C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) II

[psycho_dad*]

At people thinking he got knocked out of first overall because he had a mediocre game against Russia.

contrary to popular belief GM's don't base their decision on some 7 game tournament

I don't think anyone is suggesting he is going to be knocked out of first overall because of one game. But have Laine and Puljujarvi not been better in the highest stage these guys can compete in (world junior championships)?

What should it be based on? Their performances have been better so far, and not to mention they play in a higher quality mens league than Matthews does.

So I'm just trying to understand if there is anything other than position (C instead of wing) that would speak for Matthews getting picked 1st? He is getting outplayed by two other forwards, no ways around that.

 

[Breakers]

If Laine and Puljujarvi both show up tomorrow against Russia, I don't know how Matthews keeps his #1 spot. They both showed up better in the most meaningful tournament for gauging junior players. They also both play in a better league.

Ahh NO

There is absolutely zero proof that WJC is greater than the CHL Playoffs and Memorial cup in terms of Junior player tournament.

 

[Oan]

Edit: also worth mentioning that Jordan Eberle and Brayden Schenn have some of the best WJC performances on record.

How is that relevant in here though? They had those performances after they were drafted.

 

[Breakers]

How is that relevant in here though? They had those performances after they were drafted.

Sam Reinhart vs Aaron Ekblad 2014 NHL Draft
Sam Reinhart had 4 points in his draft year WJC tournament
vs.
Aaron Ekblad 2 points in 7 games in his draft year WJC Tournament

Drouin vs Makinnon 2013 NHL Draft
Jonathan Drouin 4 points in 6 games in his draft year WJC tournament
vs.
Nathan Mackinnon 1 point in 6 games in his draft year WJC tournament

Did seem to affect these guys against their competition in the draft with beating out their competition for 1st overall.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Sam Reinhart vs Aaron Ekblad 2014 NHL Draft
Sam Reinhart had 4 points in his draft year WJC tournament
vs.
Aaron Ekblad 2 points in 7 games in his draft year WJC Tournament

Ekblad is a defenseman..

 

[behemolari]

so he is collecting easy points in NLA just as were expected, not a force at all.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Ahh NO

There is absolutely zero proof that WJC is greater than the CHL Playoffs and Memorial cup in terms of Junior player tournament.

Well, when you have the best in the world in that age class in a tournament, it kinda beats a local playoff. Jesus.

And Matthews is not playing in CHL playoffs or memorial cup, he is playing in a mens league in Europe. A mens league that is not at all comparable to the level of the mens league Laine/Puljujarvi play in.

So my question still stands. Where has he showed he should be ahead of those guys? Not in the same tournament (both outplayed him), and the league he plays in is way worse than the other two play in.

What exactly is the criteria that puts him ahead of the others?

 

[Hardyvan123]

Well, when you have the best in the world in that age class in a tournament, it kinda beats a local playoff. Jesus.

And Matthews is not playing in CHL playoffs or memorial cup, he is playing in a mens league in Europe. A mens league that is not at all comparable to the level of the mens league Laine/Puljujarvi play in.

So my question still stands. Where has he showed he should be ahead of those guys? Not in the same tournament (both outplayed him), and the league he plays in is way worse than the other two play in.

What exactly is the criteria that puts him ahead of the others?

skill set and how players project in the pros hold a lot more weight with teams on draft day.

the 2 Finn wingers are great talents and are probably going to go 2 and 3 in the draft but Mathews is still the clear #1.

 

[snipes]

Well, when you have the best in the world in that age class in a tournament, it kinda beats a local playoff. Jesus.

And Matthews is not playing in CHL playoffs or memorial cup, he is playing in a mens league in Europe. A mens league that is not at all comparable to the level of the mens league Laine/Puljujarvi play in.

So my question still stands. Where has he showed he should be ahead of those guys? Not in the same tournament (both outplayed him), and the league he plays in is way worse than the other two play in.

What exactly is the criteria that puts him ahead of the others?

