C Bo Horvat (2013, 9th overall, Vancouver)

[Cancuks]

Bo is better on faceoffs. But yeah, Monahan has him beat in every other category. But give him a year and let's see.

 

[Wilch]

Stupid assumption. That's like, saying that the Canucks had a chance to draft Sidney Crosby but didn't try hard enough. Rumors are rumors. You know who starts rumors? Botchford. You know who has more credibility than Botchford? Me or You, or anyone else. That trade was never going to happen.

Dumb analogy. The rumours were Canucks were considering to move Edler before his NTC kicked in, including contact with both Carolina and Detroit. There was significant amount of smoke at the time among the rumour mills, and it wasn't out of the realm as the perceived value at the time would have been close.

Saying the Canucks had a chance to draft Crosby as a comparison is far off because there's 0 rumours. No smoke. Nothing.

Anyway, that's the last post I'm making regarding this topic considering this is a Bo Horvat thread.

 

[Rey]

Bo is better on faceoffs. But yeah, Monahan has him beat in every other category. But give him a year and let's see.

I know what you are trying to do. Just stop. I'm a canuck fan too but you don't need to try so hard to make Horvat look good. You can only wish Horvat was half as good as Monahan next year.

The best 4th line plugger face off men in the league can be acquired but no one cares.

 

[Woodtkachuk]

Don't crucify me over comparing the two. I was responding to someone who asked if you'd trade Horvat for Gaudreau straight up. I said no and tried to explain why. They aren't the same type of players.

I think Bo's is better/will be better, simple as that.

Maybe you should read my response again.

The very first thing I distinctively said was that I understand the only reason why you compared them in the first place was because someone asked if you would trade Horvat for Gaudreau straight up.

I did not crucify you for comparing them. I thought it was a weak argument to use points of all things to argue why you value Horvat more when there is clearly an abundant of other better arguments which I also listed you could have used.

You didn't just use points in general, you used only even strength points and averaged Horvat's future production with his hottest production after the all star break and didn't do the same for Gaudreau which made zero sense.

 

[WTG]

Maybe you should read my response again.

The very first thing I distinctively said was that I understand the only reason why you compared them in the first place was because someone asked if you would trade Horvat for Gaudreau straight up.

I did not crucify you for comparing them. I thought it was a weak argument to use points of all things to argue why you value Horvat more when there is clearly an abundant of other better arguments which I also listed you could have used.

You didn't just use points in general, you used only even strength points and averaged Horvat's future production with his hottest production after the all star break and didn't do the same for Gaudreau which made zero sense.

Ah I get it.

I agree looking at it now it's a pretty weak argument. Assumes too many things.

Maybe I should stop trying to argue with people when I'm dead tired. Now I just look dumb

 

[Heraldic]

Bo Horvat is doing great, but he gets really sheltered minutes. He's nor facing the best regularly, not even close. Monahan, on the other hand, is facing the best regularly.

 

[Wilch]

Bo Horvat is doing great, but he gets really sheltered minutes. He's nor facing the best regularly, not even close. Monahan, on the other hand, is facing the best regularly.

He's not really getting sheltered, but he isn't facing Monahan level match ups either.

 

[luiginb]

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble here, but your "Bergeron-lite" is -13.9 corsi relative with more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts.

 

[canucks10]

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble here, but your "Bergeron-lite" is -13.9 corsi relative with more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts.

Partly because of being a 19 year old in the NHL partly because linemates (Dorsett torpedoes every line he plays on from a fancy stat perspective)

Now I'm not going to call him Bergeron 2.0 just yet but going by corsi alone doesn't give you the whole picture

 

[Diamonddog01]

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble here, but your "Bergeron-lite" is -13.9 corsi relative with more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts.

The Bergeron comparisons were always silly. I think he will reach a Fisher / Legwand level which is still quite good.

 

[Thad Castle]

Bo Horvat is doing great, but he gets really sheltered minutes. He's nor facing the best regularly, not even close. Monahan, on the other hand, is facing the best regularly.

