Value of: Brodie or Giordano

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If I were Calgary, my asking price for Giordano wouldn't be very high. He's only a couple of years from being a liability with that contract. Maybe even sooner.

 

[tmurfin]

If I were Calgary, my asking price for Giordano wouldn't be very high. He's only a couple of years from being a liability with that contract. Maybe even sooner.

Good thing you're not Calgary.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Good thing you're not Calgary.

We'll have to see how it turns out. If he had signed for 3 years I would've thought that was fine. 6 years? It's going to take him to 40. He's going to be a shell of his current self well before then. And that's not good news considering how bad he's been this year.

 

[Community]

Jvr just had a down year, Gardiner is a watered down Brodie, and we will lose either one of them or Carrick to expansion, it just makes no sense.

Some kind of 1 for 1 is the ONLY way a proposal could ever make sense.

And yeah, usually if there's six million proposals of the player from their own fan base, they're doing something wrong. Especially when they're the only veterans on a rookie team and they're still 25-28 years old.

That's what happens when you have the largest fanbase. In addition, JVR is in trade proposals because he is expendable as the 4th-5th best foward going forward (Matthews, Nylander, and Marner all expected to be better... Kadri is similar skilwise). Gardiner is available because everybody knows we need to improve our defense, but ideally we want somebody to play with Rielly, Gardiner, and Zaitsev in the top 4.

I don't understand how some posters complain the Leafs are offering spare parts when they put middling players in a proposal and then when they put good players, people complain that they must be bad since they're being offered. JVR hasn't been fantastic this year, but he's a 30/30 guy that is starting to gain chemistry with Marner. Gardiner has been great offensively (Showing some of his creativity and offensive prowess that we saw at the beginning of his career) and alright defensively (would improve if he had a consistent D-partner that wasn't Hunwick/Polak, but he's been alright regardless).


You throw in that rookie comment and it doesn't make sense either. Matthews, and Nylander have experience played against men (NHL, SHL, AHL, NLA, and world cup) whereas Marner dominated the OHL two years in a row. It's not like they have been average rookies so far, Nylander and Matthews are currently #1 and 2 in rookie scoring (both top 15 in NHL scoring) and most Leaf fans think Marner could easily have more points than either of them.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

We'll have to see how it turns out. If he had signed for 3 years I would've thought that was fine. 6 years? It's going to take him to 40. He's going to be a shell of his current self well before then. And that's not good news considering how bad he's been this year.

He's a literal gym rat and that alone will keep him going.

To the other guy, I'm not gonna get into the rookie/vet thing since you don't get it. And my final comment will be this; leafs fans sell him as a '30/30' guy. He has hit this total once. With Kessel. On a bad team that he was basically the second (third with Lupul I guess) best forward.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

What about Brodie and Chiasson for Klingberg and Honka? Brodie and Backlund for Ristolainen and Reinhart? I'd do those deals.

 

[Poochie_D]

I'd do Gio (and maybe a prospect) for Pacs and Emelin

Just because we really have no left wingers outside of Faudreau and Tkachuk, who I would like to be sent back.

Why would a team who is currently 1st in the NHL and looking to contend for a cup trade their captain? It doesn't make sense.

If Calgary remains outside of the playoff window come the trade deadline I think we'll see them sell off several veteran players.

 

[DJJones]

If I were Calgary, my asking price for Giordano wouldn't be very high. He's only a couple of years from being a liability with that contract. Maybe even sooner.

Even when he's 39 I have no doubt he will still be an effective PP QB and solid 2nd pairing anchor.

He's never been fast. Shot, passing, and positioning are the last things that go. Not to mention that he's a beast. Always the best conditioned guy at training camp.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Why would a team who is currently 1st in the NHL and looking to contend for a cup trade their captain? It doesn't make sense.

If Calgary remains outside of the playoff window come the trade deadline I think we'll see them sell off several veteran players.

