C Aleksander Barkov - Tampere Tappara, FEL (2013 Draft) - Part II
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Jack DiBiase
Team Iceland Coach
- Nov 15, 2008
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Wow, talk about "text-tv-scouting". Completely different eras, leagues and teams. Try cracking the roster at 17 years old, when you have prime Kimmo Rintanen, Niko Kapanen, Kalle Sahlstedt, Joni Lius (and Mikko Rautee) as centermen before you. There's no way Barkov would have been able to overtake anyone over those 4 to get a real playing role. But I admit that Barkov is more physically ready compared to Mikko at the same age, which gives an edge in defensive play. However, Mikko also had a defensive role killing penalties etc.
I think Barkov will become a great player, but there's no way he has the endurance both mental and physical to score over 60 points next year in the NHL. Also he would need a ton of improvement in his skating to be able to produce consistently at NHL level.
EDIT:
Also it's just wrong to say that someone has a high hockeyIQ for a 17-year-old, when most professional coaches say that is the age when a player achieves their maximum hockeyIQ potential. Or does someone have an example where a player has actually improved their IQ after the age of 18?
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SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
I agree with your comment about hockey smarts. A lot of very talented players end up not making it because they simply don't have the hockey sense to make it at the next level. It's not something that you can just pick up and improve. You either know where to be and what to do on the ice, or you don't.
Jack DiBiase
Team Iceland Coach
- Nov 15, 2008
- 2,455
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Exactly. Sure you can watch hours and hours of videos and take pointers from the best coaches in the world, but you simply cannot coach hockey IQ. And that's why scouting nowadays is so important, when you have to judge the kids' smarts in addition to the skills.
I don't think lack of hockey IQ will ever be an issue with Barkov. He's definitely one of the smartest players (could very well be the smartest) in the league. It's the other areas that need work.
The reason Barkov and other young players get into big roles in the league these days is that KHL usually poaches the best (prime-age) players and the league gets emptied from every season's top crop every single off-season. The level of the league isn't what it used to be and comparing Barkov's stats to anyone else's except maybe Granlund's is useless. The players that stay long-term aren't as good as before overall, although some could probably get KHL deals but rather choose to stay at home. This applies mostly to some veterans. This makes it easier for exceptionally talented young players to get more ice time and bigger roles. That doesn't make Barkov, Granlund, Teräväinen, Armia & co any less talented, it's more of a sign of the league's overall level.
The reason Barkov and other young players get into big roles in the league these days is that KHL usually poaches the best (prime-age) players and the league gets emptied from every season's top crop every single off-season. The level of the league isn't what it used to be and comparing Barkov's stats to anyone else's except maybe Granlund's is useless. The players that stay long-term aren't as good as before overall, although some could probably get KHL deals but rather choose to stay at home. This applies mostly to some veterans. This makes it easier for exceptionally talented young players to get more ice time and bigger roles. That doesn't make Barkov, Granlund, Teräväinen, Armia & co any less talented, it's more of a sign of the league's overall level.
I agree. Even though as a finn I'd love to think we are in some golden age of prospects, I have to admit after following the SM-liiga this year for the first time in almost ten years, that the quality is horrible, and comparing Barkov and Granlund to what Saku and Teemu did in the league is pointless. Don't get me wrong, Barkov is a great prospect, but the fact that Ville Nieminen is an offensive juggernaut in the SM-Liiga of today is concerning. I remember the late 90's TPS and HIFK teams who played in the finals('99), and they had players like:
Tim Thomas
Brian Rafalski
Marek Zidlicky
Kimmo Timonen
Toni Lydman
Niklas Bäckström
Miikka Kiprusoff
Olli Jokinen
Niklas Hagman
Aki Berg
Antero Niittymäki
Fredrik Norrena
Jere Karalahti
Christian Ruuttu
And this is just two teams(mostly HIFK).