Matthews is a centre, Pulju and Laine are wingers. That is what separates them from Matthews. The value of a franchise centre with Matthews skill set is too much for a team to pass up.

Both Pulju and Laine will be guaranteed top 5 picks. Maybe both top 3, but I think Chychrun will be drafted somewhere in the top 5 as well. No question that Pulju and Laine should both be taken before Tkachuk.

 

[AD1066]

How is that relevant in here though? They had those performances after they were drafted.

That's a good point. Generally speaking though I don't put too much stock into WJC performances, regardless of whether it's pre- or post-draft. There's a correlation, but I think it is outweighed by a player's entire body of work in the year or two leading up to his draft.

The two Finns are great players and I'd kill to have either. But I don't think Matthews' performance this year is below either of theirs to the extent that a scout would reconsider his ranking.

 

[behemolari]

Well, when you have the best in the world in that age class in a tournament, it kinda beats a local playoff. Jesus.

And Matthews is not playing in CHL playoffs or memorial cup, he is playing in a mens league in Europe. A mens league that is not at all comparable to the level of the mens league Laine/Puljujarvi play in.

So my question still stands. Where has he showed he should be ahead of those guys? Not in the same tournament (both outplayed him), and the league he plays in is way worse than the other two play in.

What exactly is the criteria that puts him ahead of the others?

Not ahead, he is already locked.

Now that he played "phenomenal tournament" (highly debatable after todays performance) his hype-value is enough to say so. There is no GM who wouldn't pick him at 1st simply because it would make him looking stupid.

One thing you can't debate is which is more valuable in GM eyes, centres (especially NA) are much valuable than other players. Even Nylander, Pulju, Laine have been better in this tournament and are playing much more competitive leagues with higher level it doesn't make any effect.

US markets needs their no.1 pick as much anyone else and it's their league.

WJC medal games became suddenly a minor factor here when AM did or didn't felt so, can you see the pattern here?

 

[BB88]

Matthews is a centre, Pulju and Laine are wingers. That is what separates them from Matthews. The value of a franchise centre with Matthews skill set is too much for a team to pass up.

Both Pulju and Laine will be guaranteed top 5 picks. Maybe both top 3, but I think Chychrun will be drafted somewhere in the top 5 as well. No question that Pulju and Laine should both be taken before Tkachuk.

Yep, him being C locks him for #1, but I'd hope we have seen that he isn't easily, clearly the best player of this draft, and he is 8 months older than Pulju and Laine are which is a huge advantage to him, it's basically Matthews now vs Laine/Pulju close to pre season time.

And I guess we can say that whoever will pick in the top4 is very, very lucky.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Yep, him being C locks him for #1, but I'd hope we have seen that he isn't easily, clearly the best player of this draft, and he is 8 months older than Pulju and Laine are which is a huge advantage to him, it's basically Matthews now vs Laine/Pulju close to pre season time.

And I guess we can say that whoever will pick in the top4 is very, very lucky.

It beyond luck now with Edmonton...

 

[BB88]

It beyond luck now with Edmonton...

Who's the favourite out of the top4 guys for Edmonton?

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Who's the favourite out of the top4 guys for Edmonton?

Good debate between Laine or Chychrun. Can't go wrong with either. I personally like Laine, and I bet Chiarelli does too.

 

[lawrence]

If Laine and Puljujarvi both show up tomorrow against Russia, I don't know how Matthews keeps his #1 spot. They both showed up better in the most meaningful tournament for gauging junior players. They also both play in a better league.

Ironically as I already mentioned, that the final rankings have nothing to do with the WJC, although it is a good gauging point.

Example again the 2013 WJC, we all witnessed Seth Jones, carry Team USA on his back and won the gold medal for his nation. Nathan Mackinnon and Drouin were kinda like no shows, and was outdone by Mr. Jones. At the end Mackenzie said the scouts he surveyed now is in favor of Seth Jones as number 1 pick and Nate as number 2. That was on the heals of a very very poor showing by Nathan Mackinnon though, keep that in mind, it was a cost of Nathan having a terrible tournament were he only had 1 assist in 6 games. It was his draft year. Austin Mathews has 11 points, and impressive showing of 7 goals and 4 assists, and I personally he was awesome. Of course the 2 finns are awesome too, but he`s the number 1 pick, and i`m sorry, Mathews is a point per game guy in a mens league that is similar in level to the Finnish league, there is no doubt in my mind he is the number 1 pick. Connor McDavid could have bombed the 2015 WJC Virtanen style, Eichel could have had 15 points, and Mcdavid will still go number 1.

