Value of: BUF - NYR Samuelsson to Rs futures + roster flex to Sabes

[Drake1588]

If the Sabres need to dump a contract, they'll dump something shitty.

Jumping from that meager beachhead to "the Sabres will give up something young, cheap, effective, and signed for eternity in exchange for a light return" is a leap, to put it mildly.

This player is probably not available, and for the reasons listed above. They may have 35 contracts or more they would shed first.

 

[bernmeister]

I am just getting in, and I thank all who posted so far

if content warrants, I will as appropriate try to at least extend courtesy responses by tom-Fri

REMINDER
this is a value of thread, seeking feedback to a premise

I did NOT say Lindgren to Sabes
I said Lindy to be dealt anyway

I did NOT have a final proposal here
I asked to see IF there were names that fit the premise, if yes, what are they, what combos might work
I did this with an open mind
so yes, do feel ok to throw me shade where warranted, but again, this time the purpose was to research an idea from more than one side rather than ask for feedback on a specific trade.


Also, again, premise as relayed from a Yardbarker article, is based on Sabes are partially backed into a corner -- which is neither insurmountable nor the end of the world -- and is that BUF has players who are returning and there is zero wiggle room.
Note in support of that, CF has "roster size" highlighted inn red at "24/23"
so guys, I am not making this up

the gist of the article is someone they would prefer not to expose to waivers may have to be exposed.
Other trade avenues, also not preferential, may have to be considered

but at some pt Sabes have to not exceed 23/23 they apparently are given short excusal for

Whether or not dealing what we might call a lower level foundation piece is worth it, is another story depending on what/who is involved.

competition of ideas here, nothing more

 

[bernmeister]

So a 2nd round pick from almost 5 years ago, undersized Center who's 22 years old and has 6 points in the AHL this year... And a 3rd round pick literally regressing in the OHL in his D+1 year.


And that's it(except for more cap dumps), for a legit NHL Top 4D signed to a decent contract?


How could Buffalo ever say no.

this was not a firm proposal
it was attempting to assess if this helped move a roster body for futures, including this as one possible piece

Apparently, Sabes fans here consider Sam. more integral, and that's fine

If the Sabres need to dump a contract, they'll dump something shitty.

Jumping from that meager beachhead to "the Sabres will give up something young, cheap, effective, and signed for eternity in exchange for a light return" is a leap, to put it mildly.

This player is probably not available, and for the reasons listed above. They may have 35 contracts or more they would shed first.

Constructive post that deserves a like, but the pt of the article was that the bold would not be easy to do.

 

[bernmeister]

Buffalo doesn’t touch this construct. The only players that make sense for the NYR are Casey and maybe Joker. Both are RFAs so could be more expensive than going elsewhere for UFAs.

I saw Joker and am wondering on the price.
Again, not sure if there is any fit, given tight cap, etc both sides, but step 1 is to discuss/eliminate who could potentially be on the table

 

[bernmeister]

NYR aren't trading Lindgren this season to offset a trade they make here. It's Just not happening even if you could find way to get Buffalo to blindly sign this offer.

No matter what you view Lindgren, the team loves him. They will not be throwing that wrench at their team during the season.

Lindgren should be moved any way
Acquiring Sam. would just accelerate.
pls see further comments below

Why does a team that doesn’t spend to the cap need roster flexibility? Sabres GM won’t acquire needed players with the copious space he has already.

bold + good ?
this is not about cap = cap space compliance

this about roster size, and THAT can may not be able to be kicked much longer and when that is real, what are the consequences?

Having slaughtered the opening portion of it, I would think the defensive safety valve who handles the "takeout" part of the pair with Adam Fox is a non-starter. Why break what is working there? Lindgren is a warrior, gives up his body constantly to win physical confrontations and block shots. If the idea is that Samuelsson is needed to replace that, why is Lindgren being shipped out? Enlighten me.

Samuelsson is not directly tied in to moving Lindgren.
Sam. was mentioned here b'c may be an opportunity IF Sabes need to move a guy on the roster for futures.
{Obv nobody gonna take a bad roster player w'o Sabes paying for cap dump, which in this case could address roster size also.
Other avenue, was if decent or good player could return enuf futures.}

I have no hatred of Lindgren and I appreciate his sacrifices for my team.
That said, effin R mgmt does not develop youth, which perpetuates a cycle.

We stupidly held on to Buchnevich, who we were not gonna afford to keep, until the last possible second, and got bupkis for tail end of his rfa status. Buch would have returned much more earlier, and that is the smart move.

We should be giving Robertson minutes Jones gets.
We have Scanlin + in the pipeline
We should move Lindgren NOW

 

[sabremike]

This honestly might be the single most ridiculous proposal/trade idea in HFBoards history.

 

[SML2]

This team is looking like it may make some noise. There is no moving of key players from the core happening until the off-season if at all.

