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Confirmed with Link: Buch traded to STL for Blais + 2nd (2022)

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KirkAlbuquerque said:
Well, one thing to the people who preach patience about young players and point to guys like Buch and Zib ... this is why you want your players to breakout at 21 and not 26. You get more years of prime production and more years of control.
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Few break out at 21.
 
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2014nyr said:
i don't understand the reaction to this. this was a good trade all things considered.

i'd have loved to have kept buch, but realistically, the kreider contract and his breakout effectively eliminated that possibility. not to mention we have tons of high skill young wingers...roster wise we needed to diversify. in hindsight i'm sure just about all of us would swap out kreider for buch but thats not an option now. although oddly enough i'm actually not sure mgmt would say the same.

everyone seems hung up on the statistical disparity which...yea, they're different players. but besides that, i think we need to be realistic about what the trade market for buch would have been. he's a very good all around player, not a star. in the right situation he might continue to emerge into one. but as of this offseason he's had one highly impressive season after several inconsistent ones, and going to command upwards of 6mm with term. theres only so many teams looking for a mid-tier top 6 rw with the cap space to make it work. the return was never going to be massive. we weren't getting a top 6 c, we weren't getting a higher end prime top 4 physical dman, we weren't pursuing futures only, and we certainly weren't looking to swap out one top 6 wing for another. be defaut the exchange was always going to be top 6 skill player for bottom 6 energy/physicality/attitude.

and this is where people are really missing out in assessing the trade...blais is awesome and plays a game we desperately need. i'm not sure how much people have seen of him but his numbers really don't reflect how solid / skilled a player he is. goodrow was a great add, but he's more a defensively responsible, effort forechecking, solid bottom 6 player. he finishes his hits, he'll mix it up when called for, but he's not typically a guy thats gonna raise the temperature. blais is that. he's much more active, very good skater, big kid, great pressuring the puck, levels people...he just brings energy, he'll cross the line. hes also got a cup ring. and i have a strong feeling he's going to thrive under gallant...he plays a game tailor made for a gallant team. this was a very good pickup for this team. and while he's not going to produce what buch does, i wouldn't be surprised at all to see him become a 35-45 pt guy bringing that energy and aggression. he's being criminally undervalued here because all people know about him are his stats. the garden will love him
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Blais might be a good 3rd line player. Awesome is pushing it quite a bit.

Buch is a good 2nd line player who may end up on a 1st line, on the PP and the PK.

The part I still don't understand is why they didn't wait until next season.

The Garden has loved lots of crappy players, so that means nothing.
 
Whenever this organization gives me hope they're not idiots, they do trades like these. If this is not part of a lateral move... I will be very, very... not amazed with the standard from the management that I have seen for decades. It's sad, really.
 
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chosen said:
Blais might be a good 3rd line player. Awesome is pushing it quite a bit.

Buch is a good 2nd line player who may end up on a 1st line, on the PP and the PK.

The part I still don't understand is why they didn't wait until next season.

The Garden has loved lots of crappy players, so that means nothing.
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i guess the way i think about it though is more - we don't have a blais now. those pieces are critical if you want to win anything - look at tampa pre roster reconfiguration. whereas a buch - yea he turned into a very nice player. i loved a lot about his game and the way he grew - but in a cap world with panarin, laf, krav, kakko, kreider, chytil, barron all potentially viable top 6 wings depending on how things shake out and all one or more of cheaper / better / locked in / higher ceiling ... he was going to be moved. keeping him for a season idno i wouldn't have gone down that road - playing a season knowing deadline or next offseason you're gone no matter what is not typically the best conditions for a player and potentially a locker room.

you can't look at this trade from a buch plays on a higher line, produces more, is more versatile so we got burned. because while buch became a very good and likable player, he's still not a guy you build a top 6 line around. like the market was not going to be that hot for a buch where you had to pay him - and most of it would be teams looking to pay exclusively in draft picks / guys years away which wasn't happening. if you look at this from a who's gonna score more points frame of mind its missing the point. its a bet by drury that we have just as good and potentially significantly better options as top 6 rw's. thats a gamble. but it puts them in those spots, and creates a bottom 6 spot to be filled with the type of player he wants there. the long run view of this trade will not be blais vs buch point totals. it'll be did kakko/krav or other kids emerge and create an elite top 6 - and did we add a guy who became a significant contributor to our bottom 6. this was a roster configuration trade, a bet on what we have behind buch and looking to add the kind of player we want to have in the lineup - whos value will be measured in a lot more than point totals.
 
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I'm hoping there's still a tiny bit more upside with Blais. He was pretty productive in the AHL and did a lot for the minutes he was allotted in St. Louis. Do I think he's going to even come close to Buchs production? No, but I can see him hitting 25-30 points while bringing it in all other aspects. I'd rather have him and the difference in cap hit going towards a position that needs filling
 
2014nyr said:
i guess the way i think about it though is more - we don't have a blais now. those pieces are critical if you want to win anything - look at tampa pre roster reconfiguration. whereas a buch - yea he turned into a very nice player. i loved a lot about his game and the way he grew - but in a cap world with panarin, laf, krav, kakko, kreider, chytil, barron all potentially viable top 6 wings depending on how things shake out and all one or more of cheaper / better / locked in / higher ceiling ... he was going to be moved. keeping him for a season idno i wouldn't have gone down that road - playing a season knowing deadline or next offseason you're gone no matter what is not typically the best conditions for a player and potentially a locker room.

you can't look at this trade from a buch plays on a higher line, produces more, is more versatile so we got burned. because while buch became a very good and likable player, he's still not a guy you build a top 6 line around. like the market was not going to be that hot for a buch where you had to pay him - and most of it would be teams looking to pay exclusively in draft picks / guys years away which wasn't happening. if you look at this from a who's gonna score more points frame of mind its missing the point. its a bet by drury that we have just as good and potentially significantly better options as top 6 rw's. thats a gamble. but it puts them in those spots, and creates a bottom 6 spot to be filled with the type of player he wants there. the long run view of this trade will not be blais vs buch point totals. it'll be did kakko/krav or other kids emerge and create an elite top 6 - and did we add a guy who became a significant contributor to our bottom 6. this was a roster configuration trade, a bet on what we have behind buch and looking to add the kind of player we want to have in the lineup - whos value will be measured in a lot more than point totals.
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I still don't understand why they didn't wait until next season unless it's your contention that the Rangers have a good chance of winning the Cup next season, which I doubt.

