Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

[vadim sharifijanov]

i’ve stayed out of the pettersson injury truther discussions, but last night in the third when he whiffed on that shot from the right circle, he seized for a good two seconds before he was able to move again. i’m not a doctor but it really looked like something was physically wrong with him, though i have no idea what.

anyone else notice this?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

i’ve stayed out of the pettersson injury truther discussions, but last night in the third when he whiffed on that shot from the right circle, he seized for a good two seconds before he was able to move again. i’m not a doctor but it really looked like something was physically wrong with him, though i have no idea what.

anyone else notice this?

Not a doctor, just a player who taught himself how to skate - and poorly and honestly plays kind of recklessly. Call me a professional idiot. Let me get my tinfoil hat.

I don't think it's just one thing with him. He has no shot and no speed. There's only two ways that can really happen. But I don't think his shot or speed is what makes him a special player. His ability to use his teammates was why I thought we should play him at center in the first place. Everything else were just cherries.

He's much younger than me and probably has better people to look at it faster.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Not a doctor, just a player who taught himself how to skate - and poorly and honestly plays kind of recklessly. Call me a professional idiot. Let me get my tinfoil hat.

I don't think it's just one thing with him. He has no shot and no speed. There's only two ways that can really happen. But I don't think his shot or speed is what makes him a special player. His ability to use his teammates was why I thought we should play him at center in the first place. Everything else were just cherries.

He's much younger than me and probably has better people to look at it faster.

His shot was lethal when he first broke into the league though. And his one-timer was a legit weapon too. I definitely recall him having a A-level shot before all the wrist and other injuries.

As for speed, it is true that wasn't his calling card, but unless you are a very strong player and a puck-protection monster like Draisatal or Rantanen, you do need a certain baseline level of speed in order to get the separation needed to make passes or take shots. Petey doesn't need to skate like McDavid, but he does need to skate a lot better than he is currently to be successful.

 

[sting101]

It's obvious he's been affected negatively by injury so today is a new day and so on until he shows otherwise.

Fact is he's been lost for over a year and even then we were all hoping that the just turned 25yr old would put on strength and take his game to another level to meet the contract that was coming.

At 27 near the start of next season it's hard to imagine much improved strength. He's simply missed a window to add a lot of muscle 18-25 and with his right knee issues it's incredibly doubtful you could do the kind of loading and explosive training that will help him build a thicker more powerful trunk base in a short off season.

I've seen a lot of players careers go into the tank with injuries and never come out the same. Hockey is a brutal physical grind if you lose the quickness and agility to dodge a lot of the hits or not have the frame to withstand the punishment or simply just can't recover fully. The cumulative effects plus aging can be cruel, staying on an upward trajectory is difficult requires some luck, incredible work ethic and dedication

I realistically see a world where Pettersson comes back next year and bounces back somewhat but i also have a hard time believing that he will ever be as explosive as the player insulated by youth good health and lesser expectations.

The hope is he's gonna get over the tendinitis and whatever other ailments he's playing through. Then physically he's gonna be able to add muscle power and get faster. Then if if he's so lucky physically he will mature as an individual and improve his responsibility as a leader to the media and more importantly his coaches and teammates.
Then after all those dominoes fall you dream that he stays healthy when the odds are stacked against him and every team is targeting him knowing how poorly he's dealt with it all to date. And on top of all of that you hope and dream he finds the mental toughness work ethic and dedication to keep improving

Hopes and dreams

 

[Bobby9]

Thoughts?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I don't think it's just one thing with him.

I think this is the important thing. Someone else raised this point waaaaay back in this thread (or another one, I can't recall) and this is probably accurate just given the nature of being a pro hockey skatey-shooty guy.

I don't think there's an overarching debilitating medical condition or that Canucks medical staff are bordering on malpractice levels of incompetence.

I do think that he's probably been banged up here and there which hasn't helped, and that the larger issue is mental/attitude/testicular fortitude/whatever term you wanna use.

There was an article in the Province the other day where it seems like even the media are starting to tire of EP.

 

[AzNightmare]

Thoughts?

Either he's done as an elite player or medical staff/management should be done running this team.