 

[n8]

Is this trade assuming Jacob Trouba is traded the second his NMC becomes a LNTC this summer?
Our RD is Fox, Trouba, Schneider and I don't see that changing. We could use some depth for the playoffs but Samuelsson is overkill for that. From the Sabres perspective, it'd be a bit loopy if they needed to clear up a roster spot and traded one of their top D-men (3rd in TOI) in response.

 

[Irie]

if content warrants, I will as appropriate try to at least extend courtesy responses by tom-Fri

REMINDER
this is a value of thread, seeking feedback to a premise

It is hard to respond seriously when your hypothetical value trade would have less than zero interest to Buffalo.

Here is a reminder:

The Sabres were 33-18-4 last season with Samuelsson in the lineup and 9-15-3 without him.

If you are trying to figure out the Value of Samuelsson to the Sabres and what it would cost to pry him free, I can tell you right now your 1st round pick would not be enough, so start there and add. (I have a feeling that that little item of info ends the discussion).

As far as Jokiharju, don't listen to the couple of Sabres fans that have been trying to deal him for anything at all for years. Management has been patient with him and that patience is starting to pay off. While he is a lot more available than Samuelsson, he isn't a player they are looking to move for peanuts now that he is finally starting to arrive and play like a former 1st rounder.

If they need to move bodies out, Jost or Olofsson could be waived short term and it is doubtful anyone touches either with their current cap hits. The team can retain and try to move either if there is any league wide interest (doubtful), and they can also move Levi up and down as necessary for any extra little wiggle room while the roster is sorted out,

There really is not a huge looming contract issue like some media outlets are reporting.

 

[Jeremy2020]

Also, again, premise as relayed from a Yardbarker article, is based on Sabes are partially backed into a corner -- which is neither insurmountable nor the end of the world -- and is that BUF has players who are returning and there is zero wiggle room.
Note in support of that, CF has "roster size" highlighted inn red at "24/23"
so guys, I am not making this up

Well, the article and thus the premise for your thread are wrong.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Wait… so you mean the Sabres could have traded their best right defenseman for peanuts to avoid having to waive a player who is almost totally useless (Tyson Jost)?
Damn, why didn’t Kevyn Adams think of that?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Is Samuelsson even good?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

This honestly might be the single most ridiculous proposal/trade idea in HFBoards history.

It’s why we need a dislike button. Or, like, if 5 people click a new “dumb thread” button, the thread is deleted and your avatar gets a dunce cap for a month.

Or, hey- OP. Toews for Jokiharju and Okposo. For reasons.

 

[Beerz]

Is Samuelsson even good?

Yes.. in the sense of old school defender. He won't wow anyone with puck skills or skating skills ..but he is a warrior.

He has struggled this year with bad giveaways tho.

I have no interest in trading him

 

[One Winged Angel]

Ahhh Bern with another off the rails type of proposal but without the classic references such as Coke for Pepsi, No Sacred Cows and whatever other Bern-isms he normally uses.

Oh well, same result either way. Quantity for quality and a stern rejection.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

They waived Jost. This stupid idea can be put to rest.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Yes.. in the sense of old school defender. He won't wow anyone with puck skills or skating skills ..but he is a warrior.

He has struggled this year with bad giveaways tho.

I have no interest in trading him

Sounds like Lindgren. Even down to the Swedish last name lol

 

[Unbiased Fan]

In a vacuum league wide I think value wise Samulasson=Keandre Miller.

Two totally different players tho.

 

[Dulind]

Cobra is one of the few guys we've needed for years that actually plays effective defense. Why would we trade away a vital need that's been filled with him being on our roster?

 

[Beerz]

In a vacuum league wide I think value wise Samulasson=Keandre Miller.

Two totally different players tho.

Probably pretty close.. Miller probably has a bit more due to him having so much more ability to improve with his skill and athleticism. I think Sammy will only improve smarts wise as he gets more experience

 

[Boondock]

The OP reads like a very one-sided Op-Ed piece. There is just enough true information that some under-educated people might think this makes sense, but it comes off like a "I want this, and I will reverse engineer a trade to justify my ask.

1 - Yes it is a value of - but you have assigned a value with your suggestions by offering players like Henriksson, MC-B and doubled down with the dumps the Sabres could take on Belzille etc. Quite clearly none of these pieces have even close to enough value to be the main piece in a trade for Samuelsson but you included these in your post which leads to the assumption that this is your perceived value. For a teams top 3 big strong stay at home dman, signed to a very team friendly deal long term - all the pieces you mentioned would be the +'s not the main value in a trade.

