Bring Back Amateurs to Olympic Hockey

[Epsilon]

I'll repost what I posted in the NHL Board thread on this topic:

Here's what I've concluded: people only know about the Miracle on Ice and nothing else pre-1998, so they assume that the only pro athletes in the Olympics are the ones from North American team pro sports leagues (NHL, NBA, etc.) and that everyone else, and everyone beforehand, were "amateurs" because the 1980 US team was. There's no other explanation to how people can misunderstand this "pros vs. amateurs" nonsense as much as they do.

 

[sarge88]

I'll repost what I posted in the NHL Board thread on this topic:

Here's what I've concluded: people only know about the Miracle on Ice and nothing else pre-1998, so they assume that the only pro athletes in the Olympics are the ones from North American team pro sports leagues (NHL, NBA, etc.) and that everyone else, and everyone beforehand, were "amateurs" because the 1980 US team was. There's no other explanation to how people can misunderstand this "pros vs. amateurs" nonsense as much as they do.

I think people do, they just tend to say professionals when they are referring to NHL professionals or NBA or MLB.

Most people are aware that "professionals" from European countries were competing in the Olympics from the beginning, it is just a semantical point.

Speaking for myself, I don't want NHL'ers playing in the Olympics. It negatively impacts the NHL season, which is the only one that I personally care about.

Team USA doesn't represent me because Team USA is made up of a collection of players who I generally dislike because they play for teams that I dislike in the NHL.

I know I'm not in the majority on this issue, but I guarantee there are others who have a similar opinion. One which is just dismissed out of hand by the majority of people who are beholden to Olympic hockey.

 

[jd84]

Well, I am an American and I rather have the best of the best playing at the Olympics. This is about showing the world our talent right then why go with amateurs? And it is not as if they dont want to go to the Olympics. they did ask for it in their contracts. The only thing is that the NHL should give the players more days off so they have more time to practice.

And I love it how people give 1980 as an example to proove their points. I dont think people realize 1980 will never happen again.

 

[JVR]

I think people do, they just tend to say professionals when they are referring to NHL professionals or NBA or MLB.

And I think that's quite disrespectful!

 

[txomisc]

i reason i prefer amateurs is simply that they are a team. They practice together for quite a while and form a team atmosphere. Players know what their roles are and are more like a well oiled machine.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

i reason i prefer amateurs is simply that they are a team. They practice together for quite a while and form a team atmosphere. Players know what their roles are and are more like a well oiled machine.

Are you suggesting we revisit the National team setup of years gone by? Dave King and the boys roaming the earth looking for games in Budapest and Heerenveen.

 

[sarge88]

And I think that's quite disrespectful!

I don't mean that they say it in a conscious manner or to be disrespectful.

Just in natural conversation, when someone from North America says pros they are usually referring to pros in the NHL, which is the league that they usually follow.

When a German uses the german word for "professionals" I woud assume they are referring to professionals in Germany not Sweden, Russia, Finland or anywhere else.

 

[clefty]

These millionaires don't need to a Gold Medal.

What does that have to do with anything?

There was a skiier who won a gold medal last week who started an internet company and is estimated to be worth something like $30 million. Just because you make money it doesn't make you any less entitled to represent your country and compete for a gold medal.

Anyway, Canadians always do this. This knee jerk/sky is falling reaction. The thing is, the Canadia national team being upset isn't new, but every time it happens its presented as the greatest disaster in history. This happened in Nagano in 98, it happened when they were hammered by the Soviets in the first game of the Summit Series in 72, and its happening now. Hell, it happened when the junior team lost to Kazakhstan that one time.

This kind of thing will happen again in 10 years, and once again it will be deemed the worst thing to have ever happened in Canadian hockey. Just because they lost it doesn't mean they don't care. They'll be back right in the mix for gold in four years, forget this reverting to amateur stuff. Its not like Canada had any success under that format, anyway.

 

[jekoh]

Just in natural conversation, when someone from North America says pros they are usually referring to pros in the NHL, which is the league that they usually follow.