Same situation in this draft.

Good debate between Laine or Chychrun. Can't go wrong with either. I personally like Laine, and I bet Chiarelli does too.

there is exactly 6 months left of hockey before the final rankings. This tournament was just 2 weeks. if Laine does point per game until the end of his season he will go number 1.

Chychrun is being a little undersold here right now, since he didn`t make team Canada. dude`s a stud in his own right. Big fast strong, poised, tough, who doesn`t want a guy like that.

 

[BB88]

Good debate between Laine or Chychrun. Can't go wrong with either. I personally like Laine, and I bet Chiarelli does too.

My thinking with this is that take the best player and make trades for the other after.

 

[kelsier]

Ironically as I already mentioned, that the final rankings have nothing to do with the WJC, although it is a good gauging point.

Example again the 2013 WJC, we all witnessed Seth Jones, carry Team USA on his back and won the gold medal for his nation. Nathan Mackinnon and Drouin were kinda like no shows, and was outdone by Mr. Jones. At the end Mackenzie said the scouts he surveyed now is in favor of Seth Jones as number 1 pick and Nate as number 2. That was on the heals of a very very poor showing by Nathan Mackinnon though, keep that in mind, it was a cost of Nathan having a terrible tournament were he only had 1 assist in 6 games. It was his draft year. Austin Mathews has 11 points, and impressive showing of 7 goals and 4 assists, and I personally he was awesome. Of course the 2 finns are awesome too, but he`s the number 1 pick, and i`m sorry, Mathews is a point per game guy in a mens league that is similar in level to the Finnish league, there is no doubt in my mind he is the number 1 pick. Connor McDavid could have bombed the 2015 WJC Virtanen style, Eichel could have had 15 points, and Mcdavid will still go number 1.

Same situation in this draft.



there is exactly 6 months left of hockey before the final rankings. This tournament was just 2 weeks. if Laine does point per game until the end of his season he will go number 1.

Chychrun is being a little undersold here right now, since he didn`t make team Canada. dude`s a stud in his own right. Big fast strong, poised, tough, who doesn`t want a guy like that.

Some horrible flaws in that post.

Firstly, Mackinnon played in 3rd or 4th line and didn't get even close enough minutes to be able to put on an constant point production so you can't even start drawing comparisons between Mackinnon's and Matthews's respectable WJC showings.

Everyone who watches or pays any attension to European leagues should be able to tell the difference between FEL and NLA. They are in no way in the same tier.

Also Laine has no need to put on a display of a point per game in order to be picked nr 2. Right now I guess it's a bit of a coin toss between Laine and Puljujärvi.

Matthews definitely left hoping for more in a game that mattered 'the most'. I'm guessing regardless of what happens in the gold medal or bronze medal games, he remains the favourite but he certainly isn't a lock, atleast if one of the Finns really heats it up in FEL and start scoring goals in an abnormal pace. Skillwise there's not much of a difference, just different types of players along with Matthews having advantage of being center. Both Puljujärvi and Laine atleast gave their all and showed their competitive level in the semi finals. Can't really say the same about Matthews.

 

[Rebuilt]

Or EDM tries to flip Matthews to Arizona for OEL for immediate defensive help.

Although, I hope they'll get their **** together and McDavid plays them out of the top pick discussion

OEL isnt worth Matthews. Especially the prospect of Matthews playing in Glendale.

Mathews is worth OEL and Strome if the Oilers add in something sweet of their own such as Eberle . The only defenseman they could add in is Reinhart.

 

[JawandaPuck]

New thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=111665725