Something doesn't add up, but it's one or the other.

 

[Hodgy]

Thoughts?

Say what you want about Dhaliwal, he definitely has sources, and it would be quite surprising that he would be so definitive on this but also be wrong.

Curious how @Bleach Clean views this as that poster has typically put a lot of weight into Dhaliwal's comments.

 

[arttk]

I think this is the important thing. Someone else raised this point waaaaay back in this thread (or another one, I can't recall) and this is probably accurate just given the nature of being a pro hockey skatey-shooty guy.

I don't think there's an overarching debilitating medical condition or that Canucks medical staff are bordering on malpractice levels of incompetence.

I do think that he's probably been banged up here and there which hasn't helped, and that the larger issue is mental/attitude/testicular fortitude/whatever term you wanna use.

There was an article in the Province the other day where it seems like even the media are starting to tire of EP.

well, the last time we saw him really load up and shoot he ended up missing like 3 games afterwards.

the lack of transparency really doesn't help. I really don't think that confidence is affecting his ability to shoot but more so, his injuries or the fact he might actually get injured right away is the more probable reason.

 

[Caboose]

Maybe the NHL is behind in this, but tendonitis and tendinopathies in the heel and knee are MAJOR issues in the NBA and protocol has been changed where rest is no longer the norm.

If you have the desire (which I suspect Petey does not) you need to push through the discomfort and strengthen the supporting muscles in the area and while doing this also work through the scar tissue which weakens the tendons.

Seeing so many star players play through extreme pain and still contribute and then seeing Pettersson become so borderline replacement level offensively due to a tendonitis issue lasting over a year has really jaded me.

Makes me wonder if he has what it takes to push through a moderately painful recovery regimen to come back stronger than before OR the Canucks training staff basically went with general best practice for seniors which says do what you can within your comfort. Then Petey from the quotes sounds like any minor discomfort caused him to stop his training.


Either way, I'm so over Pettersson right now and how he is basically single handedly tanking the two best seasons a player has ever had as a Canuck (Hughes) preventing them from competing as they should if he played to %75 of expectations. (We are at minimum playing in the finals last year with Datsyukian Petey)

 

[I am toxic]

Thoughts?

Honestly I was expecting to hear this week that Petey steals candy from babies and doesn't give up his seat on the skytrain for grannies

Am a little disappointed the character assassination campaign has circled back to the already proven false "he's not injured" tactic to distract from management and coaching staff mistreatment of this injury, was hoping for something new

I can't decide which is more monumentally incompetent, the Canucks propaganda department or their "medical" staff

Oh, who am I kidding, the propaganda we can ignore, but nothing* will make the wrecked knee go away

*other than surgery and about 12 months rehab

 

[Bleach Clean]

Say what you want about Dhaliwal, he definitely has sources, and it would be quite surprising that he would be so definitive on this but also be wrong.

Curious how @Bleach Clean views this as that poster has typically put a lot of weight into Dhaliwal's comments.

No, Dhaliwal is a legitimate source, but not one wholly relied upon.

That you are now citing Dhaliwal as a legitimate source when you have denied that legitimacy before is in part why your posts are seen as disingenuous.

I respect Dhaliwal is being told that Pettersson is not injured. Pettersson has disagreed (in the past) and his play hasn't markedly changed since said disagreement.

 

[Hodgy]

No, Dhaliwal is a legitimate source, but not one wholly relied upon.

That you are now citing Dhaliwal as a legitimate source when you have denied that legitimacy before is in part why your posts are seen as disingenuous.

First off, I didn't cite Dhaliwall, a different poster did. Second off, I have never denied the "legitimacy" of Dhaliwal, but in some cases I have given more weight to primary sources over his rumours as is the custom in acceptance evidence law. There is nothing disingenuous about that.

I respect Dhaliwal is being told that Pettersson is not injured. Pettersson has disagreed (in the past) and his play hasn't markedly changed since said disagreement.

But when Pettersson disagreed (presumably, you are referring to last year when he confirmed he had an injury) was Dhaliwal emphatically confirmed that he did NOT have an injury? He may, of course, still have an injury, but it would be weird for someone as connected as Dhaliwal to be some certain and yet so wrong.

