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Confirmed Trade: [BUF/EDM] Ryan McLeod and Tyler Tullio for Matt Savoie

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Damn people really overvalue Savoie apparently. He’s a nice prospect but no one ever talked about him as some kind of cornerstone talent for the Sabres. His realistic projection is a complimentary middle 6 winger. Maybe he can reach a higher ceiling with 29 or 97 but he is far from a sure thing. If he was that good he would have made the team over Benson who is like 16 months younger and also outplayed Savoie when they played together in junior.

Savoie put up great numbers as an overager in junior but he never looked like a dominant force in the Mem Cup or World juniors (even before his injury). That said, Edmonton is a great fit because he doesn’t have to be the savior
 
Peasy said:
They call him a highly touted prospects because its something easy to say and hype up the trade because he was a former 9th overall pick.

I'm not a coward and will not go back on my opinion lmao. If im wrong im wrong, cant be right all the time.

Half the people saying hes highly touted probably have never seen the guy and also probably thought Shane Wright would go first in his draft year. Show me actual hockey prospect guys pumpin up Savoie. Your average NHL insider or reporter knows f*** all about them.

Players taken after Savoie that I think are currently better prospects and will have better nhl careers than him:
Mintyukov, McGroarty, Lekkerimaki, Bichsel, Snuggerud, Yurov, Kulich, Casey, Hutson. Theres many more that I think are currently to close to call atm.

Feel free to bookmark this post and talk shit if I'm completely wrong in the next 5 years.
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He's a highly touted prospect because he was drafted 9th overall and has done nothing but improve his numbers since being drafted and was even PPG in a very short AHL sample size. He's consistently rated in the top 30 of all NHL prospects.

Of course there's always a chance that he doesn't pan out but to say that he isn't a highly touted prospect is being completely dishonest. If I had proposed Savoie for McLeod 2 days ago, I would have been laughed off of the trade board and the thread would have been locked before Page 2.
 
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nbwingsfan said:
That’s not how that works at all.

Gustav Lidstrom was a 2nd round pivk who “hit” and was just given away for free from the Wings and then claimed on Waivers by Anaheim after the Habs gave him for free.


Why wasn’t he getting a 1st or 2nd?
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I dont know the specifics of that player but if our GM decided to just lose McLeod on waivers that would not have been acceptable. So you are claiming that Lidstrom was a solid depth player who was tossed away? I say that would be bad asset management

I'm guessing he was not as good as McLeod. That's the value of a draft pick who actually hits. A lot of them don't.

We've officially gone off the deep end in terms of overrating draft picks if you'd rather have a chance at a good player rather than a good player (all else being equal). McLeod was a 2nd rounder. He is of course worth more than that
 
Gabrielor said:
He is, and you'd think Edmonton fans would simply be happy with that fact, rather than jumping over each other to tell us how much McLeod sucks and how stupid we are.

Btw, if the numbers don't lie, then the advanced stats on McLeod look excellent.
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McLeod is a decent 3rd liner, maybe he can turn into a good center....but IMO these guys aren't that hard to find
he's an amazing skater but accomplishes little out there...other than going for a cardio skate
 
Royal Thunder said:
Damn people really overvalue Savoie apparently. He’s a nice prospect but no one ever talked about him as some kind of cornerstone talent for the Sabres. His realistic projection is a complimentary middle 6 winger. Maybe he can reach a higher ceiling with 29 or 97 but he is far from a sure thing. If he was that good he would have made the team over Benson who is like 16 months younger and also outplayed Savoie when they played together in junior.

Savoie put up great numbers as an overager in junior but he never looked like a dominant force in the Mem Cup or World juniors (even before his injury). That said, Edmonton is a great fit because he doesn’t have to be the savior
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This is a terrible post all around.

1. Savoie would have made the Sabres over Benson if he didn't get injured in camp.

2. As someone who lives just outside the Winnipeg area, Benson didn't outplay Savoie in the 22-23 season. If you're just stat watching though, sure Benson had 3 more points than him in the regular season. Where Savoie outscored him by a fair margin in the playoffs.

3. Savoie wasn't an overager this past season in the WHL.

4. You guys have really changed your opinion on Savoie after the trade. Oiler fans before this deal even happened wanted Edmonton to flip Mcleod. He really fell out of favor in Edmonton, especially after the playoffs he had. The heavy majority of Sabres fans still loved Savoie, and saw him as a big part of the future.

Sabres fans flipped on their former player, I don't think he can say the same for Oiler fans.
 
Skolman said:
I mean, a good portion of Oiler fans wanted McLeod gone... especially after how he played in the playoffs.

