C Connor Bedard - Regina Pats, WHL (2023 Draft) Part 2

[Bubbles]

Crosby did what he did a year later. Crosby had elite linemates in Pouliot and Roussin. Bedard did not. Bedard did it in a league that is far harder to score in. Guys like Getzlaf, Barzal, Point ect. never did what Bedard did as a 15 year old.

Agreed. Had he a full season and not left for the u-18, he would have destroyed the WHL.

 

[snipes]

Agreed. Had he a full season and not left for the u-18, he would have destroyed the WHL.

He destroyed the U-18s as well.

I will never forget this goal.

That Gold medal game was fantastic hockey, the Russians have some outstanding players on this team as well. I left that game knowing without absolute confidence that the future of hockey is in good hands.

 

[daver]

Crosby did what he did a year later. Crosby had elite linemates in Pouliot and Roussin. Bedard did not. Bedard did it in a league that is far harder to score in. Guys like Getzlaf, Barzal, Point ect. never did what Bedard did as a 15 year old.

Let's get the facts straight before going overboard on the hype.

He was 2nd in PPG in the league at 1.87 thru 15 games (1st was 2.00 thru 12 games). The 3rd best (1.79) and the 4th best (1.74) PPGs played more games than Bedard.

He was arguably the best offensive player in the W. Impressive for a 15 year old but it was not what Crosby was doing a year later which was dominating the Q and making a mediocre player like Roussin into a star (it is laugable to try to play the linemate card against Crosby).

 

[HOPE]

welcome to Montreal

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby did what he did a year later. Crosby had elite linemates in Pouliot and Roussin. Bedard did not. Bedard did it in a league that is far harder to score in. Guys like Getzlaf, Barzal, Point ect. never did what Bedard did as a 15 year old.

Using the word elite for those 2 guys is a real stretch IMO.

 

[Double Dion]

Let's get the facts straight before going overboard on the hype.

He was 2nd in PPG in the league at 1.87 thru 15 games (1st was 2.00 thru 12 games). The 3rd best (1.79) and the 4th best (1.74) PPGs played more games than Bedard.

He was arguably the best offensive player in the W. Impressive for a 15 year old but it was not what Crosby was doing a year later which was dominating the Q and making a mediocre player like Roussin into a star (it is laugable to try to play the linemate card against Crosby).

Roussin was not a mediocre player. You stating that tells me all I need to know about what you know about Junior hockey.

 

[Double Dion]

Using the word elite for those 2 guys is a real stretch IMO.

Both were elite junior players.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Both were elite junior players.

Roussin was drafted in the 7th round before Crosby, had 54 pts in 71 games in his draft year - I wouldn't exactly call that elite. He meshed extremely well with Sid and got taken in the 2nd round in 05. The guy hardly sniffed the AHL let alone the NHL, I would say we can say with some confidence he was massively benefiting from Crosby, borderline being carried.

Pouliot was a good Jr player, actually he and Roussin grew up playing with each other in Quebec so they were very familiar as line mates. Both would have been successful without Crosby in the Q but Roussin likely never would have been drafted at all in 05' without him. Calling them elite linemates is a major stretch

 

[Gold Standard]

He destroyed the U-18s as well.

I will never forget this goal.

That Gold medal game was fantastic hockey, the Russians have some outstanding players on this team as well. I left that game knowing without absolute confidence that the future of hockey is in good hands.

nobody scored a more beautiful goal than that one last season. GOtY in my humble opinion.

Let's get this new season rollin already.

 

[daver]

Roussin was not a mediocre player. You stating that tells me all I need to know about what you know about Junior hockey.

Your implication that Crosby would not have been as productive if not for "elite" linemates and ignoring any context about Bedard's PPG relative to the league tells me all I need to know your opinions.

At every level he has played, Crosby's claim to fame to has been his ability to produce with any quality of linemates and to lead his to championships.

All the best to Bedard if he can reach and maybe surpass the bar Crosby set. If he does, it will be an historic accomplishment because Crosby had the best pre-draft CHL career in history.

 

[daver]

Both were elite junior players.

Roussin was the 16th forward from the Q taken in the 2003 draft. He was well below a PPG in his draft year. He never reached above getting a sniff of the AHL as a pro. Plays with one of best CHL prospects of all-time and a Top 10 player all-time, and leads the Q in goals.

Pretty safe to say that Roussin was anything but "elite" on his own.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Here’s my issue with this discussion.

I could see the argument that he was as or more impressive than those guys in junior at that age. The argument was already made.

What I think has been ignored, which shouldn’t be ignored, is that Bedard is currently 5’9 and an above, but not great, skater. I’m not sure he sticks at center without growing taller or at least improving his skating, getting a lot stronger, and better defensively. Marco Rossi at 5’9 has the same questions. They are there for any 5’9 player trying to play center in the NHL.

Bedard has plenty of time to improve in some physical attributes. He probably will. Most players do from their D-2 to when they are drafted, but until that happens, I think the comparisons to generational players miss an obvious element. Does he have the shot/playmaking/sense/statistics of those players? Yes, but there’s more to hockey than that. It’s the same argument for Michkov. There’s more to hockey than the points or goals column, and there are some questions how these kids project to the NHL game.

 

[wetcoast]

Here’s my issue with this discussion.

I could see the argument that he was as or more impressive than those guys in junior at that age. The argument was already made.

What I think has been ignored, which shouldn’t be ignored, is that Bedard is currently 5’9 and an above, but not great, skater. I’m not sure he sticks at center without growing taller or at least improving his skating, getting a lot stronger, and better defensively. Marco Rossi at 5’9 has the same questions. They are there for any 5’9 player trying to play center in the NHL.