I also believe the Rangers would have brought in more next season for Buch. Unsure why you think otherwise.
 
chosen said:
I still don't understand why they didn't wait until next season unless it's your contention that the Rangers have a good chance of winning the Cup next season, which I doubt.

I also believe the Rangers would have brought in more next season for Buch. Unsure why you think otherwise.
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my opinion on that would be twofold - 1 it requires signing buch to a 1y dead man walking deal. whether its deadline or offseason, its the end of the road here. i just don't think thats the best thing for anyone. you have a guy playing all year wondering where and when his time will come. thats a tough spot to put a player - remember zucc's final year into the deadline? at best it only impacts him but you have to also consider what impact it might have in the locker room. even if there's no major drama its just uncomfortable.

2 - and i think the bigger reason for doing it now from mgmt perspective- the most outspoken drury has been on anything since taking over in what changes might be in order were taking the pieces we have and turning that into a complete roster - and the most sought after pieces for him to do that were physical, hard to play against bottom 6'ers. he wants defined roles, a complete roster assembled and my guess is see where we are with what he can bring in this summer / what jumps the kids make. he was not going into this season trying trying to find ice for kravtsov on a line with goodrow and brais. we weren't going into this season with a kid line in the bottom 6 with guys that couldn't support with matchup mins or be counted on for consistent production. in my eyes i don't see why we'd want 1 more year of buch. to me the hypothetical that makes more sense to consider is did we take the right approach on return. because we def coulda gotten like a 1st and 3rd type deal where there's some potential upside but its longer term. drury was obviously committed to getting a guy that can play today. i'm happy with the deal as is for what it does in the bigger picture. i know i'm in the minority there so will be interesting to see how things play out.
 
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I think they were going to clear cap space in lieu of getting Eichel, when that didn't happen they looked like buffoons. After the term he got with the Blues it looks even crappier. The not waiting a year is more concerning of GM who has no clue.
 
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I think they were going to clear cap space in lieu of getting Eichel, when that didn't happen they looked like buffoons. After the term he got with the Blues it was even a crappier. The not waiting a year is even more concerning.
 
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chosen said:
I still don't understand why they didn't wait until next season unless it's your contention that the Rangers have a good chance of winning the Cup next season, which I doubt.

I also believe the Rangers would have brought in more next season for Buch. Unsure why you think otherwise.
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Man, you've just seen multiple players on similar contracts with reasonable NHL caliber outputs get traded for literally nothing. The Vezina Trophy winner just got traded for literally nothing. Not Blais and a 2nd nothing. Literally - no return. Excepting whatever the Flyers are doing (god bless them and their propensity for having defenders that can't play defensive positions), this is the market and the likelihood of it getting better isn't strong.

The concept of Buchnevich taking a one year deal and getting dealt next TDL for more relies on a series of dominoes that are hilariously unrealistic. He's going to start his negotiations at a space of wanting multiple years and significant dollars - as he probably should (and got from the Blues). We say no. We got to arb. He can only take a one year deal. He could get awarded a number beyond our cap - then we've lost him for nothing or we've lost another player for having mismanaged the situation. He gets his one year deal at whatever the fair market rate is - 6m? Then what? You're going to trade him at the deadline in a year where we're supposed to be in the playoff mix? At a time where cap space is more valuable than actual players? Further down the cap crunch, after the free agency madness, at a time where 1st round picks will be increasing in value because of all that?

It's a fantasy. The return was underwhelming because the market is underwhelming.
 
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BPD said:
Man, you've just seen multiple players on similar contracts with reasonable NHL caliber outputs get traded for literally nothing. The Vezina Trophy winner just got traded for literally nothing. Not Blais and a 2nd nothing. Literally - no return. Excepting whatever the Flyers are doing (god bless them and their propensity for having defenders that can't play defensive positions), this is the market and the likelihood of it getting better isn't strong.

The concept of Buchnevich taking a one year deal and getting dealt next TDL for more relies on a series of dominoes that are hilariously unrealistic. He's going to start his negotiations at a space of wanting multiple years and significant dollars - as he probably should (and got from the Blues). We say no. We got to arb. He can only take a one year deal. He could get awarded a number beyond our cap - then we've lost him for nothing or we've lost another player for having mismanaged the situation. He gets his one year deal at whatever the fair market rate is - 6m? Then what? You're going to trade him at the deadline in a year where we're supposed to be in the playoff mix? At a time where cap space is more valuable than actual players? Further down the cap crunch, after the free agency madness, at a time where 1st round picks will be increasing in value because of all that?

It's a fantasy. The return was underwhelming because the market is underwhelming.
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Goalies usually return next to nothing, so I don't think that's a valid comparison..
 
The discussion about Strome and Tony's arbitration deals was in the same vein, and I thought it was bizarre back then with a different GM and much flakier players than Buchnevich.

Talented players, good ages, no long-term commitment. Dolan spends up to the ceiling every year even when we're rebuilding. Look at every free agency period. What is an NHL GM going to do with that ~cap space~, sign another Brendan Smith?
 
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