Its not like there was a sudden switch on him once he got dealt
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I personally did not want McLeod gone per se but I did see for sure that if Henrique takes the 3c job or has better chemistry and with Holloway emerging than McLeod is likely going to get press box time or he needs to find a role on the 4th line with guys like Perry and Ryan.

To me that screamed potential waivers -- so Buffalo could have gotten him for free hypothetically.

So its amazing that Edmonton got a trade done where they gain cap space and turn something that was maybe going to be gone for nothing into ...yes....a top prospect.

Althought Tulio was a good player by all accounts---I remember Kassian used to say he was a sure fire NHLer. That may end up being the rub.
 
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CantHaveTkachev said:
McLeod is a decent 3rd liner, maybe he can turn into a good center....but IMO these guys aren't that hard to find
he's an amazing skater but accomplishes little out there...other than going for a cardio skate
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You are underrating him a fair bit. He is a smart two way player who still has room to grow. He is a 2nd line LW or 3C type. He seems like does little because he is not physical and plays D first. He is player who can play with top six players in a complementary role because he isn't going to lose his defensive role but can join the rush

These guys can be easy to find but McLeod is not even in his prime and is cost controlled for years to come. Not every team out there can have the offseason the Oilers just did and can attract a quality depth veteran for cheap, or be like Florida and have a tax advantage. McLeod will have a lot of opportunity in Buffalo and will be a core player for them.
 
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Mr Positive said:
I dont know the specifics of that player but if our GM decided to just lose McLeod on waivers that would not have been acceptable. So you are claiming that Lidstrom was a solid depth player who was tossed away? I say that would be bad asset management

I'm guessing he was not as good as McLeod. That's the value of a draft pick who actually hits. A lot of them don't.

We've officially gone off the deep end in terms of overrating draft picks if you'd rather have a chance at a good player rather than a good player (all else being equal). McLeod was a 2nd rounder. He is of course worth more than that
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Oh so you’re saying that just making the NHL as a 2nd round pick doesn’t mean your value is better than a 2nd round pick and that there’s context involved?


The OP I was responding to stated that just making it as an NHL player as a 2nd round pick makes you more valuable than a future 2nd round pick.

That is of course, absolute non sense.
 
nbwingsfan said:
Oh so you’re saying that just making the NHL as a 2nd round pick doesn’t mean your value is better than a 2nd round pick and that there’s context involved?


The OP I was responding to stated that just making it as an NHL player as a 2nd round pick makes you more valuable than a future 2nd round pick.

That is of course, absolute non sense.
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Explain to me how it is nonsense.

The only way I see a 2nd rounder as worth more than McLeod is if you really have that lottery ticket mentality and want a draft steal. Maybe fans think that way but a GM?

You make 2nd round picks looking for guys like McLeod. That's the expectation, and you assume that most of them won't even be NHL regulars.
 
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Royal Thunder said:
Damn people really overvalue Savoie apparently. He’s a nice prospect but no one ever talked about him as some kind of cornerstone talent for the Sabres. His realistic projection is a complimentary middle 6 winger. Maybe he can reach a higher ceiling with 29 or 97 but he is far from a sure thing. If he was that good he would have made the team over Benson who is like 16 months younger and also outplayed Savoie when they played together in junior.

Savoie put up great numbers as an overager in junior but he never looked like a dominant force in the Mem Cup or World juniors (even before his injury). That said, Edmonton is a great fit because he doesn’t have to be the savior
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Savoie wasn’t an overager this season, it was just his draft +2 lol
 
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Skolman said:
This is a terrible post all around.

1. Savoie would have made the Sabres over Benson if he didn't get injured in camp.

2. As someone who lives just outside the Winnipeg area, Benson didn't outplay Savoie in the 22-23 season. If you're just stat watching though, sure Benson had 3 more points than him in the regular season. Where Savoie outscored him by a fair margin in the playoffs.

3. Savoie wasn't an overager this past season in the WHL.

4. You guys have really changed your opinion on Savoie after rhe trade. Oiler fans before this deal even happened wanted Edmonton to flip Mcleod. He really fell out of favor in Edmonton. The heavy majority of Sabres fans still loved Savoie, and saw him as a big part of the future.
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1. You just made that up lol Savoie was never a threat to make the Sabres this year

2. Everyone said Benson was better than Savoie during Benson’s draft year. More impactful on the game. Apparently you didn’t watch the games despite living so close! Funny to bring up stat watching because it’s the only way anyone could ever make an argument that Savoie is better than Benson. Benson is a far more direct and impactful player and that’s not even a conversation.

