Oates, both are amazing players but Lemieux was that notch or three above all the great players.
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stokes84
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Crosby went from 2.28ppg in his rookie year to 2.71 ppg in his 2nd season. That's about a 19% improvement.
Mario's improvement curve was SIGNIFICANTLY steeper, going from 1.5ppg to 2.82, an improvement of 88%! So yes, Crosby's offensive improvement was relatively minimal.
The most plausible explanation for such a dramatic difference is that Crosby was further ahead in his personal development curve, and that Mario was more of a late bloomer. McDavid is showing similar physical development trend. And so far, his ppg improvement is evidence that it is far too early to write off his offensive potential based on statistics.
Adam Oates? Really? IMO McDavid is slightly above Tavares/Stamkos level but below Crosby level.
7even
Offered and lost
As a Leafs fan, I think you can appreciate that Kessel is a lot faster than he looks off the ice.
Did you even read the rest of my post? During Crosby's second season he had 60 more points than anyone not on his team, and even during his rookie season he had 37 more points than anyone else not on his team.
Crosby was the best player in the league from the first second he jumped on the ice. The same cannot be said about McDavid. It's even debatable to call McDavid the best player even during his second season in the league.
As I already mentioned, Lemieux is the exception, not the norm, from a development standpoint.
There is not a single argument that you can realistically make that shows that McDavid has been as dominant as Crosby was. McDavid is even scoring at a lower pace than Tavares during his second season (who is a much better comparison when talking about potential).
As I keep saying, McDavid will be great, but he will not be Crosby great. Either you are too young to know what Crosby was like in Junior, or you don't remember.
As a quick refresher, this was Crosby's rookie season:
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Player of the Year
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Leading Scorer
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Rookie of the Year
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Canada Post Cup (Three stars)
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - First All-Star Team
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - All-Rookie Team
2003-04 QMJHL - Michel Briere (Most Valuable Player)
2003-04 QMJHL - Michel Bergeron Trophy (Offensive Rookie of the Year)
2003-04 QMJHL - Telus Offensive Player of the Year
2003-04 QMJHL - Jean Beliveau Trophy (Leading scorer)
2003-04 QMJHL - Rookie of the Year
2003-04 QMJHL - Paul Dumont Trophy (Personality of the Year)
2003-04 QMJHL - First All-Star Team
2003-04 QMJHL - All-Rookie Team
And this was his second season:
2004-05 Canadian Major Junior - Player of the Year
2004-05 Canadian Major Junior - Leading Scorer
2004-05 Memorial Cup - Ed Chynoweth Award (Leading Scorer)
2004-05 Canadian Major Junior - Canada Post Cup (Three stars)
2004-05 Memorial Cup - All-Star Team
2004-05 QMJHL - Michel Briere (Most Valuable Player)
2004-05 QMJHL - Telus Offensive Player of the Year
2004-05 QMJHL - Jean Beliveau Trophy (Leading scorer)
2004-05 QMJHL - Paul Dumont Trophy (Personality of the Year)
2004-05 QMJHL - Michael Bossy Trophy (Top Draft Prospect)
2004-05 QMJHL - Playoff MVP
2004-05 QMJHL - First All-Star Team
Again, people clearly do not realize, or never had the opportunity to see how amazing Crosby was since day 1. He was the best player in the entire CHL.
