Bring Back Amateurs to Olympic Hockey

[Jazz]

Obviously. If you stop participating in the Olympics that makes the World Cup a bigger deal since it will be the only tournament with the elite players. If you participate in both... obviously one is going to be viewed as better than the other.

Take the World Cup, increase IIHF participation in the operation of the tournament and make it into a better world tournament.

News Flash: It hasn't been "only" Canada's game for a while... NHL participation in the Olympics has had NOTHING to do with that development.

It will take decades for the World Cup to build itself up to reach even a tenth of the global reach the Olympics does. Why take a step backwards when you have something already here that works (and only needs to be tweaked in terms of scheduling)?

Don't get me wrong, I prefer small ice hockey, but the World Cup has no credibility outside the 3 countries I mentioned above (Canada, Sweden, and Finland). It has not been held on regular intervals, and it always in one country. While I prefer both tournmanents (more hockey!), the NHLPA leary of overexposure of the international game, so if I had to make a choice, the Olympics serves hockey better.

I equate those who think that the World Cup should be the premiere elite event with those who do not care about hockey's growth outside it's established countries. It is cleary a step in the wrong direction.

 

[bandolero]

Obviously. If you stop participating in the Olympics that makes the World Cup a bigger deal since it will be the only tournament with the elite players. If you participate in both... obviously one is going to be viewed as better than the other.

I don't think that the World Cup will ever gain the respect what the Olympics have, in Europe. Not even if NHLer wouldn't participate to olympics. I'm sure that World Cup would be a big tournament also for european palyers but majority of european spectators would still prefer even World Champions over World Cup.

Hockey just doesn't belong to summer.

 

[letterH]

I dont give a **** what the Olympic s want or the NHL , Canada shouls send Non NHLERS in the future.

They will represent our flag with pride - win or lose

You think they could have gotten 7th ( like this years team of floaters)????

Did you have this same issues four years ago when you and the rest of Canada celebrated a gold medal? Funny how the amatuer issue only comes up after we lose, but not after winning a gold.

 

[Jester]

It will take decades for the World Cup to build itself up to reach even a tenth of the global reach the Olympics does. Why take a step backwards when you have something already here that works (and only needs to be tweaked in terms of scheduling)?

Don't get me wrong, I prefer small ice hockey, but the World Cup has no credibility outside the 3 countries I mentioned above (Canada, Sweden, and Finland). It has not been held on regular intervals, and it always in one country. While I prefer both tournmanents (more hockey!), the NHLPA leary of overexposure of the international game, so if I had to make a choice, the Olympics serves hockey better.

I equate those who think that the World Cup should be the premiere elite event with those who do not care about hockey's growth outside it's established countries. It is cleary a step in the wrong direction.

someone posted the ratings for Olympic Hockey on here somewhere... maybe even in this thread... the Olympics are doing NOTHING special for the viewing of Hockey.

and that is EXACTLY my point. make the World Cup a consistent thing... well organized, moved around to different locations, etc. have it between the Winter Olympics... include more teams in the tournament, so on and so forth.

the Olympics do nothing special for Hockey... if Hockey can't exist internationally without NHL participation in the Olympics, then Hockey can't exist, and we all know that isn't true.

 

[Jussi]

someone posted the ratings for Olympic Hockey on here somewhere... maybe even in this thread... the Olympics are doing NOTHING special for the viewing of Hockey.

and that is EXACTLY my point. make the World Cup a consistent thing... well organized, moved around to different locations, etc. have it between the Winter Olympics... include more teams in the tournament, so on and so forth.

the Olympics do nothing special for Hockey... .

What a load of crap.

As for the ratings, we're talking US here. If I've understood correctly, NBC has shown hockey on their cable networks which have had huge ratings hikes. The reason for NBC's poor ratings are because they only show tape delayed events.

 

[Jazz]

someone posted the ratings for Olympic Hockey on here somewhere... maybe even in this thread... the Olympics are doing NOTHING special for the viewing of Hockey.

and that is EXACTLY my point. make the World Cup a consistent thing... well organized, moved around to different locations, etc. have it between the Winter Olympics... include more teams in the tournament, so on and so forth.

the Olympics do nothing special for Hockey... if Hockey can't exist internationally without NHL participation in the Olympics, then Hockey can't exist, and we all know that isn't true.

