Confirmed Trade: [BUF/EDM] Ryan McLeod and Tyler Tullio for Matt Savoie

[sting101]

Not sure i get the move from the Sabres perspective. Players like McLoed can usually be found for 2nd and 3rd rounders if young and through non qualified RFA turned UFAs even as the Bruins did with Morgan Geekie and Stars with Sam Steel.

To give up a recent 9OA that just scored PPG in the AHL seems like a horrifying gamble even if Ryan McLoed has the ability to be a really good btm6 player for many years.

Just because you have a surplus of small top6 wingers doesn't mean you should be hasty in acquiring pieces that might fit your roster composition better going forward especially at the behest of giving away talent age and contract advantages.

Sabres scouts better have done a good job assessing Savoie or this one could bite them in the ass.
In saying all that McLoed has the potential to still be an elite btm 6 player given his tools just not sure the toolbox will ever be able to minimize his mistakes

 

[LTIR]

Not sure i get the move from the Sabres perspective. Players like McLoed can usually be found for 2nd and 3rd rounders if young and through non qualified RFA turned UFAs even as the Bruins did with Morgan Geekie and Stars with Sam Steel.

To give up a recent 9OA that just scored PPG in the AHL seems like a horrifying gamble even if Ryan McLoed has the ability to be a really good btm6 player for many years.

Just because you have a surplus of small top6 wingers doesn't mean you should be hasty in acquiring pieces that might fit your roster composition better going forward especially at the behest of giving away talent age and contract advantages.

Sabres scouts better have done a good job assessing Savoie or this one could bite them in the ass.
In saying all that McLoed has the potential to still be an elite btm 6 player given his tools just not sure the toolbox will ever be able to minimize his mistakes

All fair points but Savoie us still a magic bean who might not work in NHL despite the projections. McLeod is a young, fast, cheap right hand legit NHL center with room to grow.
If Oilers had the cap space they would have kept him over Savoie as 3rd line W or 4th line C. Same with Foegele. If we had the cap space we would have kept him.

Like I said , this is a win win.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

All fair points but Savoie us still a magic bean who might not work in NHL despite the projections. McLeod is a young, fast, cheap right hand legit NHL center with room to grow.
If Oilers had the cap space they would have kept him over Savoie as 3rd line W or 4th line C. Same with Foegele. If we had the cap space we would have kept him.

Like I said , this is a win win.

McLeod shoots left

 

[Cup or Bust]

Not sure i get the move from the Sabres perspective. Players like McLoed can usually be found for 2nd and 3rd rounders if young and through non qualified RFA turned UFAs even as the Bruins did with Morgan Geekie and Stars with Sam Steel.

To give up a recent 9OA that just scored PPG in the AHL seems like a horrifying gamble even if Ryan McLoed has the ability to be a really good btm6 player for many years.

Just because you have a surplus of small top6 wingers doesn't mean you should be hasty in acquiring pieces that might fit your roster composition better going forward especially at the behest of giving away talent age and contract advantages.

Sabres scouts better have done a good job assessing Savoie or this one could bite them in the ass.
In saying all that McLoed has the potential to still be an elite btm 6 player given his tools just not sure the toolbox will ever be able to minimize his mistakes

I agree completely. McLeod is not the guy you risk trading a recent top 10 pick for, he doesn't have the upside worth making that deal. Players like him and Puljujarvi benefited greatly from the Oilers having no depth at all, but once the Oilers had an ounce of NHL depth, both got outplayed by almost everyone else on the roster and just moved lower down the depth chart. I do agree though that McLeod has some nice tools but his head for the game is just not that good, similar to Puljujarvi. I get that the Sabres wanted a different kind of player I just don't think McLeod is going to fill the role they want him for as good as they hope he will. I would have looked for other options if I was willing to give up any reasonable assets. It is possible Savoie doesn't turn out also but any draft pick could potentially not turn out, that doesn't mean you risk trading it for players with lower potential. It's no coincidence that the Oilers third line improved immensely once the Oilers got Henrique to replace McLeod. The one thing I will say though is that McLeod showed some flashes and seemed more consistently effective in the short stretches when he played the wing and I personally think he would be a more effective NHL player as a winger then a center so that might be an option if he continues to be so inconsistent as a center.

