C Berkly Catton - Spokane Chiefs, WHL (2024, 8th, SEA)

[TLEH]

Yeah man Roulette and Bertholet are pretty much Basha, Lindstrom and McKenna out there. No sense even discussing this.

 

[SlafySZN]

Always the same things said about this type of prospects. Arguing about their size and if they’re ‘’competitive’’ or good defensively. Boring.

And everytime they end up good NHLer.

 

[Bubbles]

So, anyway back to the people who actually watch games...

He just got his 7th shortie, which happens to be his 50th. He had so many chances, but a few of them were wasted by Rouelette. He really comes in the third period.

 

[Nipsey]

Really hoping the habs can get him. Reminds me of Matt Duchene. Assuming we don’t win the lottery and get Celebrini/Demidov/Lindstrom.

 

[majormajor]

Really hoping the habs can get him. Reminds me of Matt Duchene.

That's what I'm trying to avoid with Catton. Not sure about the consistent compete.

I'm hoping he has more dawg in him than Duchene.

 

[vildurson]

Duchene is actually pretty good comparison when I think of Catton. Pretty similar types.

 

[Sacha BOXviert]

Welcome to Chicago. Bedard-Catton

 

[viceroy]

Really hoping the habs can get him. Reminds me of Matt Duchene. Assuming we don’t win the lottery and get Celebrini/Demidov/Lindstrom.

I'd love to get Catton but not Lindstrom, personally.

 

[Goalfield13]

Always the same things said about this type of prospects. Arguing about their size and if they’re ‘’competitive’’ or good defensively. Boring.

And everytime they end up good NHLer.

I don't see how 5'11' 170lbs is all that small for a forward in their draft year. Seems pretty average to me.

 

[BKarchitect]

Pretty wild how divisive Catton is. Posters who I respect on both sides of the spectrum.

I wonder if he will vary as widely on pro team scouting lists on draft day…

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Always the same things said about this type of prospects. Arguing about their size and if they’re ‘’competitive’’ or good defensively. Boring.

And everytime they end up good NHLer.

I think it’s just this poster. He’s already started the same rhetoric for Hagens.

 

[ello]

I don't see how 5'11' 170lbs is all that small for a forward in their draft year. Seems pretty average to me.

youd think with Kucherov shredding the league people would have better perspective

 

[coooldude]

Some actual data

• 2010-2017, at least 175 and an average of 185 players <6ft on NHL rosters for at least a game, with 112 playing at least half a season
• Since 2017, 210 players <6ft have played at least 1 game and 123 players at least half a season.
• Roughly 15% increase in players getting one game, and roughly 10% increase in players getting half a season
• in 2022-23, of 951 NHL players who played at least one game, 215 (23%) were <6ft.

What we do not know, is what % of draftable talent is <6ft. Is it only 23%, or is it far higher? I'm guessing it's far higher, meaning that if you are <6ft your chances of success in the NHL are lower, but not zero. That said the data is clear that smaller players are able to succeed more (10% more, roughly) in the past 6 years than the 6 years before that.

Source:

Does height still matter for NHL draft prospects?

Connor Bedard is 5-10 and considered a generational talent. Jack Hughes is lighting up the NHL. So, should height still matter when NHL teams are evaluating players?

www.espn.com

 

[majormajor]

Some actual data

• 2010-2017, at least 175 and an average of 185 players <6ft on NHL rosters for at least a game, with 112 playing at least half a season
• Since 2017, 210 players <6ft have played at least 1 game and 123 players at least half a season.
• Roughly 15% increase in players getting one game, and roughly 10% increase in players getting half a season
• in 2022-23, of 951 NHL players who played at least one game, 215 (23%) were <6ft.

What we do not know, is what % of draftable talent is <6ft. Is it only 23%, or is it far higher? I'm guessing it's far higher, meaning that if you are <6ft your chances of success in the NHL are lower, but not zero. That said the data is clear that smaller players are able to succeed more (10% more, roughly) in the past 6 years than the 6 years before that.

Source:

Does height still matter for NHL draft prospects?

Connor Bedard is 5-10 and considered a generational talent. Jack Hughes is lighting up the NHL. So, should height still matter when NHL teams are evaluating players?

www.espn.com

I don't want to further the "is Catton too small" discussion, which I see as besides the point. I'm just making the small point that I hope they corrected for the total league number of players expanding by 6% in that period (expansion).

God can this discussion please go away.

So, anyway back to the people who actually watch games...

He just got his 7th shortie, which happens to be his 50th. He had so many chances, but a few of them were wasted by Rouelette. He really comes in the third period.