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Player of the Year
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Leading Scorer
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Rookie of the Year
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - Canada Post Cup (Three stars)
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - First All-Star Team
2003-04 Canadian Major Junior - All-Rookie Team
2003-04 QMJHL - Michel Briere (Most Valuable Player)
2003-04 QMJHL - Michel Bergeron Trophy (Offensive Rookie of the Year)
2003-04 QMJHL - Telus Offensive Player of the Year
2003-04 QMJHL - Jean Beliveau Trophy (Leading scorer)
2003-04 QMJHL - Rookie of the Year
2003-04 QMJHL - Paul Dumont Trophy (Personality of the Year)
2003-04 QMJHL - First All-Star Team
2003-04 QMJHL - All-Rookie Team
And this was his second season:
2004-05 Canadian Major Junior - Player of the Year
2004-05 Canadian Major Junior - Leading Scorer
2004-05 Memorial Cup - Ed Chynoweth Award (Leading Scorer)
2004-05 Canadian Major Junior - Canada Post Cup (Three stars)
2004-05 Memorial Cup - All-Star Team
2004-05 QMJHL - Michel Briere (Most Valuable Player)
2004-05 QMJHL - Telus Offensive Player of the Year
2004-05 QMJHL - Jean Beliveau Trophy (Leading scorer)
2004-05 QMJHL - Paul Dumont Trophy (Personality of the Year)
2004-05 QMJHL - Michael Bossy Trophy (Top Draft Prospect)
2004-05 QMJHL - Playoff MVP
2004-05 QMJHL - First All-Star Team
Again, people clearly do not realize, or never had the opportunity to see how amazing Crosby was since day 1. He was the best player in the entire CHL.
So Crosby was the better junior player. You're making it seem that it's not possible McDavid becomes just as good in the NHL.
That's ridiculous. Him and Tavares are about on par as junior players, but anyone that watched both will tell you that McDavid is a better prospect than Tavares was and projects to be better in the future.
That's ridiculous. Him and Tavares are about on par as junior players, but anyone that watched both will tell you that McDavid is a better prospect than Tavares was and projects to be better in the future.
- Apr 27, 2005
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I think your having a hard time with reading comprehension. I don't know why you keep trying to argue that Crosby was more dominant than Mcdavid at this age. I am in 100 percent agreement. Trust me, I flowed the guy religiously even when he was with the Subways.
Lemieux is far from the exception btw. Most players see a significant bump in productivity from their 16 to 17 yo seasons. Im not sure you know what you are talking about.
Lemieux went from 1.5ppg to 2.8ppg, 88% increase.
Spezza went from 1.2ppg to 2.0ppg, 60% increase.
Lindros went from 1.4ppg to 2.6ppg, 86% increase.
Joe Thornton from 1.2ppg to 2.1ppg, 75% increase.
Jagr from .5ppg to 1ppg (Kladno), 50% increase.
See? Physical development plays a huge role. You seen to have a hard time understanding that this is my point, and are instead fascinated with comparing Mcdavid and Crosby. Based in Mcdavid's current level of physical development, it is way too soon to be writing him off. If he puts on 15 lbs of muscle this offseason and puts up 170 points in 60 go in his draft year, I think that would put him in the conversation with Crosby. And IF his development curve is anything like the guys I listed above, he could very well go from having a 1.7ppg 16 yo season to a 2.7ppg 16 yo season.
But we don't know what his physical development curve will look like , so its impossible to say either way.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
That's also Eichel's draft year. He's also got a lot of potential. It will be interesting to see if he makes the U.S. team this year and if so has a good showing.
The point remains the same that Crosby, along with players of his calibre, were dominant from day one of being on the ice and especially during their second year.
McDavid is in his second year now, and isn't tearing up the league the way most elite level (as in Crosby Level) players have during their second year. There are actually very few reasons as to how you can say he will be as good as Crosby is. You're basing your entire arguments on "what if's". As of now, McDavid has shown me nothing that suggests he will be on Crosby's level.
Crosby and McDavid were around the same physical development when they were 16, and Crosby was a much better player. As I've already stated, I went through the CHL system myself, and continue to work in the system and watch these players grow.
You are putting WAY too much stock into physical development, never mind how incredibly hard (near impossible) it will be for McDavid to put on these "20 pounds" you suggest unless much of it is fat, which would actually be a detriment to him. At the age of 16 most players are expected to put on about 5 to 10 pounds MAX going into the next year.
The biggest difference between their rookie year and second year is learning how to play the game, not just getting bigger. McDavid has had his time to learn the game, yet is still not performing the way Crosby has.
Crosby didn't just put up points, it was his ice and he made it known. for the 100th time, McDavid will be great, but I am willing to bet my life savings that he will never be as good of a player as Crosby.
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