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Post-Game Talk: Build The Wal

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Tobias Kahun said:
Your stats only supported the other argument that he was a younger cheaper Ceci.
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Except for the fact that Emberson has dog shit results and Cody Ceci didn't.

I mean you could throw me out there and I'd be a cheaper, older Cody Ceci I guess?

If you're going to compare him to the player than you'd expect him to have comparable results. And he doesn't.
 
Spawn said:
How am I getting worked up? Someone asked to see the numbers so I provided them. And if by nonsense you mean actual tangible on ice results than... sure I guess that is nonsense lol
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He's a 6/7 defenceman. You're literally here saying that this pile of dogshit is slightly better than this pile of dogshit, the only problem being that the sligthly better pile of dogshit makes 3x the money. They're still dogshit.

Every team has one defenceman like Emberson or Ceci or Desharnais. I just don't want to pay 3 million for slightly better dogshit and not paying 3 million for dogshit has allowed us to get Walman.

So it all works out in the wash.
 
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Spawn said:
Except for the fact that Emberson has dog shit results and Cody Ceci didn't.

I mean you could throw me out there and I'd be a cheaper, older Cody Ceci I guess?

If you're going to compare him to the player than you'd expect him to have comparable results. And he doesn't.
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Your stats showed that both their results sucked.

Except one was paid to be our 6, and the other was paid to be a top 4.

I dont think you know what you're looking at when you read the stats.
 
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Spawn said:
At the end of the day all that matters is actual results. When a player spends 3 years here outperforming poor underlying numbers I tend to suspect that he plays a type of game that isn't quantified well by current advanced stats and his value is being under represented.

And fwiw:

Cody Ceci last season -5.59% relative GF%
Ty Emberson this season: -7.29% relative GF%
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Or he played on a very good team that gets the results regardless.

I wasn't even discussing Emberson so I'm not sure why he's brought into this. As you can see Ceci's on ice relative results suck. The sample is quite small for Emberson and he's a young D with very little NHL experience. The book is yet to be written on him. What I do know is there's numerous numbers that show Ceci is awful, and its a long and growing track record. No surprise his chart continues to drop off even more without a good Oilers team to keep his head only a few feet under water instead of at the ocean floor.
 
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OfCorsiDid said:
He's a 6/7 defenceman. You're literally here saying that this pile of dogshit is slightly better than this pile of dogshit, the only problem being that the sligthly better pile of dogshit makes 3x the money. They're still dogshit.

Every team has one defenceman like Emberson or Ceci or Desharnais. I just don't want to pay 3 million for slightly better dogshit.
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You seem to have an incredibly hard time grasping the concept that Ceci and Desharnais didn't have dogshit results where as Emberson does.
 
Tobias Kahun said:
Your stats showed that both their results sucked.

Except one was paid to be our 6, and the other was paid to be a top 4.

I dont think you know what you're looking at when you read the stats.
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I can't hold your hand through it. Feel free to continue to be obtuse though.
 
Tobias Kahun said:
Your stats showed that both their results sucked.

Except one was paid to be our 6, and the other was paid to be a top 4.

I dont think you know what you're looking at when you read the stats.
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This guy out here thinks that NHL GMs think that paying an extra 3 million for a +2 of GF% when they're both firmly in the negatives.
 
KlefDown said:
this team is live and die by their goaltending to their very last game of the season
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Skinner playe
Whoshattenkirkshoes said:
Couldn't watch this one as I was on the road. Can a few people give me a good recap of:

How did Walman look?

How did Mcdavid look?

How did S. Skinner look?

And just a general recap of how we did?
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1. Great
2. The best hes looked in forever
3. Very good overall, I wouldn't blame him for any GA.

Game was great best they've looked in like 2 months, a ahirty penalty call in the third got Dallas back into it along with an ugly bouncr
 
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Spawn said:
I can't hold your hand through it. Feel free to continue to be obtuse though.
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Emberson doesn't drag every player he plays with down unlike Ceci.

You can look at Walman with and without Ceci just to show how bad that fraud is.

Should I type a little slower to help you out?

And even if they are comparable players, one makes 35% of the other which means it's a net gain.

Did I type that slow enough for you to understand?

Let me guess, you probably thought that Nurse was dragging Ceci down last year.
 
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McFlyingV said:
Or he played on a very good team that gets the results regardless.

I wasn't even discussing Emberson so I'm not sure why he's brought into this. As you can see Ceci's on ice relative results suck. The sample is quite small for Emberson and he's a young D with very little NHL experience. The book is yet to be written on him. What I do know is there's numerous numbers that show Ceci is awful, and its a long and growing track record. No surprise his chart continues to drop off even more without a good Oilers team to keep his head only a few feet under water instead of at the ocean floor.
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The whole conversation revolves around Emberson. What do you mean why is he being brought into this? Follow the converstion. I'm not in here pining for Cody Ceci. He was compared to Emberson and I pointed out that the team had far better results with Ceci on the ice than they do with Emberson. And again, I don't give a f*** about underlying numbers for a guy like Cody Ceci who spent 3 years here with better actual results than his underlying numbers said they should have been.
 