3. Ok fair enough, my point is he put up the numbers he should have being a D+2 in junior. That’s a good thing!

4. Savoie hasn’t been super hyped up by Sabres fans in a while. He was a bit of an enigma in that his play was never as dominant on the eye test as you would have liked, but the numbers suggested he could be a good top-6 skill player if he hit. Not saying he’s not a great prospect but to suggest that he was someone Sabres fans were super excited about and then suddenly changed their tune just isn’t true. The hype with him has been lukewarm but hopeful for about 18 months now, he never stood out in the big moments (World Juniors, Mem Cup) the way we hoped he would.
 
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Mr Positive said:
You are underrating him a fair bit. He is a smart two way player who still has room to grow. He is a 2nd line LW or 3C type. He seems like does little because he is not physical and plays D first. He is player who can play with top six players in a complementary role because he isn't going to lose his defensive role but can join the rush
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I think you're overrating him...again, serviceable 3rd liner but other than skate fast, there isn't an element that stands out...there's a reason he was healthy-scratched in the playoffs
Dylan Holloway can skate almost as well, has more offense and WAY more grit...
 
Honestly right now I could very much see Savoie making the team out of camp. Edmonton has the center strength to support him and there’s a top 9 RW spot wide open right now.
 
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tsujimoto74 said:
Absolutely no one has said that. He’s the very good defensive center we needed. A lot people seem to be struggling to grasp the difference, but when Sabres fans say we got “harder to play against,” we don’t mean “hits go brrrrr”.
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Yeah it’s been said many times. But go off. He’s a very good skater, who’s a better winger than center and wins faceoff at a 49% clip. He’s not some defensive wizard.
 
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ChaoticOrange said:
Honestly right now I could very much see Savoie making the team out of camp. Edmonton has the center strength to support him and there’s a top 9 RW spot wide open right now.
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If Kane is injured to start, I could see it. If not, I think it would be a tough crack - he'd have to show out in camp, which is a possibility,
 
Gabrielor said:
It was a fair trade.

Buffalo got what it wanted.

Edmonton fans got what they wanted.

The overreactions of fleecing either way are ridiculous. Erat for Forsberg is no comp, it's just a line to gain attention.
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Buffalo wanted a guy who can’t handle defensive center responsibilities so he often got moved to the wing?
 
Mr Positive said:
Explain to me how it is nonsense.

The only way I see a 2nd rounder as worth more than McLeod is if you really have that lottery ticket mentality and want a draft steal. Maybe fans think that way but a GM?

You make 2nd round picks looking for guys like McLeod. That's the expectation, and you assume that most of them won't even be NHL regulars.
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That’s not what you said.

You simply said that just because he “made it” as a 2nd round pick makes him more valuable than a 2nd round pick.

If someone has “made it” as an average 4th line/#6D and a former 2nd round pick, does that mean their value is higher than a 2nd?


That’s even ignoring the massive gap betwen a 9th overall and say 28-35th
 
sportsdynasty said:
McCloud is not a "very good defensive center". With Oilers, he couldn't play center well, so he was moved to wing. He's good on the PK and good at skating. It's future-oriented hopeful thinking to say he's a good defensive 3C, since McCloud has never been a good defensive 3C so far in his career.
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nabob said:
Yeah it’s been said many times. But go off. He’s a very good skater, who’s a better winger than center and wins faceoff at a 49% clip. He’s not some defensive wizard.
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Stats say otherwise.
 
Royal Thunder said:
1. You just made that up lol Savoie was never a threat to make the Sabres this year

2. Everyone said Benson was better than Savoie during Benson’s draft year. More impactful on the game. Apparently you didn’t watch the games despite living so close! Funny to bring up stat watching because it’s the only way anyone could ever make an argument that Savoie is better than Benson. Benson is a far more direct and impactful player and that’s not even a conversation.

3. Ok fair enough, my point is he put up the numbers he should have being a D+2 in junior. That’s a good thing!

4. Savoie hasn’t been super hyped up by Sabres fans in a while. He was a bit of an enigma in that his play was never as dominant on the eye test as you would have liked, but the numbers suggested he could be a good top-6 skill player if he hit. Not saying he’s not a great prospect but to suggest that he was someone Sabres fans were super excited about and then suddenly changed their tune just isn’t true. The hype with him has been lukewarm but hopeful for about 18 months now.
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Well apparently according to some of your Sabres reporters, he certainly would have made the team over Benson if he didn't get hurt.

How does one put up 71 points in 34 games in the WHL without any "elite traits"?

Why was he consistently ranked as your top prospect before the trade by the majority of Sabres fans, and then the minute he gets dealt you had 4-5 prospects better than him?

Not to mention the people who actually get paid to do this, had him ahead of the likes of Ostlund, Kulich, etc.
 
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