Prospect Info: Bruins Prospects Discussion

[Fonzerelli]

Barzal, Konecny and White were
all rated higher than ZS and all
three are better than ZS.

Rated higher by who? You? Bob and Doug Mackenzie? "Take off eh!" Not me. And my opinion means nothing. Not the Bruins. And their opinion is all that matters. And all Zac has done is score more goals than anyone else in the OHL from his draft class since his draft day, so he is proving the Bruins right. Not his fault folks like you are still wrong. Senyshyn and Sweeney can't be held accountable for your faulty list. That's your cross to bare

 

[Fonzerelli]

They are spelled:

Barzal
White
Konecny

They have some bearing on Senyshyn's success in Boston exactly how?

Barzal was an embarrassment during his short stint on the Island. Proving only that he struggled with the rules of the game as well as the size and strength of the pro game. He was promplty sent back to junior while other players drafted after him were kept around. If that's the bar you are setting for success, I'm pretty sure Zac can step over it without breaking a sweat.

 

[doakacola*]

They have some bearing on Senyshyn's success in Boston exactly how?

Barzal was an embarrassment during his short stint on the Island. Proving only that he struggled with the rules of the game as well as the size and strength of the pro game. He was promplty sent back to junior while other players drafted after him were kept around. If that's the bar you are setting for success, I'm pretty sure Zac can step over it without breaking a sweat.

Barzal beat out ZS two years in a row for Team Canada. Do a redraft
from 2015 and no GM is taking ZS
ahead of Barzal, none.

 

[Montecristo]

No. You said with regards to him getting picked for the team, obviously not a good sign he didn't

I'm just wondering why you would say that. I mean, what difference does it make? It makes no difference whatsoever to what kind of NHLer he turns into. Most NHlers didn't play World Junior and many who did play World Junior never made the NHL. So from a Bruins perspective, what difference does it make if he gets chosen to play in an international amateur tournament. It doesn't. So I'm wondering what you meant by obviously not a good sign he didn't

It's not obvious to me. Maybe spell it out for us

Okay, if he was a special talent, he would have made the team. He didn't make the team but was close, which means he's good, but not good enough to be a lock, something I feel he should be as a 19 year old former 1st round pick. The fact he was on the bubble means he is a top player for Canada u-20, but not a top 9 forward type player, again, something I feel like he should be. The fact he isn't is not a good sign that he'll live up to his draft position because (and I didn't look this up) I'd say most top 15 picks when eligible for wjc and are allowed to play at age 19 are likely locks and relied upon to be keys to Canada's success. When they don't make it, it's not a good sign. What's an example of a top 15 draft selection not making team Canada as a 19 year old and then went on to NHL success?

 

[DKH]

Step away from the ledge Dan. Things are never that bad that you have cheer for the Americans.

I'm bummed. Reading these posts that Senyshyn is not a that good got me a bit down

 

[doakacola*]

Okay, if he was a special talent, he would have made the team. He didn't make the team but was close, which means he's good, but not good enough to be a lock, something I feel he should be as a 19 year old former 1st round pick. The fact he was on the bubble means he is a top player for Canada u-20, but not a top 9 forward type player, again, something I feel like he should be. The fact he isn't is not a good sign that he'll live up to his draft position because (and I didn't look this up) I'd say most top 15 picks when eligible for wjc and are allowed to play at age 19 are likely locks and relied upon to be keys to Canada's success. When they don't make it, it's not a good sign. What's an example of a top 15 draft selection not making team Canada as a 19 year old and then went on to NHL success?

My issue isn't ZS but Sweeney's reach.

I agree with what you are saying about him at 19 or last year of eligiblity, especially when 4-5 other
forwards werent available to compete against him knocking him further down the list of candidates.
Like I said he would be barely a top 6 forward on a Canadian B WHC team.

 

[BBB24]

Barzal beat out ZS two years in a row for Team Canada. Do a redraft
from 2015 and no GM is taking ZS
ahead of Barzal, none.