It was an indirect reply to a habs fans proposal for Brodie

 

[WesMcCauley]

Wuhh? For a top pairing defender signed long-term. Having just turned 33 he still has at least 3-4 really good years in him.

His contract is brutal though... Already pretty old aswell

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He's a literal gym rat and that alone will keep him going.

Even when he's 39 I have no doubt he will still be an effective PP QB and solid 2nd pairing anchor.

He's never been fast. Shot, passing, and positioning are the last things that go. Not to mention that he's a beast. Always the best conditioned guy at training camp.

You do realize Chara is the only defenseman in the NHL that's 39 years or older, right? In fact, there are only 7 over the age of 35, and there are only 23 dmen in the league that are older than him! And you have 'no doubt' that Giordano, already the 24th oldest defenseman in the league, will be an anchor on a 2nd pairing and a PP quarterback in 6 years?!?!?

I've got some bad news for you - the fact that he was 'never fast' isn't really good news. He can (and will) get even slower. It won't matter how much of a gym rat he is - the only reason Chara can play at this age is because he can cover so much ice AND he was one of the best defenseman of his generation AND kept himself in tremendous condition. But an even slower Gio, with an ever increasing emphasis on speed in the league, will make for him to be a liability sooner rather than later. Heck, he already looks to be a step slower this year.

In 3 years, he'll be 36. So roughly the age of Martin, Liles, Hainsey, Seidenberg, Bieksa, Orpik, Beauchemin, and Campbell. Would you want to be stuck paying any of those guys 6.75M/year for the next 3 years? Take off the homer glasses!

I'm going on record in saying that unless they can find someone to dump him on, this contract becomes the enemy of the Flames in very short order. Potentially even as soon as next year.

 

[Kritty]

His contract is brutal though... Already pretty old aswell

People forget that despite being 33, he has only played 8 seasons of NHL hockey and not all of those were with the minutes he's played the last 3-4 He has all sorts of hockey left in him. 6 years @ $6.75 million for a top pairing dman is brutal? I hate to hear what you think of some truly brutal contracts that are out there. I guess Tyler Bozak's is a real gem of a contract.

 

[Kritty]

You do realize Chara is the only defenseman in the NHL that's 39 years or older, right? In fact, there are only 7 over the age of 35, and there are only 23 dmen in the league that are older than him! And you have 'no doubt' that Giordano, already the 24th oldest defenseman in the league, will be an anchor on a 2nd pairing and a PP quarterback in 6 years?!?!?

I've got some bad news for you - the fact that he was 'never fast' isn't really good news. He can (and will) get even slower. It won't matter how much of a gym rat he is - the only reason Chara can play at this age is because he can cover so much ice AND he was one of the best defenseman of his generation AND kept himself in tremendous condition. But an even slower Gio, with an ever increasing emphasis on speed in the league, will make for him to be a liability sooner rather than later. Heck, he already looks to be a step slower this year.

In 3 years, he'll be 36. So roughly the age of Martin, Liles, Hainsey, Seidenberg, Bieksa, Orpik, Beauchemin, and Campbell. Would you want to be stuck paying any of those guys 6.75M/year for the next 3 years? Take off the homer glasses!

I'm going on record in saying that unless they can find someone to dump him on, this contract becomes the enemy of the Flames in very short order. Potentially even as soon as next year.

You need to take off the glasses you're wearing. Giordano hasn't played anywhere near the taxing minutes that other 33 year old dmen has. He has played 3-4 seasons of big minutes, the rest were as a bottom pairing dman so to say he is old isn't an accurate statement. He has only played 8 NHL seasons and those cannot be ranked the same way as others would be. On top of that you're comparing him to dmen that are just not good players period.

As for your comment about players being slow, Chris Chelios was never fast, and got slower and slower as his career progressed and was still a very capable top 4 dman in to his late 30s.