I wouldn't say he's sheltered. Last game they were up 2-1 with about 1 minute left and the coach put him out for a defensive zone draw against getzlaf. The ducks also had a two man advantage because of goalie being pulled and pp.

 

[topched88]

Bo Horvat is doing great, but he gets really sheltered minutes. He's nor facing the best regularly, not even close. Monahan, on the other hand, is facing the best regularly.

 

[topched88]

would you trade horvat for gaudreau straight up if you had the chance?

Hard choice, Id say no but im sure if I was a flames fan I wouldnt trade JG for horvat either. Its the safety and homer inside of me. Monahan on the other hand I would take for horvat in a second.

 

[Heraldic]

Horvat's numbers:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

Monahan's numbers:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

There are lots of forwards in Vancouver who get tougher minutes. Sure, he's not fed with lots of o-zone-starts, but he faces regularly third- and fourth-liners, not only, but most of the time. His Corsi on number is also pretty bad, which is not a good thing considering his QoC.

I like Horvat a lot, but like you can see from the responses, sometimes just the hype gets ridiculous.

 

[Thad Castle]

I agree that the hype is getting ridiculous. I think his potential is higher than what most people thought though.

 

[Bankerguy]

Horvat is a very good prospect but people need to temper expectations...

What he's doing as a 19 year old (at both ends of the ice) usually translates into a useful NFL player. This is reason to be excited but lets not get crazy.

2nd line two-way forward (maybe a sniff at a selke? maybe not) 60 - 65 point peak seems like a best case scenario here.

 

[Black Noise]

Horvat is a very good prospect but people need to temper expectations...

What he's doing as a 19 year old (at both ends of the ice) usually translates into a useful NFL player. This is reason to be excited but lets not get crazy.

2nd line two-way forward (maybe a sniff at a selke? maybe not) 60 - 65 point peak seems like a best case scenario here.

Damn Horvat can play football? Sick!

 

[canucks10]

Damn Horvat can play football? Sick!

Didn't you hear he's the new Quarterback of the Cleveland Browns!

 

[God]

Bo isn't an award winner at the NHL level. He's the quiet but effective type. Maybe if things work out he'll get a Selke nod late in his career, but that's about it.

 

[cc]

I agree. people are getting a little carried away with Bo.
It would be nice to see him playing with more skilled players though.
last game, he was playing a lot with Brandon macmillan
Hopefullly, kenins will replace macmillan for next game.

 

[Skead]

Just funny the dude is an underage in the NHL producing and people are already claiming what he will or won't be. Honestly it's so hard to say but if he keeps this pace the sky's the limit. Just hoping he doesn't become complacent.

 

[Black Noise]

Didn't you hear he's the new Quarterback of the Cleveland Browns!

That's not impressive at all really...anyone could be their QB.

 

[Addison Rae]

Horvat's numbers:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

Monahan's numbers:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

There are lots of forwards in Vancouver who get tougher minutes. Sure, he's not fed with lots of o-zone-starts, but he faces regularly third- and fourth-liners, not only, but most of the time. His Corsi on number is also pretty bad, which is not a good thing considering his QoC.

I like Horvat a lot, but like you can see from the responses, sometimes just the hype gets ridiculous.

There's more to advanced stats than just looking at CorsiRel and saying player A is a good possession player and B isn't. It's all about context and WOWY stats, first of all Bo Horvat is a 19 year old rookie, 19 year old rookie's are way too raw to be possession drivers, which is what Horvat is essentially asked to do when he's paired with a possession boat anchor in Dorsett. Without Dorsett, Horvat has a 48.3% CF%, and since Kennis has joined him they have a 53% CF% together. Horvat is constantly playing with Vancouver's worst players at even strength, where as Sean Monahan's most regular linemates at even strength are TJ Brodie, Mark Giordano and Jiri Hudler which is a vast difference from Horvat's 3 most common in Dorsett, Hansen and Sbisa. Monahan's numbers are inflated with these elite possession drivers because all 3 of them perform better when they aren't on the ice with Monahan.

 

[Love]

Someone show me Horvat's fancystats when he's not playing with Dorsett.

 

[canucks10]

That's not impressive at all really...anyone could be their QB.

Very true