You just said that International hockey can exist without the NHL in the Olympics, and went on to talk about only American ratings....

(A) You obviously have not done your homework, and (B) you are obviously only concerned with American ratings (I'm not)

(A) But, let's talk about hockey in the US for a sec, in the '01/02 season (with the Salt Lake City games), ABC's highest NHL ratings were in the immediate weeks following the Olympics. The only reason they did not hold was because the NHL game was so boring back then (all the clutching and grabbing). The NHL game is more exciting now, and if the new NHL rules hold, they will be just as exciting after the 2010 Vancouver games, so that will help with the holding the ratings spike following both these and the Vancouver Olympics.

(B) I'm not only talking about ratings in North America. Hockey is not only North America. I am not saying the International hockey cannot exist without NHL participation. I'm saying that Olympic participation brings in more fans around the world (not just America), as they are exposed to a game during the Olympics that they would not otherwise be able to see.

 

[MOGiLNY]

If you bring back amateurs to Olympic hockey, who the hell is going to represent European countries? 15 year old boys who didn't sign a pro contract with their teams yet?

Now that would be some good, exciting hockey.

 

[Jester]

What a load of crap.

As for the ratings, we're talking US here. If I've understood correctly, NBC has shown hockey on their cable networks which have had huge ratings hikes. The reason for NBC's poor ratings are because they only show tape delayed events.

actually NO... the ratings i was referring to were the European ratings for the Olympic Hockey games. i haven't seen the ratings for the US (though, they will obviously be bad given the times that the games are shown here).

(A) But, let's talk about hockey in the US for a sec, in the '01/02 season (with the Salt Lake City games), ABC's highest NHL ratings were in the immediate weeks following the Olympics. The only reason they did not hold was because the NHL game was so boring back then (all the clutching and grabbing). The NHL game is more exciting now, and if the new NHL rules hold, they will be just as exciting after the 2010 Vancouver games, so that will help with the holding the ratings spike following both these and the Vancouver Olympics.

interesting theory. PROVE it. the numbers are nothing special on TV this year, and the NHL is seeing a nice boost due to the novelty of there having not been hockey for a year... the heart grows fonder for what it lacks. hockey is hockey... people watch their national teams (which has no relation to the NHL obviously) get a little interested, but then go back to whatever they were doing before...

 

[Jussi]

actually NO... the ratings i was referring to were the European ratings for the Olympic Hockey games. i haven't seen the ratings for the US (though, they will obviously be bad given the times that the games are shown here).

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I don't know about other countries but Finland's games are getting huge ratings (as usual) in Finland.

 

[Jester]

Yeah, you're more right than I've ever expected, I found the numbers of the two German tv stations ARD & ZDF (in million):

Source: http://www.quotenmeter.de/

ITA-CAN 2,01
SWE-KAZ 3,58
GER-CZE 3,57
RUS-SVK 2,55

SWE-RUS: 2,77
CAN-GER: 2,32

ITA-GER 4,89
CAN-SUI 3,13

RUS-LAT 2,58
USA-SWE 2,04
CZE-ITA 1,68
FIN-CAN 1,25

GER-FIN: 2,78
USA-RUS: 2,13

SUI-SWE 1,61
FIN-USA 1,5
RUS-CAN 1,86

Note: Missing are the ORF (Austria) and DRS2 (Switzerland) for south Germans like me and Eurosport (German language area), who showed hockey, too. I've no clue what their numbers look like

For the tv-coverage respective ARD and ZDF you need to say that the barely showed hockey live (even the German matches), instead they showed a third and then hockey roundups(?), all too often after 9 or 10 p.m .

german ratings was what was posted.

 

[Jester]

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I don't know about other countries but Finland's games are getting huge ratings (as usual) in Finland.

I'm sure... but the issue isn't a nation watching it's own games. Lotta people watch Team USA's games... just not the others.