Haha, as soon as next year. Love it. Someone please bookmark this one for later reference.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You need to take off the glasses you're wearing. Giordano hasn't played anywhere near the taxing minutes that other 33 year old dmen has. He has played 3-4 seasons of big minutes, the rest were as a bottom pairing dman so to say he is old isn't an accurate statement.

He is old. Age is based on how many years you lived. He's played hockey his whole career so I fail to see the whole "mileage" debate as at all relevant. You don't think he was playing his hardest his whole career?

He has only played 8 NHL seasons and those cannot be ranked the same way as others would be. On top of that you're comparing him to dmen that are just not good players period.

He's been playing in the NHL since 2006-2007 - that's 10 seasons (1 in Russia during contract dispute). Its not like his development path was all that different than most dmen - he played 2 full years in the AHL and then was in the NHL by the time he was 23, which is fairly standard for most defenseman.

As for your comment about players being slow, Chris Chelios was never fast, and got slower and slower as his career progressed and was still a very capable top 4 dman in to his late 30s.

Haha, as soon as next year. Love it. Someone please bookmark this one for later reference.

You can try to fabricate any and all reasons why you think Giordano will be some exception to the rule that most defenseman don't play past 35 (or at least don't play well). I mean, you are attempting to compare him to a 3 time norris winner and arguably the best American defenseman of all time.

Since 94-95 - here is the list of seasons by dmen over the age of 38 who have played more than 1500 minutes in a season


Look at the names on that list. Bourque, MacInnis, Lidstrom, Stevens, Coffey, Chelios, Chara, Blake, Murphy. You really think Giordano would be capable of popping up on the list twice? Of that group, only Lidstrom, Bourque, Blake, Chelios, and MacInnis showed up more than once.

Believe me when I tell you, Giordano does not belong in that group.

 

[DJJones]

Of course mileage matters, so does conditioning and medical science. Gio's had some freak accidents but none of them were bad permanent ones. I'd bet money at 33 only Chelios would be in as good of shape as Giordano is right now.

The fact that Chara is still playing while having no knee's is proof that things are improving. I'm sure when Gio is 39, he will only play 65-70 games to save him for a playoff push.

Boyle, Chara, Streit, Markov, Zidlicky, Mitchell. They all looked fine last year. Chara's the only one who was ever better than Gio and none of them have had half of as easy of a career.

Even if he's an PP specialist #4 for one or two years at the end. Not a big deal.

 

[Rockmorton]

Treliving's insistence that all contract's $ figure must come under Gio's says a lot about where he slots into the organization.

Now...things can change. If they do, the only type of trade that makes sense is a 1 for 1 swap that addresses the team's 1RW problem. RHS, under 28, pure sniper type. If someone were to dangle that in front of BT, I could see a conversation occurring.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Okay, all **** aside, if Gio retires, we don't get strapped for anything.

 

[DJJones]

Treliving's insistence that all contract's $ figure must come under Gio's says a lot about where he slots into the organization.

Now...things can change. If they do, the only type of trade that makes sense is a 1 for 1 swap that addresses the team's 1RW problem. RHS, under 28, pure sniper type. If someone were to dangle that in front of BT, I could see a conversation occurring.

What good is having a sniper if we only have 2 top 4 defense.

If Kulak and Andersson both take off next year then sure I'd think about it. Until then I don't see what could be worth trading him.

 

[Rockmorton]

What good is having a sniper if we only have 2 top 4 defense.

If Kulak and Andersson both take off next year then sure I'd think about it. Until then I don't see what could be worth trading him.

I'm definitely not advocating trading him. It certainly creates another hole. If they solidify the top line, they could address the top 4 D issue through trade or free agency in the summer.

 

[DJJones]

I'm definitely not advocating trading him. It certainly creates another hole. If they solidify the top line, they could address the top 4 D issue through trade or free agency in the summer.

All you need is cap space to get a top line RW.

Top 4 defense not so much