 

[sting101]

I agree completely. McLeod is not the guy you risk trading a recent top 10 pick for, he doesn't have the upside worth making that deal. Players like him and Puljujarvi benefited greatly from the Oilers having no depth at all, but once the Oilers had an ounce of NHL depth, both got outplayed by almost everyone else on the roster and just moved lower down the depth chart. I do agree though that McLeod has some nice tools but his head for the game is just not that good, similar to Puljujarvi. I get that the Sabres wanted a different kind of player I just don't think McLeod is going to fill the role they want him for as good as they hope he will. I would have looked for other options if I was willing to give up any reasonable assets. It is possible Savoie doesn't turn out also but any draft pick could potentially not turn out, that doesn't mean you risk trading it for players with lower potential. It's no coincidence that the Oilers third line improved immensely once the Oilers got Henrique to replace McLeod. The one thing I will say though is that McLeod showed some flashes and seemed more consistently effective in the short stretches when he played the wing and I personally think he would be a more effective NHL player as a winger then a center so that might be an option if he continues to be so inconsistent as a center.

Possibly on the winger option but that would make the move an even more curious one if he ends up as a 3LW. He's never going to outclass Benson and Peterka long term and with Kulich best fazed in as a LW that window is probably this year at best but then Zucker just got a 1yr deal at LW so it certainly looks as Buffalo sees him as a long term 3C.

I actually really like the additions of Byram and McLoed for the Sabres. Moving Mittlestadt and Savoie to do it could also be a big win.

The issue i would have from the Sabres perspective is the asset paid for McLoed. It's not like the Sabres don't have C options short term or are a contender. The organization should be laser focussed on a top6 guy that can grow with the team and they could have used Savoie for that rather than a lower upside player who's had issues being consistent in his puck decisions.

As an Oiler fan on paper your happy with Henrique Skinner Arvidsson Podkolzin Savoie for McLoed Foegele Holloway but both Podkolzin and Savoie are not good NHLers yet and then you have 3 more over 30s forwards 32 33 35 by playoffs and lose a lot of speed (young legs) and probable durability. In fairness i'm sure they were not expecting to lose Holloway. I am curious how they look as the season wears because it certainly looks like McDavid and Draisaitl just got more heavy lifting to do 5v5. If Arvidsson stays healthy maybe it's negligible and they get better efficient players

 

[PuckG]

This seems grumpy. Perhaps a cup of coffee?

Won’t help. Fans of his team will be grumpy for the next decade.

 

[Three On Zero]

Small and injuries is why Savoie was moved. Surplus forward prospects didn't hurt.

He was a depreciating prospect that was falling further down the depth charts in Buffalo. People put too much stock in where a player was drafted in trades like this.

 

[Chainshot]

Won’t help. Fans of his team will be grumpy for the next decade.

I don't know, a good cup of java helps and I'm a fan of team that's been bad almost long enough to drive.

 

[Three On Zero]

I don't know, a good cup of java helps and I'm a fan of team that's been bad almost long enough to drive.

Coffee helps when dealing with dumb questions, coffee doesn’t help when being grumpy beer on the other hand…

 

[Three On Zero]

@Chainshot these summer views also reduce grumpiness

 

[TageGod]

He was a depreciating prospect that was falling further down the depth charts in Buffalo. People put too much stock in where a player was drafted in trades like this.

This is a classic example of selling low. He was depreciating due to injuries and being stuck in the WHL, not because of lack of performance. Sabres dropped the ball by not keeping him on the roster last season for 9 games.

 

[Three On Zero]

This is a classic example of selling low. He was depreciating due to injuries and being stuck in the WHL, not because of lack of performance. Sabres dropped the ball by not keeping him on the roster last season for 9 games.

We will see, I don’t think they sold low but I also don’t think they got what they could have for him.

 

[TageGod]

We will see, I don’t think they sold low but I also don’t think they got what they could have for him.

They 100% sold low not sure what you aren't getting. Small player, did not make roster, Injuries. That is 3 impactful things effecting his value. Being small is not specifically part of selling low, but more of a reason he is not worth his actual worth. These issues were not performance issues hurting his value.

There should have been a second or third attached to that trade for value instead of a random AHL plug.

 

[Three On Zero]

They 100% sold low not sure what you aren't getting. Small player, did not make roster, Injuries. That is 3 impactful things effecting his value. Being small is not specifically part of selling low, but more of a reason he is not worth his actual worth. These issues were not performance issues hurting his value.

There should have been a second or third attached to that trade for value instead of a random AHL plug.

Selling low would be a straight prospect for prospect swap, they still got a decent bottom 6 player. McLeod helps fill a current need.

This is going to be a wait and see how it plays out type trade and not get emotionally invested before that.

 

[bucks_oil]

McLeod shoots left

And isn't strong enough defensively to be a 3rd line center on a strong team, nor offensively skilled enough to hold down a top 6 role (on a strong team).