These were the kind of players that Olli Jokinen for example was playing against in the SM-Liiga, and I can guarantee you that we will not be looking back at the early 2010's in 15 years and see similar talent that the likes of Granlund, Barkov, Armia and Teräväinen is playing against. With a hint of hyperbole, I'd say that the guys that played 3rd-4th line minutes in 1999 are playing 1st line minutes today, and are considered cornerstones for their teams. With the expansion of the NHL, and more importantly, the exodus of finnish players to the KHL and Sweden to a lesser extent, the talent in the SM-liiga is terrible. I have also watched a lot of Elitserien this year, and even though it is worse than what the SM-liiga was in the late 90's, it looked like it's miles ahead of the SM-liiga today.
Just keep that in mind when hearing about what Barkov and MG did in the SM-liiga compared to our former top prospects.
BusQuets
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2010
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So basically your saying that FEL and SEL are worse than they were before KHL. I think we all knew that.
You mean these were the kind of players Olli Jokinen for example was playing with in the SM-liiga? Since he was from the same team as most of your list?
Also, Kimmo Timonen, although talented, hadn't been yet established as a hockey player, players leave Finland for KHL, Elitserien and NHL around 25years old. Timonen left Finland at 23. I'm sure that's more or less the case for the other world class talents over there excluding Ruuttu.
Are you really saying that you could take any two teams from that same season and make a comparable list to that list in the post of your's ("and this is just two teams")? Let's make it six to make it easy for you: Kalpa, JYP, HPK, Lukko, K-espoo, Ässät (that's half of the league).
I think you'll come to notice that the level of the play on average has gone up, the top teams just are not the top teams anymore. Every team has the same kind of chance of winning the league. That leads to less goals per game and "boring" kind of hockey.
Anyway I admit that the level of top players in the league has come down since there are three leagues taking the top players away compared to just one "in the old days", but the fourth liners are better than they used to be. I for one wouldn't say that Ville Nieminen should be a fourth line scrub, or would be in -98. And add to that, I don't think Nieminen would be an offensive juggernaut without Barkov, but I guess we'll see that next season when Barkov leaves for the NHL.
toewsintangibles
Leadership analyst
- Dec 23, 2012
- 1,541
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Stopped reading here. The same has happened to Elitserien, players play in KHL and NHL now and Elitserien has stopped being a destination for Finnish players for one (don't know how much of a destination it was for other hockey playing nations, but it was for Finland)
Jussi
Registered User
Well, there was just one sentence after that, so you didn't miss that much
Yes, and if you read my post, you would have noticed me saying that the SM-Liiga in the late 90's was better than what the Elitserien is today, but that the current Elitserien is better than the current SM-liiga.
Sick pass by Barkov in the first period against blues. He haven't looked tired in this game. Looks like the best player of the game and seems to be much more dynamic offensively than usually. Blues players have been in trouble with Barkov especially Marco Rosa. Looks very good even without Ville Nieminen. I hope that Barkov can keep this dynamic offensive game and doesen't play too calculated or too simple offensive game.
Jussi
Registered User
Blues are playing like crap and they've sold their best player to SKA so this game is not to be taken too seriously.
Excuse me? I think they slaughtered your Jokerit few days ago when Jokerit was leading FEL. It's not just because of badness of Blues it's more about goodness of Barkov and Tappara. Ramstedt is just 1 player and hes cooled off since beginning of the season. My hometown team is Blues and i watch alot of their games and blues have been pretty good after xmas.
Jussi
Registered User
Meh...Jokerit haven't won a game in regulation after Karlsson's departure and are playing like crap defensively and offensively at the moment. In current form even Ilves are bound to get points from them.
Just about every Blues fans saying at Jatkoaika that the team totally mailed it in tonight.
They're right that Blues wasn't good tonight but Tappara and especially Barkov were really good and that was the biggest reason.
So which games are to be taken seriously, then? If Teräväinen scores a hat trick on Ilves, is it not to be taken too seriously because it's Ilves and they suck? All regular season games are worth three points.
Jussi
Registered User
No fear of that happening with Jokerit current form... Jokerit scoring 3 goals in general is a stretch.
Barkov scores after 1:15 played in the 1st period. Did not see the goal, was watching another game....
Barkov 2+0 tonight in a Tappara OT win. Haven't seen either goal, was watching the Jokerit game.....
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Both goals on rebounds, the type of goals that seem to happen to good goalscorers, the puck just bounces straight to them....
