Proposal: Bruins Trade Proposals V

[LouJersey]

Eakin - Potentially.
Faksa - I wish.
Tierney - Sure.
Hayes - Is due a contract between 5-6 mil very very soon. Rental at best for this year.
Namestnikov - Definitely not the answer if we want a two way guy.
Kempe - Honestly don't know much on the guy.

The only game breakers I see, are Hayes and Faksa. Other than that we're just doing patchup work. None of those other guys should be relied on to provide the Rich Peverley secondary scoring we need from the bottom six.

The guy to get for me once they fall out is Filppula from the Isles. Wouldn't cost all that much and we could just let him walk end of the year.

 

[maxl7]

First off that list was just off the top of my head. I could come up with another 4-5 guys with more time. But for the sake of argument please tell me why Cody Eakin, Vlad Namestnikov and Chris Tierney aren’t good fits at 3C. If anything, they have already proven they are capable of playing that role and even plug into the top 6 in a pinch. Eakin was made in a factory to play 3C and was bonkers for Vegas last year. Tierney and Namestnikov seem tailor made as well. Why overpay for a top 6 guy and forcing him to play a role he is not used to?

Tierney is a guy you comfortably play at 4C and slide up to 3C if you absolutely have to. He had one good season of production but his actual output is not inspiring. Namestnikov is probably better suited for the third line but he's not a play driver and doesn't have the offensive instincts the Bruins need for a 3C role. Eakin is fine but makes too much for what he brings and even then is clearly in decline.

I'd rather the Bruins spend more assets to bring in legitimate top six help to push down Krejci to 3C (giving you have a true matchup advantage for this year as well as insurance for the future when he starts really declining) or someone who is more than just "meh" to play at 3C.

 

[Absurdity]

Heinen+? for Fischer+? Does any side need to add?

Cave, JFK, Frederic at #3C for now. Maybe add a 3rd liner at the deadline if it doesn't work out.

Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak
DeBrusk - Krejci - Fischer
Nordstrom - Cave/JFK/Frederic - Bjork
Wagner - Kuraly - Backes

 

[Son of Donegal]

over their respective careers, Schenn has gotten ~35% of his points on the powerplay while Krug has gotten ~44% of his points on the powerplay.

Like...if you're trying to argue that a guy is less valuable than Torey Krug I'm not sure making the case that the guy is too much of a powerplay specialist is the smart move. It's not like Krug's even strength production is where he makes his living.

First off, I am not arguing that Schenn is less valuable than Krug. I am actually arguing that the trade would be a wash at best and you are taking away from something proven to possibly plug a hole - with someone who is unproven in that role. Both players produce at the same rate - but Krug is a D. Also, while Schenn's PP scoring has been at 35% over his career, but over the past two years he was either riding right next to Tarasenko and Schwartz OR scoring at over 50% on the PP. I am trying to explain that plugging this guy into a 3C doesn't guarantee anything in terms of output. Also, the Bruins PP is top 5 already!

If we are looking for a 3C - someone who you can match-up against other teams top lines, who can draw penalties and chip in 40+ pts, why not go after that kind of player and keep out extremely productive defenseman? Krug scored 12pts in 11 games in the playoffs last year. Assuming Gryz would take his spot in a Krug for Schenn trade...he scored 1 pt all playoffs.

 

[maxl7]

over their respective careers, Schenn has gotten ~35% of his points on the powerplay while Krug has gotten ~44% of his points on the powerplay.

Like...if you're trying to argue that a guy is less valuable than Torey Krug I'm not sure making the case that the guy is too much of a powerplay specialist is the smart move. It's not like Krug's even strength production is where he makes his living.

The difference is that Krug drives play all on his own, while Schenn relies on others to do that for him. Even if Krug's 5-on-5 point totals aren't amazing, his adjusted shot metrics and underlying results are. I'm not just relying on raw production to evaluate a player and their impact, here.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Heinen+? for Fischer+? Does any side need to add?

Cave, JFK, Frederic at #3C for now. Maybe add a 3rd liner at the deadline if it doesn't work out.

Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak
DeBrusk - Krejci - Fischer
Nordstrom - Cave/JFK/Frederic - Bjork
Wagner - Kuraly - Backes

I don't really see the point in a Heinen for Fischer trade. Seems like a lateral move at best.

 

[Son of Donegal]

Tierney is a guy you comfortably play at 4C and slide up to 3C if you absolutely have to. He had one good season of production but his actual output is not inspiring. Namestnikov is probably better suited for the third line but he's not a play driver and doesn't have the offensive instincts the Bruins need for a 3C role. Eakin is fine but makes too much for what he brings and even then is clearly in decline.