You are so wrong, what would excite the other GMs maybe Barzal's two goal since his return to the WHL. If you are making your judge,net on who makes TC well I just don't know what to say. First off they play different positions and Brazal has made the team two years in a row means nothing John Slaney made the team two years in a row. I prefer ZS over Brazal every day, Brazal is a perimeter play making centre who does not like the rough stuff, let's wait til it counts, the NHL

 

[Fonzerelli]

The fact he isn't is not a good sign that he'll live up to his draft position because (and I didn't look this up) I'd say most top 15 picks when eligible for wjc and are allowed to play at age 19 are likely locks and relied upon to be keys to Canada's success. When they don't make it, it's not a good sign. What's an example of a top 15 draft selection not making team Canada as a 19 year old and then went on to NHL success?

Oh you mean succesful like Jamie Lundmark who was 9th overall pick of the New York Rangers in 1999. Played for Team Canada at 18 and 19 and was an impact player both years (6G, 6A). Went on to bust out in the NHL after 198 under-achieving games?

And I guess you also mean like Taylor Pyatt, who was taken #8 in the same draft as Lundmark. Pyatt was overlooked for every single Hockey Canada team. Never made U17 or U18. Even after being drafted 8th overall they passed him by not once but twice for U20. Of course he went on to enjoy an 859 NHL game career. What a bust!

I could keep listing if you like. Your faulty conclusions are based on faulty hunches. Making or not making Team Canada means absolutely nothing in a players NHL career.

 

[Fonzerelli]

I'm bummed. Reading these posts that Senyshyn is not a that good got me a bit down

Cheer for the Swiss then. They aren't as arrogant as the Americans and they make better cheese

 

[Montecristo]

Oh you mean succesful like Jamie Lundmark who was 9th overall pick of the New York Rangers in 1999. Played for Team Canada at 18 and 19 and was an impact player both years (6G, 6A). Went on to bust out in the NHL after 198 under-achieving games?

And I guess you also mean like Taylor Pyatt, who was taken #8 in the same draft as Lundmark. Pyatt was overlooked for every single Hockey Canada team. Never made U17 or U18. Even after being drafted 8th overall they passed him by not once but twice for U20. Of course he went on to enjoy an 859 NHL game career. hat a bust!

I could keep listing if you like. Your faulty conclusions are based on faulty hunches. Making or not making Team Canada means absolutely nothing.

Did you miss the part where I said I think he'll be an NHL player? I think he'll be a 10-15 goal a year 3rd liner. Been saying it for a while.but he's not this top 6 25-30 goal player to me the way he is to everyone else. So sure he may have a productive NHL career, I just don't see a difference maker. Maybe I'm wrong, but I might be right too. 3rd liner, maybe 4th. Not Chris Kreider or paccieoretty though.

 

[doakacola*]

You are so wrong, what would excite the other GMs maybe Barzal's two goal since his return to the WHL. If you are making your judge,net on who makes TC well I just don't know what to say. First off they play different positions and Brazal has made the team two years in a row means nothing John Slaney made the team two years in a row. I prefer ZS over Brazal every day, Brazal is a perimeter play making centre who does not like the rough stuff, let's wait til it counts, the NHL

1) Centers >>>>>>> Wingers

2) Was there a reach on D in the 1st round of Slaney's draft year that proves your point?

3) Two separate coaching staffs have now passed judgement on
ZS, with ZS having the additional benefit of not having McDavid, Marner, Konecny & Crouse take spots.

 

[Fonzerelli]

I dont pretend to be an NHL scout
or GM.

Believe me, that much is evident. Keep making lists though. You'll get better with practice

 

[Fonzerelli]

Did you miss the part where I said I think he'll be an NHL player? I think he'll be a 10-15 goal a year 3rd liner. Been saying it for a while.but he's not this top 6 25-30 goal player to me the way he is to everyone else. So sure he may have a productive NHL career, I just don't see a difference maker. Maybe I'm wrong, but I might be right too. 3rd liner, maybe 4th. Not Chris Kreider or paccieoretty though.