 

[PRNuck]

i’ve stayed out of the pettersson injury truther discussions, but last night in the third when he whiffed on that shot from the right circle, he seized for a good two seconds before he was able to move again. i’m not a doctor but it really looked like something was physically wrong with him, though i have no idea what.

anyone else notice this?

I'm not a doctor but I watched several seasons of the Mentalist and I feel qualified to say that's the telltale sign of a classic Swedish Introvert.

 

[arttk]

I'm not a doctor but I watched several seasons of the Mentalist and I feel qualified to say that's the telltale sign of a classic Swedish Introvert.

i lived in Scandinavia and i can say that to north americans, all Scandinavians would seem to be introverts. It's just a freaking different culture.

 

[Canucker]

The team says he isn't injured, EP himself hasn't given any indications that he is injured, the media reporting he isn't injured, he was fine to play in the 3 Nations, he's been fine to play in his regular games...the only people who still think he is injured are the ones who seem to want to make excuses for his play...despite the fact nobody else, including EP himself seems to want to use that low hanging piece of fruit as an excuse for his poor play.

Although, I will say I have liked his game better the last 2 games and I think we'll see some improvement in his production...but I'm not sure we'll ever get the $11.6m performer that he's being paid to be.

 

[nowhereman]

I think this is the important thing. Someone else raised this point waaaaay back in this thread (or another one, I can't recall) and this is probably accurate just given the nature of being a pro hockey skatey-shooty guy.

I don't think there's an overarching debilitating medical condition or that Canucks medical staff are bordering on malpractice levels of incompetence.

I do think that he's probably been banged up here and there which hasn't helped, and that the larger issue is mental/attitude/testicular fortitude/whatever term you wanna use.

There was an article in the Province the other day where it seems like even the media are starting to tire of EP.

Either he's done as an elite player or medical staff/management should be done running this team.

Something doesn't add up, but it's one or the other.

No matter how much shade is constantly thrown at the Canucks medical team, even when they've turned over their staff under multiple management regimes, I refuse to believe it is just a parade of incompetent fools. Medicine is complex and frequently nebulous, with mistakes being made all of the time, but I don't think the Canucks specifically have some sort of pipeline to all of the worst medical professionals in the industry. Not to mention, these millionaire athletes have access to the world's top specialists and they likely wouldn't hesitate to get a second or third opinion, if needed.

It just seems like a leap to me to assume that absolutely everyone in the organization has collectively messed up and poor Petey is caught in the middle, with no agency to contribute to the situation.

From what I've seen over the course of his career, Pettersson seems to shut down when he's injured and lets it affect his game far more than most. Many in this thread have deified athletes as all being cut from the same tough-as-nails cloth but that's simply not true. If Pettersson does bounce back, I'm still wary that the next bump or bruise will see us right back where we are right now.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I'm not a doctor but I watched several seasons of the Mentalist and I feel qualified to say that's the telltale sign of a classic Swedish Introvert.

i lived in Scandinavia and i can say that to north americans, all Scandinavians would seem to be introverts. It's just a freaking different culture.

basing my analysis of the petey situation on ingmar bergman films...

 

[racerjoe]

Say what you want about Dhaliwal, he definitely has sources, and it would be quite surprising that he would be so definitive on this but also be wrong.

Curious how @Bleach Clean views this as that poster has typically put a lot of weight into Dhaliwal's comments.

I mean its a pretty dumb quote if its right or wrong... I don't have to point far to prove its wrong. I guess Hughes won't play tonight than eh?

Again I don't think Pettersson is currently seriously injured. I do think his past injury does effect him though and I also feel it has hurt his confidence. There is probably more than one thing effecting it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

First off, I didn't cite Dhaliwall, a different poster did. Second off, I have never denied the "legitimacy" of Dhaliwal, but in some cases I have given more weight to primary sources over his rumours as is the custom in acceptance evidence law. There is nothing disingenuous about that.