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Spawn said:
You seem to have an incredibly hard time grasping the concept that Ceci and Desharnais didn't have dogshit results where as Emberson does.
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Bro these are your stats,

Cody Ceci at 5v5 2023-2024 season:
16:47 per game at 5v5, 2.67 GF/60 | 2.49 GA/60 | 51.75 GF% | 52.84 xGF%
4G, 20P in 79 GP, +12

Ty Emberson at 5v5 2024-2025 season:
13:00 per game at 5v5, 2.38 GF/60 | 2.85 GA/60 | 45.59 GF% | 51.12 xGF%
0G 10P in 61 GP, -2

They're both pretty bad. Replacement level defensemen. Dogshit.
 
OfCorsiDid said:
This guy out here thinks that NHL GMs think that paying an extra 3 million for a +2 of GF% when they're both firmly in the negatives.
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Actual results =/= expected results.

In terms of very real actual results the Edmonton Oilers scored more and were scored against less with Ceci compared to Ty Emberson. And the difference is not 2%. Emberson is by far the worst regular d-man on this team and it's legitimately not close. He hopefully wont even be in the lineup when this team is fully healthy.
 
Spawn said:
The whole conversation revolves around Emberson. What do you mean why is he being brought into this? Follow the converstion. I'm not in here pining for Cody Ceci. He was compared to Emberson and I pointed out that the team had far better results with Ceci on the ice than they do with Emberson. And again, I don't give a f*** about underlying numbers for a guy like Cody Ceci who spent 3 years here with better actual results than his underlying numbers said they should have been.
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Don't blame me because you continued your argument with another poster with me on talking points I never made. I said Cody Ceci sucks, which he does.
 
Spawn said:
The whole conversation revolves around Emberson. What do you mean why is he being brought into this? Follow the converstion. I'm not in here pining for Cody Ceci. He was compared to Emberson and I pointed out that the team had far better results with Ceci on the ice than they do with Emberson. And again, I don't give a f*** about underlying numbers for a guy like Cody Ceci who spent 3 years here with better actual results than his underlying numbers said they should have been.
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Why are we comparing how our number 6 D and number 3-4D were playing?

Ceci's actual results looked really good when the games mattered.
 
Spawn said:
Either follow along with the conversation or stay out of it lol
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I followed the conversation just fine. I just told you Cody Ceci sucks, and you tried to claim he doesn't and that he's a good #5. But he's not. A good #5 (i.e. Kulak) wouldn't get absolutely decimated the way Ceci did in a top 4 role.
 
Spawn said:
Either follow along with the conversation or stay out of it lol
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You're the one comparing how a 3.25m D plays vs 950k.

at that point just compare McDavid vs RNH.

You gonna be shocked when McDavid provides better results too?

You know theres a salary cap now and its not 2001 right?
 
McFlyingV said:
I followed the conversation just fine. I just told you Cody Ceci sucks, and you tried to claim he doesn't and that he's a good #5. But he's not. A good #5 (i.e. Kulak) wouldn't get absolutely decimated the way Ceci did in a top 4 role.
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I hope the stars coaching staff feels like spawn does.

If we see them in the WCF that'll be an easy matchup watching McDavid face Ceci 20 minutes a night.
 
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Spawn said:
Actual results =/= expected results.

In terms of very real actual results the Edmonton Oilers scored more and were scored against less with Ceci compared to Ty Emberson. And the difference is not 2%. Emberson is by far the worst regular d-man on this team and it's legitimately not close. He hopefully wont even be in the lineup when this team is fully healthy.
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The team has scored 15 less goals and has been scored on 6 more times than at this point last year. Is what you're looking at individual adjusted? Because a general lack of production literally would explain the difference in actual results. Pinning that on the #6 D man is crazy.
 
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McFlyingV said:
I followed the conversation just fine. I just told you Cody Ceci sucks, and you tried to claim he doesn't and that he's a good #5. But he's not. A good #5 (i.e. Kulak) wouldn't get absolutely decimated the way Ceci did in a top 4 role.
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Lord don't get me started on the love affair this forum has had with Kulak this year lol. Also bleeding goals against this year.

At a certain point someone consistently under or overperforming underlying numbers stops being luck and starts being that the underlying numbers clearly aren't able to quantify everything
 
McFlyingV said:
I pray everyday that Cody Ceci plays for the Oilers opponent in the playoffs. Even in limited minutes its a huge win for us.
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For a guy saying "Follow along"

This is the first post he quoted about the ceci-emberson debate

"He's a younger Cody Ceci but cheaper."

And then he posts information confirming that, and seems to prove he has no idea how the salary cap works.
 
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