I'd rather the Bruins spend more assets to bring in legitimate top six help to push down Krejci to 3C (giving you have a true matchup advantage for this year as well as insurance for the future when he starts really declining) or someone who is more than just "meh" to play at 3C.

Are we talking about the same guy? The Chris Tierney I am talking about is only 24 and has been steadily improving throughout his career. He WAS good last year and he is already trending to hit 60 pts this year despite starting 55% of his shifts in the D zone on one of the leagues worst teams. Tell me again why he wouldn't be a good fit as a pure 3C on this team?

Namestnikov's career is almost identical's to Rich Peverley's...the 3C we won the cup with. He plays the 3c role the way it should be played. If you don't like your 3C's the way I do, 40+ pts, drawing penalties, forcing turnovers, then maybe we can agree to disagree.

 

[maxl7]

Are we talking about the same guy? The Chris Tierney I am talking about is only 24 and has been steadily improving throughout his career. He WAS good last year and he is already trending to hit 60 pts this year despite starting 55% of his shifts in the D zone on one of the leagues worst teams. Tell me again why he wouldn't be a good fit as a pure 3C on this team?

Namestnikov's career is almost identical's to Rich Peverley's...the 3C we won the cup with. He plays the 3c role the way it should be played. If you don't like your 3C's the way I do, 40+ pts, drawing penalties, forcing turnovers, then maybe we can agree to disagree.

Tierney had an outlier year last year that was driven mostly be increased TOI and not increased scoring efficiency. This year he's actually producing at a top-six rate in terms of points/60 (unlike last year) but he continues to be a drag on shot volume and shot quality, even relative to his teammates. He leads the league in forwards with at least 300 minutes of ice time in secondary assists/60 this year, which is a huuuuuge reason to be skeptical. Secondary assists are not generally a repeatable skill and often when we see guys have one explosive year of production, that's the reason why. Only the elite of the elite can see consistent secondary assists, and even then those guys are still prone to a lot of variance.

I'll put it this way, I'm more confident that Tierney is the guy we saw for his first three or so years in San Jose than I am that he finally figured out how to be a top six forward the NHL at 24.

Namestnikov has similar reasons for skepticism, but he's better than Tierney. Namestnikov benefited nicely from playing with great players and has now understandably gone dry in NYR. The Bruins need someone who can carry their line to play 3C. If you can get him really cheap, then maybe he's worthwhile but he's not really gonna solve a whole lot of problems.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

First off, I am not arguing that Schenn is less valuable than Krug. I am actually arguing that the trade would be a wash at best and you are taking away from something proven to possibly plug a hole - with someone who is unproven in that role. Both players produce at the same rate - but Krug is a D. Also, while Schenn's PP scoring has been at 35% over his career, but over the past two years he was either riding right next to Tarasenko and Schwartz OR scoring at over 50% on the PP. I am trying to explain that plugging this guy into a 3C doesn't guarantee anything in terms of output. Also, the Bruins PP is top 5 already!

If we are looking for a 3C - someone who you can match-up against other teams top lines, who can draw penalties and chip in 40+ pts, why not go after that kind of player and keep out extremely productive defenseman? Krug scored 12pts in 11 games in the playoffs last year. Assuming Gryz would take his spot in a Krug for Schenn trade...he scored 1 pt all playoffs.

in a vacuum I agree that the trade is likely a wash, but in the context of the team's strengths and weaknesses it's arguably a net gain for the Bruins. They'd be trading from an area of extreme depth at LD to fill a hole at center. If the two players continue to produce like they have the last few years then it potentially makes the Bruins a much more balanced team as now you have a proven center in his prime that can play on the 3rd line, produce on the PP and play in the top 6 as needed. That helps with matchups, center depth, taking focus off Bergeron & Krejci, etc. Not to mention Schenn is a wrecking ball.

As for pointing out Krug's production in the playoffs, 7 of his 12 points were on the powerplay. I don't understand trying to argue that Schenn is a guy who relies too much on the powerplay for production and then pointing to Krug's over-reliance on the PP as if that's better.

anyway I'm not even necessarily advocating for this trade. I'd rather trade futures for Schenn and have both he AND Krug to go on a run, but I do think a case can be made that a 1 for 1 swap of the two players would make the Bruins better. I really disagree with the statement that Krug is "way more valuable" than Schenn and so far nobody has actually supported that argument effectively.

 

[Montecristo]

I don't really see the point in a Heinen for Fischer trade. Seems like a lateral move at best.