I know his defensive stats look good, but the eye-test STRONGLY asserts that it's not because of defensive acumen, sure he can be a puck hound with his speed in the neutral zone, but it's more that he's quick in transition and transports the puck well (given his speed) into the O-zone.

He's a near perfect transition/neutral zone player. Once the puck gets in either zone he runs out of ideas and skill. In the O-zone he doesn't have the skill or vision to penetrate from the perimeter either via pass, or driving to the net. In the D-zone his coverage and physical play are big weaknesses, only somewhat compensated for by waterbug speed.

He's a 3rd line NHL player to be sure, but I think is best suited to the wing where his strengths are best utilized and his weaknesses sheltered. Play him with a high-IQ two-way center who may lack a bit of speed and you'll find McLeod becomes a good complementary winger.

 

[bucks_oil]

This is a classic example of selling low. He was depreciating due to injuries and being stuck in the WHL, not because of lack of performance. Sabres dropped the ball by not keeping him on the roster last season for 9 games.

Can you clarify what you mean by "stuck in the WHL"?? Not sure what your expectations were/are for player development in your Draft+2 season... it's pretty par for the course for guys to play out their junior career for two seasons until the end of season two (where he scored at 2 points/game pace) and then get their first sniff of pro at the end of that year. And he did well in his sniff, with 5 points in 6 games.

This is the first year he's really eligible to be playing in the AHL. For any kid not going straight to the NHL (which you'd never have expected for a smaller player like Savoie), this season becomes the first real litmus test of a pro.

I'm not calling you out here... and I'm myself just going based on the boxcars... but where in his development did he disappoint or fall behind the curve in your mind?

If I compare him to another smallish player like, say Eberle, or Point, he's pretty much exactly on pace, if not a bit ahead based on WHL performance.

 

[TageGod]

Selling low would be a straight prospect for prospect swap, they still got a decent bottom 6 player. McLeod helps fill a current need.

This is going to be a wait and see how it plays out type trade and not get emotionally invested before that.

In what world does the context of "selling low" vary depending on the type of trade? Value is value. Say Mcleod and the prospects are both worth a 2nd. In your mind it's a fair trade for Mcleod but selling low for the prospect? That makes no sense.

Can you clarify what you mean by "stuck in the WHL"?? Not sure what your expectations were/are for player development in your Draft+2 season... it's pretty par for the course for guys to play out their junior career for two seasons until the end of season two (where he scored at 2 points/game pace) and then get their first sniff of pro at the end of that year. And he did well in his sniff, with 5 points in 6 games.

This is the first year he's really eligible to be playing in the AHL. For any kid not going straight to the NHL (which you'd never have expected for a smaller player like Savoie), this season becomes the first real litmus test of a pro.

I'm not calling you out here... and I'm myself just going based on the boxcars... but where in his development did he disappoint or fall behind the curve in your mind?

If I compare him to another smallish player like, say Eberle, or Point, he's pretty much exactly on pace, if not a bit ahead based on WHL performance.

He could not come over, but was no room for real growth in the league. He had a chance last year had 5pts in 6 games on a rehab stint and was shipped back, no look in the NHL with a floundering team. He deserved a look to showcase his talents and was denied. Then they move him. Top 10 pick never getting a real look with his own drafted team is pretty rare, even more so for a team that cant make the playoffs.

This is a knock on the GM handling Savoie. Other than the injuries, he did nothing to disappoint.

 

[Chainshot]

And isn't strong enough defensively to be a 3rd line center on a strong team, nor offensively skilled enough to hold down a top 6 role (on a strong team).

I know his defensive stats look good, but the eye-test STRONGLY asserts that it's not because of defensive acumen, sure he can be a puck hound with his speed in the neutral zone, but it's more that he's quick in transition and transports the puck well (given his speed) into the O-zone.

And I think that is why the Sabres looked for him. They wanted someone to be a puck transporter in their bottom 6 so they weren't always relying on their defense to spring the play.

He's a near perfect transition/neutral zone player. Once the puck gets in either zone he runs out of ideas and skill. In the O-zone he doesn't have the skill or vision to penetrate from the perimeter either via pass, or driving to the net. In the D-zone his coverage and physical play are big weaknesses, only somewhat compensated for by waterbug speed.

He's a 3rd line NHL player to be sure, but I think is best suited to the wing where his strengths are best utilized and his weaknesses sheltered. Play him with a high-IQ two-way center who may lack a bit of speed and you'll find McLeod becomes a good complementary winger.

I'm wondering if they wind up playing him with a high IQ winger instead in Benson who contests pucks with a rare ability to both be in the right place where the puck is going and have the quick stick to be disruptive and creative. It seems like a fit initially.

