Proposal: Buffalo-Minnesota
- Thread starter keppel146
- Start date
Draft cut off is Sept 15. He missed the previous year eligibility by over two months. Because he is 4 months older than his average draft class draftee you think his development should not be judged by his years played, but by his age?
Ok
I didn't mean to link those two sentences. There are too many wings. Stop. Cozens/Krebs are untouchable.
Buffalo wants Krebs to be a center. Theres a decent chance he may spend half the season (or more) in Rochester.
Cozens has played center and will continue to do so.
Yes, and so do you:Draft cut off is Sept 15. He missed the previous year eligibility by over two months. Because he is 4 months older than his average draft class draftee you think his development should not be judged by his years played, but by his age?
Ok
All 4 players were 22 to open the seasons I posted. And they were all in their 5th year from their draft. (Gaudreau was undrafted, but you could compare his D+8 and my argument still holds).
Just because fiala was very young for his draft class, you want to judge players not by their draft year when comparing them? Sorry, but that is complete crap and you know it.
Hartman was actually 2 months older than Mittelstadt, ffs.
Your arguing completely from a position of bad faith here.
When a player is 22 for 1 month out of a 6 month season, I don’t consider that to be their 22 year old season. As a reference: Eriksson Ek’s 23 year old season, he spent half the season age 22. When you did your comparison, you compared these two in their 23 year old season to a season where Fiala was 22 for the ENTIRE season. That’s a bad faith argument.
Example of your argument: This was Marco Rossi’s 20 year old season and Matt Boldy’s 20 year old season. Rossi was drafted in 2020 whereas Boldy was drafted in 2019. Rossi missed the cutoff for the 2019 draft by 8 days. Tough shit. Doesn’t suddenly make this past season his 19 year old season.
We haven’t even got to the part where the ppg stat is faulty simply because Mittelstadt played 40 games where as the others all played 60+. Not to mention the huge scoring spike from this year compared to prior seasons.
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So because there is 6 months age difference between Rossi and Boldy, you think that draft year and actually hockey seasons played should be ignored when comparing the development of these two players? and completely ignore the fact that a player like Boldy has am extra full season of development over kids in Rossi's situation due to draft rules?
It is safe to say that that pretty much sums up all of your logic in this thread.
And this is how threads go off the rails.
Draft years, age, etc...
How about, how good at hockey are they and does the team have a need for that player?
Wild have zero need for Mittestadt
Draft years, age, etc...
How about, how good at hockey are they and does the team have a need for that player?
Wild have zero need for Mittestadt
If Rossi didn't miss an entire year of hockey due to myocarditis then I would have expected them to be the same level of prospect. They would have had the same amount of "development years" if Rossi was healthy:
2019-20
Boldy - Played full season of D1 hockey at Boston College
Rossi - Played full season of OHL hockey with the Ottawa 67's
2020-21
Boldy - Played full season of D1 hockey at Boston College, played 18 AHL games after college season ended
Rossi - Was expected to compete for a spot on NHL roster, got myocarditis and was shut down for the season after 1 game for the ZSC Lions and 4 WJC games
2021-22
Boldy - Injured prior to the season, played 10 AHL games and was called up to play wing across from Fiala
Rossi - Played a full season in the AHL (wasn't a top 9 NHL spot available for him and management wanted his contract to slide for cap reasons).
There is almost no difference in development years if Rossi is fully healthy.
By your logic, someone who is born September 14th isn't comparable to someone born September 16th because "draft class." What a whacky way of looking at things.
It's experience, not age.
We learn our trades by schooling/coaching/on job experience. Hockey is no different.
We don't say, well that guy is six months older than the other guy, so I guess he only needs 3 years of med school instead of four.
Hartman was 2 months older than Mittelstadt. Eriksson Ek was two months younger. Fiala was 6 months younger than Eriksson Ek. They all were in their D+5 year and they all had the same amount of years of coaching and games experience. For some reason you think Fiala should be compared differently because he is half a year younger.
It doesn't matter, it is all just a another strawman, but even your strawman arguments lack common sense, and the entire HF community is dumber for having to read this garbage.
Bottom line, Buffalo is not trading any of it's firsts or young players for Fiala. You think Ottawa is going to part with a top ten pick for him, I say it would be an idiotic move on their part to do so, but good luck with that.
Just so I understand your view. You would rather have a prospect then something that is proven?
That is a generalization and it will always be dependent on the situation. For the record, for Buffalo, I would rather keep Peterka and whomever they can draft at 9OA(should be a great prospect) than move them for an RFA winger that would be pretty redundant on this team and is one year from UFA with arbitration rights who happens to be coming off of a career year and looking to get paid.
Buffalo is not in a position to trade for Fiala due to age/ contract status/ team make-up and timeline.
Sabres need a Goalie and Adams and Granato have both adamantly stated that the team is not competing this year, they are going into another year of developing the kids. That is ultimately why Buffalo will not be trading their firsts or prospects for Fiala.
But the ridiculous discussion over the last three pages was not even about a trade or value, it was just back to back strawman arguments that all revolved around the notion that Mittelstadt is just a crappy 4th line center.
New Jersey (to me) seemed like the natural trade partner for Fiala. Them winning a lottery pick was not good for Minny.