 

[Jazz]

....interesting theory. PROVE it. the numbers are nothing special on TV this year, and the NHL is seeing a nice boost due to the novelty of there having not been hockey for a year... the heart grows fonder for what it lacks. hockey is hockey... people watch their national teams (which has no relation to the NHL obviously) get a little interested, but then go back to whatever they were doing before...

There were independent 2 articles I succintly remember a couple of months after Salt Lake (a couple of weeks apart), one from Florida, and another from somewhere else in the south, and the basic point of both were: I saw this wonderful spectacle during the Olympics, and thought "Wow, this sport is great, I thought hockey was mostly fights! Let'd tune into the NHL once it starts next week!" Then afterwards, they were bored by the low-scoring boring NHL game with all the defensive tactics.

I pretty sure that I will not be able to provide links to stories 4 years old, so given my level of interest on this subject, you will simply have to trust me on this.

With respect to "going back to what they were doing before" - things can change. Before MLB was the most popular sport in the US, now it is the NFL. All these people are watching Nascar now that weren't 5 years ago. With proper marketing of the NHL (another issue I have), and using the Olympics as a platform, the NHL can improve it's standing in the US.

 

[Jazz]

I'm sure... but the issue isn't a nation watching it's own games. Lotta people watch Team USA's games... just not the others.

It does not matter if they watch the other nation's games.

If there is hype in Finland for Finland's games, and national games like these make some kid pick up a hockey stick instread of a tennis racquet or a pair of skis etc...and want to pursue a hockey career, that is that this is all about - strengthening the hockey culture in that country.

 

[Jester]

There were independent 2 articles I succintly remember a couple of months after Salt Lake (a couple of weeks apart), one from Florida, and another from somewhere else in the south, and the basic point of both were: I saw this wonderful spectacle during the Olympics, and thought "Wow, this sport is great, I thought hockey was mostly fights! Let'd tune into the NHL once it starts next week!" Then afterwards, they were bored by the low-scoring boring NHL game with all the defensive tactics.

I pretty sure that I will not be able to provide links to stories 4 years old, so given my level of interest on this subject, you will simply have to trust me on this.

With respect to "going back to what they were doing before" - things can change. Before MLB was the most popular sport in the US, now it is the NFL. All these people are watching Nascar now that weren't 5 years ago. With proper marketing of the NHL (another issue I have), and using the Olympics as a platform, the NHL can improve it's standing in the US.

very dubious of this claim.

i think the largest problem for growth in the US is that kids aren't playing the sport of hockey growing up... thus there are very few casual fans, which is where baseball makes all of its money. you can't compete with the NFL because it is so friggin easy to follow (one game a week) and it is the perfect TV sport...

NASCAR fascinates me... and ever since i had an engineering friend who worked on a NASCAR crew for two summers tell me that even he didn't watch most of the races (just the beginning and end) i've written it off completely -- despite the clear excitement that a left-turn represents .

anyway.

the way the sport is going to grow in the US is by establishing hockey in the markets that currently have hockey. by THOSE teams winning, and winning consistently, which will grow fans with the franchise... the problem with that, and MY issue with the way that the NHL has been managed, is that it takes time to develop those markets. people need to learn about hockey and get interested in it... which requires winning. your team losing every night is boring... this is the BEST aspect of the new CBA... teams that don't have the built-up market will be able to compete financially and hopefully maintain their players to keep on winning.

the Olympics do not help this at all... they really don't. people watched the Olympics... got interested... and then turned back to a team that was losing with regularity in the markets that you are talking about. if their team was going out and winning every night they would keep watching. has nothing to do with the game being boring... not to mention you can't trust people in this sort of thing. people ALWAYS have serious complaints about their vacation and then afterwards say it was great... opinion polls are shotty at best.

 

[Jester]

It does not matter if they watch the other nation's games.

If there is hype in Finland for Finland's games, and national games like these make some kid pick up a hockey stick instread of a tennis racquet or a pair of skis etc...and want to pursue a hockey career, that is that this is all about - strengthening the hockey culture in that country.

dude... that's the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR! you want people watching HOCKEY... not just their own flag. you're getting ZERO growth for the game if people tune-in just to see their own team play and then turn the channel back off... cuz they aren't watching hockey, they're watching "us" play.