Fischer is a right shot. So a lateral move in which we move a left shot for a right shot makes sense for Boston given their lack of true right shot right wings

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Fischer is a right shot. So a lateral move in which we move a left shot for a right shot makes sense for Boston given their lack of true right shot right wings

At best..... Heinen has been more productive than Fischer has been thus far in their careers. I'd prefer to just keep the better player.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

The difference is that Krug drives play all on his own, while Schenn relies on others to do that for him. Even if Krug's 5-on-5 point totals aren't amazing, his adjusted shot metrics and underlying results are. I'm not just relying on raw production to evaluate a player and their impact, here.

Krug plays with arguably the best forward line in hockey on a regular basis. Let's not pretend like Schenn is carried by elite players but Krug does it all by himself.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Krug plays with arguably the best forward line in hockey on a regular basis. Let's not pretend like Schenn is carried by elite players but Krug does it all by himself.

on the PP only.

ES the Chara pairing is the one out there with Marchand-Bergeron-Pasta

Krug is most commonly out there with the Krejci line

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

on the PP only.

ES the Chara pairing is the one out there with Marchand-Bergeron-Pasta

Krug is most commonly out there with the Krejci line

and again...Krug produces half his points on the powerplay...with those guys.

still not seeing how that argument disqualifies Schenn's production but not Krug's.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Question for all the "Krug is going to get paid on his next contract" people:

What exactly is he going to get paid?

Just curious as to what you think it is going to be - 20 months away.

at the low end of comparables we see Justin Schultz and Tyson barrie signing for 5.5-5.75
moving up the list we see keith Yandle at 6.35 and kevin shattinkirk at 6.65

if the cap goes up as you expect... and considering this deal will be 2-3-4 years of inflation... I think its very possible his agent is going to be asking for 7+

of course the team could say that's insane and try to offer 5ish... but as an ufa there will be 30 other teams able to bid.

would krug take less for an 8 year insurance deal? would anyone be insane enough to offer a smallish 29 year old dman an 8 year contract?

im going to predict someone will go 6 years at least 6 mill per year and that's simply insane for us to consider

 

[maxl7]

Krug plays with arguably the best forward line in hockey on a regular basis. Let's not pretend like Schenn is carried by elite players but Krug does it all by himself.

Well, we can look through the player's history and see that he has a record of excellent underlying results regardless of his defense parter and the teammates he is deployed with. The same is not true of Brayden Schenn. It seems to me that you're starting from the position that Krug is not good because that's a popular HFBoards narrative and then jumping to conclusions.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Kovalchuk? Are you ****ing kidding?

Last night in the LA win over EDM, he played 6:20 for the entire game, and didn’t touch the ice in the 3rd period. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were trying to nudge him back to the KHL.

Not giving up anything to take on that deal.

hes also their leading scorer right?

bad bad bad situation in LA now... give them props for winning their cups but with their top players getting stuck at customs in procession of illegle drugs, and getting arrented and exhiled to Siberia for spouse abuse, not to mention several finishing their careers on the dl list for whole years at a time... I think the overall attitude on that team has to be absolutely miserable right now

heard it reported from the kings insider media guy that doughty is really unhappy now... and I think you can see that in his play to be honest. heard reports on the oiler broadcast last night that Phaneuf is miserable. kovalchuk was never a 'team leader' and was always a 'selfish player' who only made half efforts on defense and took super long shifts trying to cherry pick

not a surprise to me he isn't working out on that very bad LA situation. I wouldn't completely write him off though. making almost zero effort at all he was cruising along at nearly a point per game before he and the team had their breakup this past month.

I couldn't make the trade unless he was coming with a huge salary retention but someone is going to bite

 

[Mainehockey33]

Well, we can look through the player's history and see that he has a record of excellent underlying results regardless of his defense parter and the teammates he is deployed with. The same is not true of Brayden Schenn. It seems to me that you're starting from the position that Krug is not good because that's a popular HFBoards narrative and then jumping to conclusions.

No one is saying Krug isn’t good. We wouldn’t be arguing he’s worth a center that’s scored 59, 55, and 70 points in the last three years if we thought he wasn’t good. You’re trying to argue he’s worth more. What players do you think Krug is worth in a one for one trade?

 

[JEM28]

Jones and Werenski

That's a big loss on D for the Jackets, but agree that Pasta would have to return something massive.

Would ya do Pasta and Krug for Jones, Atkinson, plus?

Loss on the fwd, gain on the back end, imo. If Jackets add, depending on what they add, I might do it, since I think Krug will hit FA and go away.