But when Pettersson disagreed (presumably, you are referring to last year when he confirmed he had an injury) was Dhaliwal emphatically confirmed that he did NOT have an injury? He may, of course, still have an injury, but it would be weird for someone as connected as Dhaliwal to be some certain and yet so wrong.

You should just stop at "he may, of course, still have an injury". Dhaliwal doesn't change anything on that front by himself.

It's disingenuous to be biased toward Dhaliwal's information now when you dismissed him before as a rumour peddler. Same with Friedman. And then on top of that dismiss a primary source in Pettersson using his own words to refute the statement. You know this already.

I am glad that you are now running with rumours as legitimate information though. This is a good thing.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The team says he isn't injured, EP himself hasn't given any indications that he is injured, the media reporting he isn't injured, he was fine to play in the 3 Nations, he's been fine to play in his regular games...the only people who still think he is injured are the ones who seem to want to make excuses for his play...despite the fact nobody else, including EP himself seems to want to use that low hanging piece of fruit as an excuse for his poor play.

Although, I will say I have liked his game better the last 2 games and I think we'll see some improvement in his production...but I'm not sure we'll ever get the $11.6m performer that he's being paid to be.

Except, EP did use that exact reason for his poor play last year? His poor play hasn't changed since.

The probable injury is a reason, not an excuse. The only ones framing it as an excuse are the ones that can't accept it as a possibility. Only one side is closing off that range... Without sufficient information to do so.

 

[rypper]

Thoughts?

Well Rick how many back to backs has Quinn played with his bionic hand?

And he's playing again tonight, back to back.

 

[cc]

Even without an injury, a player significantly falling short of their offseason training is enough to derail a season for them. Especially for a player who's not naturally athletic to begin with.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

the lack of transparency really doesn't help. I really don't think that confidence is affecting his ability to shoot but more so, his injuries or the fact he might actually get injured right away is the more probable reason.

I'm not necessarily saying it is confidence/depression, although I was leaning that way. Honestly, it has gone on for so long and nothing has really been done to address it that it could be a variety of factors. Maybe it is work ethic/attitude. Maybe it is depression/confidence.

No matter how much shade is constantly thrown at the Canucks medical team, even when they've turned over their staff under multiple management regimes, I refuse to believe it is just a parade of incompetent fools. Medicine is complex and frequently nebulous, with mistakes being made all of the time, but I don't think the Canucks specifically have some sort of pipeline to all of the worst medical professionals in the industry. Not to mention, these millionaire athletes have access to the world's top specialists and they likely wouldn't hesitate to get a second or third opinion, if needed.

It just seems like a leap to me to assume that absolutely everyone in the organization has collectively messed up and poor Petey is caught in the middle, with no agency to contribute to the situation.

From what I've seen over the course of his career, Pettersson seems to shut down when he's injured and lets it affect his game far more than most. Many in this thread have deified athletes as all being cut from the same tough-as-nails cloth but that's simply not true. If Pettersson does bounce back, I'm still wary that the next bump or bruise will see us right back where we are right now.

Yeah, I'm super skeptical of EP having this long-running injury that is just bad enough that it is impacting his play but is not serious enough to warrant being put on IR or even just taking a couple of maintenance days.

I can believe injuries being a contributing factor, but not the sole cause.

 

[arttk]

I'm not necessarily saying it is confidence/depression, although I was leaning that way. Honestly, it has gone on for so long and nothing has really been done to address it that it could be a variety of factors. Maybe it is work ethic/attitude. Maybe it is depression/confidence.



Yeah, I'm super skeptical of EP having this long-running injury that is just bad enough that it is impacting his play but is not serious enough to warrant being put on IR or even just taking a couple of maintenance days.

I can believe injuries being a contributing factor, but not the sole cause.

I mean we know that NHL players do not gain muscle throughout the season because it’s basically a cardio marathon. We hear all the time from NHL players that they workout like crazy in the offseason to prepare for the loss in strength that you get as part of the NHL grind.

If the root cause is lack of strength due to injury derailing his offseason training, then it’s super unrealistic to expect him to improve on it. There is just not enough downtime to do strength training to a degree that he actually gains strength. He would need to sit out for like 2 months.