Nothing wrong with a career 3rd line NHLer. They don't grow on trees

 

[Montecristo]

Nothing wrong with a career 3rd line NHLer. They don't grow on trees

But it's not what you have in mind with a top 15 pick

 

[Oates2Neely]

If they hit on Senshyn then RW position will be locked & loaded with Pastrnak Backes Senshyn

 

[doakacola*]

Believe me, that much is evident. Keep making lists though. You'll get better with practice

So why dont you give me your NHL GM experience, ok?

Incidentally I stand by my opinion having seen ZS, White, Barzal & Konecny. ZS is the least impactful
of the four.

 

[Fonzerelli]

Two separate coaching staffs have now passed judgement on
ZS, with ZS having the additional benefit of not having McDavid, Marner, Konecny & Crouse take spots.

The Hockey Canada scouting staff is the same, led by Ryan Jankowski and there is continuity in their system from year to year through the Hockey Canada program of excellence starts at U17 and through to U20. If you are in the system your chances of staying in the system are better. Coaching staffs have some input in the team selection but Jankowski and his scouts speak the loudest.

Now that you mention it though, 13 different NHL scouting staffs passed on Barzal. Even the team that drafted him opted for Beauvillier - a forward drafted in the late first - INSTEAD of Barzal, even though they had room for a 1997 born center, he couldn't even win a 2 man race against Beavillier.

Shows pretty clearly that Sweeney knew something.

 

[Fonzerelli]

So why dont you give me your NHL GM experience, ok?

Incidentally I stand by my opinion having seen ZS, White, Barzal & Konecny. ZS is the least impactful
of the four.

Barzal by far worst of the 4

 

[doakacola*]

But it's not what you have in mind with a top 15 pick

Not just that, its the opprtunity cost
of what you passed up with other players.

 

[Fonzerelli]

But it's not what you have in mind with a top 15 pick

They still don't have that in mind. Nor should they. They still see Senyshyn, as many of us do, as a legitimate top 9 NHL winger. Making or not making Team Canada changes nothing.

 

[doakacola*]

Barzal by far worst of the 4

Yeah and two different Team Canada coaching staffs kept
him over ZS because of things
like superior puck handling and
hockey IQ.

ZS was cut from Bruins camp
fairly early while Barzal actually stuck.

 

[doakacola*]

If they hit on Senshyn then RW position will be locked & loaded with Pastrnak Backes Senshyn

By the time ZS is ready to realky make an impact, Backes will be
even further from his prime. He turns 33 in 2017 and will be 36-37
before ZS is an impact player.

 

[Gator Mike]

1) Centers >>>>>>> Wingers

Is that always the case?

I think with the DeBrusk and Senyshyn picks, the Bruins were looking for goal-scorers. Maybe they liked Barzal, but thought a smallish playmaking center wasn't as valuable to them as a big, fast, goal-scoring winger? And maybe they felt like the class of centers was pretty deep and that if they passed on a Barzal at #15, there would still be a reasonable chance of grabbing a kid like Forsbacka-Karlsson later on.

Basically, they entered that weekend looking for kids who they thought could put the puck in the net at the NHL level. I think they looked at Senyshyn and thought, "He's big, he's fast, he can score -- he's a new-look NHL winger. He's raw, so we might have to wait a while for the payoff, but the upside is pretty significant."

 

[doakacola*]

The Hockey Canada scouting staff is the same, led by Ryan Jankowski and there is continuity in their system from year to year through the Hockey Canada program of excellence starts at U17 and through to U20. If you are in the system your chances of staying in the system are better. Coaching staffs have some input in the team selection but Jankowski and his scouts speak the loudest.

Now that you mention it though, 13 different NHL scouting staffs passed on Barzal. Even the team that drafted him opted for Beauvillier - a forward drafted in the late first - INSTEAD of Barzal, even though they had room for a 1997 born center, he couldn't even win a 2 man race against Beavillier.

Shows pretty clearly that Sweeney knew something.

I said Coaching Staffs, not Scouting Staffs.

There is an enormous difference with a player moving 3-5 spots up or down and a player moving 20+.
Much more risk involved.

 

[Fonzerelli]

I said Coaching Staffs, not Scouting Staffs.

I know what you said. The coaching staff doesn't pick the team. The scouting staff does. It's been the same scouting staff on Hockey Canada this year as it was last year.