Bedard has plenty of time to improve in some physical attributes. He probably will. Most players do from their D-2 to when they are drafted, but until that happens, I think the comparisons to generational players miss an obvious element. Does he have the shot/playmaking/sense/statistics of those players? Yes, but there’s more to hockey than that. It’s the same argument for Michkov. There’s more to hockey than the points or goals column, and there are some questions how these kids project to the NHL game.

I'll have to disagree for 2 reasons (not based on the best of grounds to be sure) but maybe better to call them hopes than reasons.

1. I love Rossi
2. I love the idea of a guy being 5'9" and that skilled doesn't make a difference than if he was 5'11" and slightly less skilled.

Of course in the NHL what you are saying makes alot of sense here.

But for Bedard his hockey IQ, stickwork and shot (which is NHL ready right now IMO) makes up for being only 5'9" and not being McDavid fast.

He also has that "it factor" like a Gretzky, Crosby ect to be the best and do what it takes.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Isn’t he 16? He’s probably still growing.

If he ends up only being 5’9 obviously that’s an issue. Not to the point where it would stop him from being a great NHL’er, but it could be tough to be an all-time great at that size. I think Marchand is the only top-20 player in the league that’s 5’9.

 

[wetcoast]

Isn’t he 16? He’s probably still growing.

If he ends up only being 5’9 obviously that’s an issue. Not to the point where it would stop him from being a great NHL’er, but it could be tough to be an all-time great at that size. I think Marchand is the only top-20 player in the league that’s 5’9.

Well his uncle and 2nd cousin are both listed at 6'0" and Connor is listed at 181 lbs so I doubt size will be an issue with him as he has a Mathews type of shot and probably better puck skills and better hockey IQ as well.

I also think that the size concerns for Rossi are over rated as well.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well his uncle and 2nd cousin are both listed at 6'0" and Connor is listed at 181 lbs so I doubt size will be an issue with him as he has a Mathews type of shot and probably better puck skills and better hockey IQ as well.

I also think that the size concerns for Rossi are over rated as well.

It probably won’t be a problem long-term, but undersized players are not a sure thing and the suggestion is that Bedard is a generational player, and maybe the best player since Gretzky.

 

[wetcoast]

It probably won’t be a problem long-term, but undersized players are not a sure thing and the suggestion is that Bedard is a generational player, and maybe the best player since Gretzky.

I think he has competition for best since Gretzky with Mario, Crosby, McDavid.

That being said Bedard is exceptional at 15 and I hope he continues to develop he is an extremely exciting prospect to say the least.

 

[93LEAFS]

Well his uncle and 2nd cousin are both listed at 6'0" and Connor is listed at 181 lbs so I doubt size will be an issue with him as he has a Mathews type of shot and probably better puck skills and better hockey IQ as well.

I also think that the size concerns for Rossi are over rated as well.

I think you are underrating Matthews puck skills. He's one of the harder players in the NHL to take the puck off of, and has flashy moves when he needs them.

 

[wetcoast]

I think you are underrating Matthews puck skills. He's one of the harder players in the NHL to take the puck off of, and has flashy moves when he needs them.

Actually I think very highly of Matthew puck skills, I just think given his age at that tournament his puck skills and deceptiveness on that goal was outstanding and that Bedard might top out better in that department in the NHL

Mind you it was on a quick break on a shift change but it was still a world class play and came after he didn't convert earlier.

 

[kabidjan18]

Well his uncle and 2nd cousin are both listed at 6'0" and Connor is listed at 181 lbs so I doubt size will be an issue with him as he has a Mathews type of shot and probably better puck skills and better hockey IQ as well.

I also think that the size concerns for Rossi are over rated as well.

This post is amazing...so he will take on the size of his distant relatives and together with his rocket richard quality shot and his puck skills and hockey IQ which are superior to Matthews...

He will break every record ever set in the game...

 

[daver]

This post is amazing...so he will take on the size of his distant relatives and together with his rocket richard quality shot and his puck skills and hockey IQ which are superior to Matthews...

He will break every record ever set in the game...

You know that "superior to Matthews" =/= "break every record ever set" right?

Bedard looks to be the next "next one"; Matthews has been the "next Stamkos" so far in his career.

 

[kabidjan18]

You know that "superior to Matthews" =/= "break every record ever set" right?

Bedard looks to be the next "next one"; Matthews has been the "next Stamkos" so far in his career.

Comparisons between what someone "could potentially be" and what another person "has done so far" will always be heavily skewed in favor of the former.

He has Matthews' best quality, and improves on all his other strengths. And we know this when he is 15...that's incredibly optimistic.

 

[93LEAFS]

Actually I think very highly of Matthew puck skills, I just think given his age at that tournament his puck skills and deceptiveness on that goal was outstanding and that Bedard might top out better in that department in the NHL

Mind you it was on a quick break on a shift change but it was still a world class play and came after he didn't convert earlier.

Matthews being 6'3 220 gives him insane puck protection skills, combined with having elite hands. I'm not sure Bedard will ever be as hard to take the puck off him. I'd rather have guys who have insane puck retention ability than flair.

 

[wetcoast]

Matthews being 6'3 220 gives him insane puck protection skills, combined with having elite hands. I'm not sure Bedard will ever be as hard to take the puck off him. I'd rather have guys who have insane puck retention ability than flair.

I agree that Matthews will protect the puck better than Bedard but I think that Bedard has slightly higher IQ and to me he is a better version of Joe Sakic but I really hate comparisons generally.

What he did last season, even in a small sample Covid WHL will be clear to all this season when he is an elite player in the WHL 2 years before his draft.

 

[Siludin]

Bedard will look a lot like Sakic when he makes the NHL I believe, and that's not just the Vancouver angle.