When a German uses the german word for "professionals" I woud assume they are referring to professionals in Germany not Sweden, Russia, Finland or anywhere else.

You would be wrong, it's typically North American.

 

[ts11]

You would be wrong, it's typically North American.

I agree, a Pro for a German is a paid athlet, we even talk about pro soccer in the USA

I don't know why so many mainly North American fans want junior or bush players at the olympics. Effort isn't something about age or salary, look at the Sundins, Koivus, Kozlovs, Richters and Smyths. If the Canadiens think their team will be better if they play their Under-23 team or EURO-Canadiens, fine. But don't press the other teams in this direction. I want "my" Swedes and Germans with the best players available, no matter what age or league. That's how it should be IMO.

 

[sarge88]

You would be wrong, it's typically North American.

So if you're sitting in a bar in Germany and the guy next to you says (in German, of course) I can't believe these pro-athletes today they all ...................

You automatically think of pro-athletes in the global sense and not the professional athletes in Germany?

 

[Chimpradamus]

So if you're sitting in a bar in Germany and the guy next to you says (in German, of course) I can't believe these pro-athletes today they all ...................

You automatically think of pro-athletes in the global sense and not the professional athletes in Germany?

Of course? A pro is a pro. A welder is a welder. If I speak in a bar about Swedish professionals, I say "Swedish professionals." If I just say "professionals", my friends would assume I meant "professionals as a general, regardless of nationality and regardless of sport." (if I haven't already mentioned which sport)

If you say "Amateurs should play in Olympics", I think that you mean that amateurs should participate in Olympics, when you really mean "No NHL players should participate, but professionals outside of NHL can"?

 

[Hasbro]

Amateurism in the Olympics was always a wobbly sham and I'm amazed that they have managed to juice this concept as long as they have.

 

[sarge88]

Of course? A pro is a pro. A welder is a welder. If I speak in a bar about Swedish professionals, I say "Swedish professionals." If I just say "professionals", my friends would assume I meant "professionals as a general, regardless of nationality."

What happens if the guy says -- "can you believe what happened in the game last night?"

Do you find yourself confused as to whether he is referring to a goal scored by a Nigerian soccer player in club play, a three point shot by Kobe Bryant or a homerun hit by my 16 year old cousin in his high school baseball game?

A game is a game.

 

[Chimpradamus]

What happens if the guy says -- "can you believe what happened in the game last night?"

Do you find yourself confused as to whether he is referring to a goal scored by a Nigerian soccer player in club play, a three point shot by Kobe Bryant or a homerun hit by my 16 year old cousin in his high school baseball game?

A game is a game.

My answer is quite obivous. If he is sure I know which game he is talking about, he won't say anything more than what you said. However, if there were 4 quarter finals AND a champion's league football game on TV yesterday, he will probably specify which game he's talking about.

If your argument is "No NHL pro's should play in the Olympics", don't write "No pro's should play in the Olympics", as this is implying no pro should play in the Olympics, not even those outside of NHL.

Because you say "play", I'm quite sure you are focusing on hockey. If you would have written "participate", I wouldn't be sure if you meant the other sports as well.

 

[Metallian*]

I dont give a **** what the Olympic s want or the NHL , Canada shouls send Non NHLERS in the future.

They will represent our flag with pride - win or lose

You think they could have gotten 7th ( like this years team of floaters)????

I hope you never post again. Ever.

 

[sarge88]

My answer is quite obivous. If he is sure I know which game he is talking about, he won't say anything more than what you said. However, if there was 4 quarter finals AND a champion's league football game on TV yesterday, he will probably specify which game he's talking about.

So you've made my original point. When I am speaking to someone that I am familiar with and who I know follows the NHL, NBA, MLB or NFL and I say "pros" they obviously understand that I am referring to the "pros" in those leagues and not players from the Swedish Elite League, the CFL or any other "professional" league.