I watched the game. What do you make of Catton's first two periods. You see several plays where his teammates flub the puck. You also see shifts where Catton isn't trying. I'd like to see him consistently use his wheels to make space and force mistakes, but he plays more like a shark waiting to strike. Does he hate his team? Kind of a ridiculous question but it popped in my head last night.

It's hard to tell sometimes if an athlete has a compete issue (see Matt Duchene, who some are comparing Catton to favorably). Sometimes they're still developing their endurance. Sometimes they develop more consistency later. Sometimes they never do.

 

[SlafySZN]

I don't want to further the "is Catton too small" discussion, which I see as besides the point. I'm just making the small point that I hope they corrected for the total league number of players expanding by 6% in that period (expansion).

God can this discussion please go away.



I watched the game. What do you make of Catton's first two periods. You see several plays where his teammates flub the puck. You also see shifts where Catton isn't trying. I'd like to see him consistently use his wheels to make space and force mistakes, but he plays more like a shark waiting to strike. Does he hate his team? Kind of a ridiculous question but it popped in my head last night.

It's hard to tell sometimes if an athlete has a compete issue (see Matt Duchene, who some are comparing Catton to favorably). Sometimes they're still developing their endurance. Sometimes they develop more consistency later. Sometimes they never do.

Catton plays hughe minutes + PK, i don’t think it’s consistency issues or anything just that maybe he’s pacing himself in certain moments to be able to keep some energy to play on a good level the full game.

 

[TLEH]

I don't want to further the "is Catton too small" discussion, which I see as besides the point. I'm just making the small point that I hope they corrected for the total league number of players expanding by 6% in that period (expansion).

God can this discussion please go away.



I watched the game. What do you make of Catton's first two periods. You see several plays where his teammates flub the puck. You also see shifts where Catton isn't trying. I'd like to see him consistently use his wheels to make space and force mistakes, but he plays more like a shark waiting to strike. Does he hate his team? Kind of a ridiculous question but it popped in my head last night.

It's hard to tell sometimes if an athlete has a compete issue (see Matt Duchene, who some are comparing Catton to favorably). Sometimes they're still developing their endurance. Sometimes they develop more consistency later. Sometimes they never do.

You watched one game, on YouTube, from October, and then are wondering why your viewpoint differs from consistent WHL watchers?

Or you watched the game last night? So you’re two games in? I just think there needs to be a lot more tape to push back on what others have seen over a full season.

 

[majormajor]

You watched one game, on YouTube, from October, and then are wondering why your viewpoint differs from consistent WHL watchers?

Or you watched the game last night? So you’re two games in? I just think there needs to be a lot more tape to push back on what others have seen over a full season.

Incorrect and uncharitable. I watched only one on youtube. But I'm on onhockey flipping between WHL games several nights a week. I'm still very open to the possibility that my sample size is leading me astray on Catton, I don't have firm opinions on him. But I've seen enough to ask questions.

 

[Dack]

In that specific game (which is not enough of a sample size to make judgments) I thought he committed a bunch of fly-bys and didn't make the extra effort to fight for some winnable loose pucks. It's an ugly look but I don't think it's one that will hold him back from being a high-end NHLer.

After his first few years in the league Johnny Gaudreau played a similar game where he'd pretty much completely stay out of the weeds in the interest of self preservation (including his 115 point season). At the end of the day most of the bad from that video is a fairly small part of the game, it's frustrating to watch at times but I think most of the plays he's passing up on are nothing plays. He's also rarely out of position defensively, he just plays it more passively.

Additionally, there's a lot of good in that game. He's willing to use it speed to retrieve loose pucks on multiple contested dump ins, that to me says he's willing to engage physically I think maybe he just picks and chooses what pucks he wants to fight for. He beats defenders on the zone entry with ease multiple times and has masterful control on where to move the puck for re-entries. The passing is very high end and demonstrates PP ability.

I like Catton, he's one of the few guys in this class that I think have (borderline) elite upside. I think you hope he can round out his rough edges (if they exist this is literally one game) and if not you live with it because he has a very valuable skillset.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

What's the pro comparison for this kid? Been hearing a lot of him on NJ's board but figured asking here would be better.

 

[Mathieukferland]

What's the pro comparison for this kid? Been hearing a lot of him on NJ's board but figured asking here would be better.

Stutzle

 

[Bubbles]

I watched the game. What do you make of Catton's first two periods. You see several plays where his teammates flub the puck. You also see shifts where Catton isn't trying. I'd like to see him consistently use his wheels to make space and force mistakes, but he plays more like a shark waiting to strike. Does he hate his team? Kind of a ridiculous question but it popped in my head last night.

It's hard to tell sometimes if an athlete has a compete issue (see Matt Duchene, who some are comparing Catton to favorably). Sometimes they're still developing their endurance. Sometimes they develop more consistency later. Sometimes they never do.