2 - You are asking for the Sabre's #3 dman in ice time, #2 LHD, he is 23 years old and signed for less than $4.3 for the next 7.5 seasons. He is 2nd on the team in blocked shots, 2nd in hits, 2nd amongst Dmen in PK time. He is 6'4" and plays a very important role for the Sabre's. Without him the Sabre's clearly would need to bring in a defense first 2nd pairing dman. Doesn't make any sense for a young team to trade a 23 year old during a re-build. So clearly no thought into the Sabre's needs or team were considered in the OP

3 - The players you mentioned from the Rangers are not even in the same realm as Samuelsson from a team value perspective. Henriksson is a 22 year old undersized forward that has 23 points in 93 AHL games. This guy is the + to try to sweeten the deal. BM-B is an overager in the OHL who's scoring has dropped this season over last. I don't see any value at this point. He is trending towards not being qualified, not being a trade chip for a top 4 NHL dman.

4 - What does Buffalo need to improve their team? So moving an NHL roster player off the roster is the goal, but where is there weakness in the Sabre's system? Players on the Sabre's under 25 years old - Peterka, Cozens, Quinn, Benson, Krebs, Dahlin, Powers, Samuelsson, Joker, Levi, Luukkonen. Players not on the Sabre's yet Rosen, Savoie, Ostlund, Kulich.
So the need for young forwards without much chance of making the NHL is not very high. Top 3 needs for the Sabre's seems to be 1 - NHL goal tending, 2 - NHL bottom 6 depth (I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes a Morgan Barron helps win more than a Victor Olofsson, 3a - NHL third pairing upgrade or 3b - high end defensive prospects. I'm not a Buffalo but this is my take. The issue is that your proposal does not provide any sort of improvement in the areas the Sabre's need. No goalie, no improved depth and no high end prospects of any type.

5 - I understand the premise that the Sabres' would be looking to solve a roster size problem. What I don't understand is why anyone would think that the best way to accomplish this would be to trade away their 23 year old #3 dman. It would seem to me that you could accomplish the same thing with much smaller moves or moves that add valuable assets that the organization needs. Olofsson, Jost, Greenway, Okposo, Robinson - would all be waived/given away before Buffalo would trade Sam for pennies on the dollar, Benson, Quinn, Peterka, Powers and Levi can all be sent down with no waivers - even if its just a paper transaction and they stay with the NHL team.

6 - So I don't know what the value of Sam is in a trade, but if I'm the Sabres and I'm trading with The blue shirts I would be asking for Rangers #1 (its going to be late in the round) and Robertson. Even that might not do it given the teams lack of internal replacement.

 

[The Real JT]

…
We stupidly held on to Buchnevich, who we were not gonna afford to keep, until the last possible second, and got bupkis for tail end of his rfa status. Buch would have returned much more earlier, and that is the smart move.

We should be giving Robertson minutes Jones gets.
We have Scanlin + in the pipeline
We should move Lindgren NOW

To stay on topic, I have to agree with the masses. No team with little depth on D will give up a cost controlled #4Dman for a collection of low value assets (aka “a bag of pucks”).

As for the Buch reference: Spin it any way you want, that was awful asset management by Drury. Sure he had cap problems, but he found enough money to sign Goodrow and he held onto Kravstov, Kakko and Laf when flipping any of them would’ve given the Rangers the opportunity to attach lesser contracts easing his cap crunch.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

This honestly might be the single most ridiculous proposal/trade idea in HFBoards history.

Probably wasn't even the worst trade proposal of the day. There's a lot of terrible ones.

 

[bernmeister]

Probably wasn't even the worst trade proposal of the day. There's a lot of terrible ones.

I have to catch up w/this thread which I hope to do by Tues.
Thanks for the kind word.
Not original, but like I always say:
tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide

 

[bernmeister]

To stay on topic, I have to agree with the masses. No team with little depth on D will give up a cost controlled #4Dman for a collection of low value assets (aka “a bag of pucks”).

As for the Buch reference: Spin it any way you want, that was awful asset management by Drury. Sure he had cap problems, but he found enough money to sign Goodrow and he held onto Kravstov, Kakko and Laf when flipping any of them would’ve given the Rangers the opportunity to attach lesser contracts easing his cap crunch.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and agree or disagree, I champion the competition of ideas. Just ask everyone be honest and substantiate what you say, preferably as objectively as possible.

Cap reality forces choices.
Exceptions to every rule, but rule applied here, Rs should have already sold high on Lindgren.
Preference to win now by hanging on to vets and not developing youth = long term failure to maximize possibilities.
I could be wrong, but recent history of Rs not getting far enough/winning the cup suggests I'm right.

As to Buch, apparently we agree.
And as to the rest of that,
LaF was a keeper; whether we should sell high now depends on the return, but unless it is a foundation piece, then no. So I agree w/Drury on not moving him before.
KK I am bullish on, we should not move esp if we think good health and correct linemates = good chemistry [as evidenced in the kid line], so no deal then, or for the time being now.

Kravtsov I was not super arrogant and insisted we draft him, I was ok with going along. Howev, my choice was the large righty shot RD Dobson, and if we had listened to me then, we would have been better off.