If I was sitting in a bar in London, I wouldn't be as vague in conversation with someone I just met. If I wanted to talk about professional sports in that situation, I say what do you think of the NBA playoffs. Not a general how have you enjoyed the basketball playoffs.

 

[Gozer]

So you've made my original point. When I am speaking to someone that I am familiar with and who I know follows the NHL, NBA, MLB or NFL and I say "pros" they obviously understand that I am referring to the "pros" in those leagues and not players from the Swedish Elite League, the CFL or any other "professional" league.

If I was sitting in a bar in London, I wouldn't be as vague in conversation with someone I just met. If I wanted to talk about professional sports in that situation, I say what do you think of the NBA playoffs. Not a general how have you enjoyed the basketball playoffs.

But those are national leagues, not an international tournament. So if someone say, ban pro's from the olympics, it isn't unresonable to think that you mean all pro's and not just pro's from one place and not another.

 

[JVR]

But those are national leagues, not an international tournament. So if someone say, ban pro's from the olympics, it isn't unresonable to think that you mean all pro's and not just pro's from one place and not another.

Exactly. At least I understood it that way but maybe it's just because I'm dumb...

 

[TheRedressor]

This thread is crap, If Canada doesn't win Gold they don't want NHLers because theyre clearly better than the rest. However if their were no NHLers and Canada didn't win Gold they'd want NHLers cause they have the best players. Just whinning from Canada.

 

[Saklander]

Sore loohooseheer

 

[Jazz]

NHLPA president Trevor Linden, Canuck coach Marc Crawford, and Canucks GM Dave Nonis (even after losing Ohlund and Salo) were on local radio yesterday and each said (in separate interviews) that something has to be done about the schedule for the Vancouver games in 2010. But that overall, they favor Olympic participation by the NHL.

All three also mentioned that Olympic participation is great for the game in terms of expanding it's popularity worldwide ("it is not only Canada's game anymore"), and Linden also made the point (that I have been making ad naseum here) that the World Cup is not prestigious outside Canada, and to a smaller extent Sweden and Finland (eg, the Czechs have failed to sell-out a game in 2 tournaments), and it would be a step-backwards to stop Olympic participation and revert to a World Cup.

 

[Jester]

This thread is crap, If Canada doesn't win Gold they don't want NHLers because theyre clearly better than the rest. However if their were no NHLers and Canada didn't win Gold they'd want NHLers cause they have the best players. Just whinning from Canada.

i've been against the NHLers going from the start...

 

[Jester]

NHLPA president Trevor Linden, Canuck coach Marc Crawford, and Canucks GM Dave Nonis (even after losing Ohlund and Salo) were on local radio yesterday and each said (in separate interviews) that something has to be done about the schedule for the Vancouver games in 2010. But that overall, they favor Olympic participation by the NHL.

All three also mentioned that Olympic participation is great for the game in terms of expanding it's popularity worldwide ("it is not only Canada's game anymore"), and Linden also made the point (that I have been making ad naseum here) that the World Cup is not prestigious outside Canada, and to a smaller extent Sweden and Finland (eg, the Czechs have failed to sell-out a game in 2 tournaments), and it would be a step-backwards to stop Olympic participation and revert to a World Cup.

Obviously. If you stop participating in the Olympics that makes the World Cup a bigger deal since it will be the only tournament with the elite players. If you participate in both... obviously one is going to be viewed as better than the other.

Take the World Cup, increase IIHF participation in the operation of the tournament and make it into a better world tournament.

News Flash: It hasn't been "only" Canada's game for a while... NHL participation in the Olympics has had NOTHING to do with that development.

 

[Jussi]

Obviously. If you stop participating in the Olympics that makes the World Cup a bigger deal since it will be the only tournament with the elite players. If you participate in both... obviously one is going to be viewed as better than the other.

Take the World Cup, increase IIHF participation in the operation of the tournament and make it into a better world tournament.

No IIHF participation will make the World Cup a more prestigious tournament. It's held towards the end summer, no one cares about hockey then. No one cared about the World Cup in 1996 either.