The first two periods he was just unlucky to not get any points because his teammates flubbed some golden chances. No matter the game, he's dangerous when he has the puck. Catton is never going to be that type of player you are envisioning.

Catton uses superior IQ and great stickwork instead of speed to chase pucks or win puck battles. He doesn't hate his team, the Chiefs just lack talent and he feels he has to do more. Which he's been doing all season. His play remarkedly improves in the 3rd period from many games I've watched.

He doesn't have a compete issue and I have no idea why his size is brought up at all. I've watched games where he just takes over in the 3rd and win games singlehandedly. If that doesn't define compete I don't even know what compete means.

 

[pgfan66]

Literally only Conner Roulette is the only other player worth a damn on that Chiefs roster and hes not the line driver at all despite being an overager. He has 9 less goals and is 8 points behind Catton for team lead in scoring. 97pts as an overager vs his 105 pts draft eligible team mate. The 3rd leading scorer has like 68pts. Huh, doesnt seem like Catton is being carried now does it?

Also, if those top 6 NHLers that you try so hard to discredit as "not winners" (lol btw) are the types of players Catton is being compared to, it seems like hes in pretty good company you are aware he played a whole season of hockey after the Ivan Hlinka too right? You should probably watch some games.

He is playing with overagers on his line that never had above ppg in their whl career before this year. The next best forward is at 33 pts. His team stink. Especially the defenders that can barely transition the puck which make them rely on their forward to move up the puck. He is clearly the best forward on his team by a landslide. He is not less impactul, he is heavily relied upon. How can you say with a straight face that he is less impactful when he is at 49 goals and 105 pts with one of the best PPG for a draft eligble player from the WHL. That does not make any sense at all. Unless you expect him to produce at similar pace to Bedard and score 70 goals+ and above 140pts. In that case he would be considered generational.


No, I am not hyping him up. I am just outlining his obvious skillset and talent. He was by far the best talent at the Hlinka for team Canada. You can diminish it as much as you want it's still a fact. I am not waking you up, you are already dead sleeping on him.


I am not sure if you are being serious or just trolling at this point. Any draft pick that develop and produce at similar pace than Fiala or Nylander at the NHL level would be a huge success for the team that drafted him. Unless you have clearly delusional view on prospect but there won't be more than 5 players at best that should develop as over ppg forward from this draft and have similar careers to them. At this point, I truly believe you are just taking the piss with me and arguing just for the sake of it.

I’m a huge Catton fan and he’s without a doubt the No. 1 talent an driver of his line. But with that out of the way, I strongly disagree with the argument you two are making.

It’s normal for junior players to have good-not-great junior careers and then “explode” in their 20-year-old year. His team is garbage outside the top line but it’s certainly worth pointing out that Roulette has been fantastic this season and whichever one of Bertholet and Van Olm gets to play with them has been an excellent complementary piece. Catton has been playing close to and sometimes over 30 minutes per game on that line as well as double-shifting on the second line, plus tons of PP time.

So yes, he’s been lights out. But the whole “he isn’t getting any help” argument is bs. He’s in an extremely favourable situation in Spokane.

A better argument would be the fact that he carried the top line last year – as a 16-year-old with a 19-year-old Bertholet and 19-year-old scrub Ty Cheveldayoff on his wings.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I don't see how 5'11' 170lbs is all that small for a forward in their draft year. Seems pretty average to me.

5 foot 11 / 170 lbs has never been small (at draft)

 

[landy92mack29]

I’m a huge Catton fan and he’s without a doubt the No. 1 talent an driver of his line. But with that out of the way, I strongly disagree with the argument you two are making.

It’s normal for junior players to have good-not-great junior careers and then “explode” in their 20-year-old year. His team is garbage outside the top line but it’s certainly worth pointing out that Roulette has been fantastic this season and whichever one of Bertholet and Van Olm gets to play with them has been an excellent complementary piece. Catton has been playing close to and sometimes over 30 minutes per game on that line as well as double-shifting on the second line, plus tons of PP time.

So yes, he’s been lights out. But the whole “he isn’t getting any help” argument is bs. He’s in an extremely favourable situation in Spokane.

A better argument would be the fact that he carried the top line last year – as a 16-year-old with a 19-year-old Bertholet and 19-year-old scrub Ty Cheveldayoff on his wings.

Spokanes defense isn't overly great at moving the puck and while his linemates are solid he's the line driver. For TOI he's averaging 23:19 on the year for Spokane with 3:34 PP and 1:21 PK so his TOI isn't out of the norm at all for top prospects. Without Catton Spokane is last in the WHL

 

[Bubbles]

This kid....I don't know how many times I've said, he just absolutely takes over in the 3rd period and wins games on his own.