 

[bucks_oil]

In what world does the context of "selling low" vary depending on the type of trade? Value is value. Say Mcleod and the prospects are both worth a 2nd. In your mind it's a fair trade for Mcleod but selling low for the prospect? That makes no sense.


He could not come over, but was no room for real growth in the league. He had a chance last year had 5pts in 6 games on a rehab stint and was shipped back, no look in the NHL with a floundering team. He deserved a look to showcase his talents and was denied. Then they move him. Top 10 pick never getting a real look with his own drafted team is pretty rare, even more so for a team that cant make the playoffs.

This is a knock on the GM handling Savoie. Other than the injuries, he did nothing to disappoint.

Thanks for the context... I'm not sure I'd blame coach/player development though, I wouldn't have that kid anywhere near the NHL until earliest this year and even then, only if he knocked people's socks off in camp. I'm of the opinion small guys need two years of junior and at least 40 games in the AHL to make sure they don't get their head knocked off before NHL.

I agree the GM was a little bit trigger-happy to move on so quickly... but they must really like what they see in McLeod. But then again... you guys are entering the "impatient" period of your rebuild and have an embarrassment of riches at the prospect level.

And I think that is why the Sabres looked for him. They wanted someone to be a puck transporter in their bottom 6 so they weren't always relying on their defense to spring the play.



I'm wondering if they wind up playing him with a high IQ winger instead in Benson who contests pucks with a rare ability to both be in the right place where the puck is going and have the quick stick to be disruptive and creative. It seems like a fit initially.

That could work... I'd just be wary of deployment. You'd want them out vs pure shut-down guys rather than 1st and 2nd liners. McLeod just isn't a guy you want hemmed in his own zone vs bigger/smarter offensive players.

 

[sting101]

And isn't strong enough defensively to be a 3rd line center on a strong team, nor offensively skilled enough to hold down a top 6 role (on a strong team).

I know his defensive stats look good, but the eye-test STRONGLY asserts that it's not because of defensive acumen, sure he can be a puck hound with his speed in the neutral zone, but it's more that he's quick in transition and transports the puck well (given his speed) into the O-zone.

He's a near perfect transition/neutral zone player. Once the puck gets in either zone he runs out of ideas and skill. In the O-zone he doesn't have the skill or vision to penetrate from the perimeter either via pass, or driving to the net. In the D-zone his coverage and physical play are big weaknesses, only somewhat compensated for by waterbug speed.

He's a 3rd line NHL player to be sure, but I think is best suited to the wing where his strengths are best utilized and his weaknesses sheltered. Play him with a high-IQ two-way center who may lack a bit of speed and you'll find McLeod becomes a good complementary winger.

This is a good breakdown and i mostly agree but he does have the ability to be a be a good to excellent 3C on a contender.

For the money after last season with Henrique available to re sign and given your team is in win now mode his brain farts and lost coverages made him expendable but as he enters his prime years he could be a good one if he grows with experience. Was definitely not a great playoff so i can see how patience had worn thin

I highly doubt the Sabres made this deal to use him as a LW. His value (which they are gambling a lot on potentially) is down the middle

 

[bucks_oil]

This is a good breakdown and i mostly agree but he does have the ability to be a be a good to excellent 3C on a contender.

For the money after last season with Henrique available to re sign and given your team is in win now mode his brain farts and lost coverages made him expendable but as he enters his prime years he could be a good one if he grows with experience. Was definitely not a great playoff so i can see how patience had worn thin

I highly doubt the Sabres made this deal to use him as a LW. His value (which they are gambling a lot on potentially) is down the middle

I suppose it depends what you want out of your third line. If it's chipping in offense, puck possession and you've got a solid "traditional" defensive center for your 4th line... or lucky enough to have a Selke shutdown guy as your #2C... then sure, McLeod could be a fit at 3C.

He's just not what I would think of/need at 3C if I'm building down the middle, with my 3C doing the heavy lifting defensively. I mean we've had a couple of similar speedster guys (Marchant, Cogliano) who went on to be shut-down checkers on good teams... we gave up on them too early... but in both of those cases the defensive ability and hockey sense was already a lot more obvious, we just lost them (mostly) due to contract demands.

I suppose the same could be said of why we moved McLeod, but his defensive skill didn't shine for me the way the others did. Lots of clueless reads... maybe he matures that side of his game. Anything could happen, but I don't see it.

I'm not saying he won't serve a role for you guys... he tips the ice the right way. He's just not a "trust him in the last 5 mins of game 7" type of guy by my read.