As long as they are paying Matt Murray and Colin White I'd be surprised if Ottawa adds an 8 million dollar wing. They already have one of those.
I think the Sabres would go hard for a wing like one of the Tkachuks. It is not a diss on Fiala but he isn't the mega-star we are looking for. Center? Sure. Power forward? Sure.
Kap and Fiala could only get Minny so far. Id rather allocate Sabre cap resources differently. Skinner/Fiala/Tuch is a lot of money on the wing and this is assuming we trade Olofsson, for a disappointing return because that is what he would fetch.
If I'm Kevyn, 16th overall plus a 2023 2nd is a no brainer. Its a discount deal and you figure it out. 9th + 2023 2nd is a fair deal but then we miss out on probably our last top 10 pick for a long time and a key cheap player that could be part of a Stanley cup contender in a few years. For the same reason you wouldn't want to pay Kap/Fiala 17 million, the Sabres wouldn't want that with Skinner/Fiala. It would be counterproductive to long-ish term deals with our young blue chip prospects
As long as they are paying Matt Murray and Colin White I'd be surprised if Ottawa adds an 8 million dollar wing. They already have one of those.
I think the Sabres would go hard for a wing like one of the Tkachuks. It is not a diss on Fiala but he isn't the mega-star we are looking for. Center? Sure. Power forward? Sure.
Kap and Fiala could only get Minny so far. Id rather allocate Sabre cap resources differently. Skinner/Fiala/Tuch is a lot of money on the wing and this is assuming we trade Olofsson, for a disappointing return because that is what he would fetch.
If I'm Kevyn, 16th overall plus a 2023 2nd is a no brainer. Its a discount deal and you figure it out. 9th + 2023 2nd is a fair deal but then we miss out on probably our last top 10 pick for a long time and a key cheap player that could be part of a Stanley cup contender in a few years. For the same reason you wouldn't want to pay Kap/Fiala 17 million, the Sabres wouldn't want that with Skinner/Fiala. It would be counterproductive to long-ish term deals with our young blue chip prospects
You wouldn't be able to tell me the difference in experience between Rossi and Boldy from 2019-20 through 2020-21 if Rossi was healthy. All you have is an arbitrary draft cutoff date to scream "oh my gawd, look at how incomparable these players that are 6 months apart are!" Yet, you compared Mittelstadt's D+5 season to Fiala's D+5 and Mittelstadt would have been 8 months older if you lined up the timelines from when they were drafted. So 6 month difference is not comparable because September 15th. But 8 month difference is comparable because September 15th. Make it make sense.
Completely understand Buffalo thinking Fiala is not a good trade target due to contract status.
I would love to know which players on Buffalo make Fiala "redundant." You've got three comparable left wingers?
I've got faith in Don Granato's ability to coach, so maybe you are right. Guess we will see if Mittelstadt breaks out this upcoming season.
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
He got injured every time he came back early GP doesn't mean he played the whole game he basically missed the whole first half.
I think Minnesota would pay him if they could. Unfortunately the Parise and Suter contracts do not allow it. Some team is going to get an extremely electric offensive player because of Minnesota's past contract sins
Ok Captain Strawman, (is this the 4th or 5th strawman on subject to derail the main argument? I've lost count)
You seem to be uneducated in the ins-and-outs of youth hockey, both European and North american, so we will use public schools as the analogy so you can get a grasp on it.
Kids enter the school system based on age. One kid, let's call him Fiala, made the cutoff by 2 months, he is young for his grade, but he made the cutoff, so he is starting this year. Another kid, let's call him Mittelstadt, was not eligible the previous year because he missed the cutoff by being 2 months too young, but he is eligible this year so he enrolls with Fiala
Now, although there is eight months difference between these kids, they progress through the school system and learn all their core school fundamentals together. Now, when they are in highschool, should Fiala take the sophomore proficiency tests as a junior because he is younger than his peers? Everyone else in his class will take them as a sophomore. Would that make sense?
This is, in essence, what you are suggesting.
You are completely ignoring the year that Boldy was on the US development team, which is comparable to Rossi's year in Junior in your abridged cherrypicked scenario.
Maybe because there are two different paths (US vs Canadian) you can't wrap your head around how prospects are developed? I don't know, but by 2020, Boldy had a full extra year of coaching and development than Rossi.
The draft requirements stagger the kids and they are developed together, despite sometimes having an 8 month age difference.
It really is not that difficult to understand, I do not know why you are having such a hard time with this concept.
That should be a big no from Buffalo and rightly so.
Fiala is a decent player but his playoff resume over multiple years is dismal and he just wouldn't command the type of return being asked for here.
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
It'd be hard pressed to call Krebs a center he definitely isn't as good as Casey.
Bruce Granville
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2014
- 5,906
- 4,618
Given that there is not a single Sabres fan that would trade Peterka straight up for Fiala in this thread, let alone add a top ten pick on top of it, I am not sure it the thread was ever on any rails to begin with, and it probably should have been locked 11 pages ago.
That said, I will refrain from responding to the petty troll posts attacking Sabres players in here going forward.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
Fiala is 25 coming off of an 85 point season but he is too old and redundant for the Sabres. Awesome!! HFBoards never disappoints.