 

[maxl7]

No one is saying Krug isn’t good. We wouldn’t be arguing he’s worth a center that’s scored 59, 55, and 70 points in the last three years if we thought he wasn’t good. You’re trying to argue he’s worth more. What players do you think Krug is worth in a one for one trade?

I don't know.

A one-for-one trade with Krug and Schenn is not equivalent value, though. If Schenn is the main piece, you absolutely need something else coming back, and not a throw-in like Gunnarson.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Heinen doesn't even have two full seasons to go off of, but we're already writing him off as a one year flash. Haha, HFboards Finest right here!!

he might not be a 1 year flash but if you had been around in the 1980s you might have seen guys like ken hodge jr and Dimitri kvaltalnov come through town {and let me tell you they were both more impressive than Heinen in their 1 year of flashing}

as I have argued many times here... guys come with a certain pedigree. its established in their draft amateur years. you see their basic potential

later the guys are able to develop and work hard to improve or at least reach their potential. a guy can go from being a 4th round pick with some flaws... to actually doing a decent job in the nhl… if they do work at it.

but... whatever that inheritent limit was likely remains. if the guy simply needed a late growth spurt... or was never properly scouted... then sure, he might become something very good with his improvements. but usually a guy drafted in the 4th round has a reason and that reason will usually follow him around in the coming years

Heinen is known to be a smart player... but hes a bit on the smaller side. when he isn't paying the price and getting into the traffic areas his overall skills are not elite. he will never be the fastest guy... the best shooter... the strongest checker in the corners.

when he works real hard and has a bit of luck and is in the right situation he can play... but if he takes his foot off the gas for even a second he quickly becomes invisible.

unfortunately human nature being what it is... you cant expect a guy to be giving 100% all the time. We have seen that this guy can be a pretty good 3rd liner when he is at his best. and weve seen he is a bit of a poor 3rd liner that plays on a line that gets outplayed when hes not at his utmost best.

if we got nothing better to put in his spot... and if his salary is cheap... hes a good guy to have around. but the second he gets his next contract or the second we find someone better... we simply must upgrade on this guy if we want to be good enough to win at playoff time

I think his trade value is sinking everyday and we should have moved him in the offseason like I was wanting. unfortunately his play this year is pretty much what I was warning about when I was talking about his limits last year. on the other hand... I do think he will turn things around and put up some points at some time this year. he is fighting for a contract after all. if a guy cant bust his butt and get some results when in a contract year he never will

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I don't know.

A one-for-one trade with Krug and Schenn is not equivalent value, though. If Schenn is the main piece, you absolutely need something else coming back, and not a throw-in like Gunnarson.

me thinks if you had schenn on your team you would need more than krug before you were willing to trade him. its ok… people are supposed to overvalue their own guys.

if you put up a poll on an independent forum though asking who adds... theres no chance in hell that krug gets you schenn 1 for 1

 

[maxl7]

me thinks if you had schenn on your team you would need more than krug before you were willing to trade him. its ok… people are supposed to overvalue their own guys.

if you put up a poll on an independent forum though asking who adds... theres no chance in hell that krug gets you schenn 1 for 1

It has nothing to do with overvaluing "my own guy". You're just slinging bullshit without having anything to back yourself up.

As I've repeatedly said, Schenn is a fine player and I wouldn't mind him on the Bruins but he's not someone who makes things happen on his own. Krug should net someone who can do that OR Schenn plus something else worthwhile like a nice prospect or another roster piece. But whatever. Just disagree and move on.

 

[maxl7]

No one is saying Krug isn’t good. We wouldn’t be arguing he’s worth a center that’s scored 59, 55, and 70 points in the last three years if we thought he wasn’t good. You’re trying to argue he’s worth more. What players do you think Krug is worth in a one for one trade?

The Wild and the Bruins wouldn't be good trading partners because Krug doesn't fill a need for them, but Mikael Granlund would be someone who is a similar age and contract status who more closely matches Krug's value. In fact, Granlund is probably better. Still, that's closer in terms of what Krug should net in a one-for-one deal.

 

[BruinDust]

That's a big loss on D for the Jackets, but agree that Pasta would have to return something massive.

Would ya do Pasta and Krug for Jones, Atkinson, plus?

Loss on the fwd, gain on the back end, imo. If Jackets add, depending on what they add, I might do it, since I think Krug will hit FA and go away.

My answer was tongue-in-cheek about Jones and Werenski.

To answer your question, no I wouldn't do Pasta/Krug for Jones/Atkinson. I'm not touching that Atkinson contract with a ten foot pole.