Brian Leetch Or Scott Niedermayer?

[PainForShane]

OP -- are you talking better peak, or better career? Or "if you had one game to win who would you choose"?

"Better player" is really ambiguous imo. A lot of that is up to how the voters understand (or mistakenly understand) the question depending on what you intended to ask

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

That's rich coming from you

You just proved his point……

 

[DitchMarner]

OP -- are you talking better peak, or better career? Or "if you had one game to win who would you choose"?

"Better player" is really ambiguous imo. A lot of that is up to how the voters understand (or mistakenly understand) the question depending on what you intended to ask

Better player over their careers.

 

[Kupo]

Niedermayer. He was one of those type of defenseman that could eat up huge minutes and you might not notice him much - that’s always a good thing. A lot of what he did best didn’t show up on the scoresheet. Later on in his career, he added near-elite offensive production to his repertoire, on top of what already made him great.

Leech was a dynamic offensive defenseman. It’s flashy and impressive and exciting, but just not as effective at the position at the end of the day. A modern day equivalent would be a guy like Evan Bouchard - he might win a Norris eventually, maybe even a couple because of his incredible scoring, but I’ll never consider him the best overall defenseman, unless he seriously changes the way he plays the game or adds facets that he doesn’t currently have. And I say that as an Oilers fan.

Leetch averaged more minutes than Niedermayer, and the near-elite production he added later in his career was still less than Leetch's career average. So even on his best day, he wasn't anywhere near as productive.

The Bouchard comparison isn't accurate. They are completely different players. Leetch's skating ability, transition game and playmaking abilities were all miles ahead of Bouchard's. Leetch didn't have a rocket from the point like Evan either. It's a lazy comparison.

I loved Niedermayer's game. He was definitely more defensive than Leetch, but Brian wasn't a liability in his own zone. He threw a good hip check, was excellent at stripping pucks, and was very responsible with the puck. Leetch was the better player. That's not a shot at Niedermayer or the Devils.

 

[Dfence033]

Scott Niedermayer was a hell of a player. That said, his “near elite” production being described here is a poor comparison. Leetch had 4 PPG+ seasons (SN had 0). Leetch had 100 points and 80 assists in a season, SN never did either. Leetch scored 20+ goals 5 times, SN had 0. Leetch had 3 seasons where his assist total alone eclipsed SN’s career high in points.

Leetch scored nearly 300 more points than SN, despite playing 60 fewer games. And Leetch wasn’t any where near as bad defensively as he’s being made out to be here to justify SN being on the same tier. Leetch is one of the best scoring defenders of all time. I’d have a hard time saying SN was one of the top 5 defensive defenders of all time to equate.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

You just proved his point……

I did? I get over 30 years of my life back now?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Typical HF strawman. Adding context means a player sucks apparently

It’s not adding context to say he wouldn’t have won as much had he been born in the USA in an attempt to discredit a player. It’s literally the easiest excuse anyone can come up with, the fact that he won gold medals and 4 Stanley Cups simply be the was born in Canada is ridiculous.

 

[NyQuil]

It’s not adding context to say he wouldn’t have won as much had he been born in the USA in an attempt to discredit a player. It’s literally the easiest excuse anyone can come up with, the fact that he won gold medals and 4 Stanley Cups simply be the was born in Canada is ridiculous.

Oh I get it.

So if Scott Niedermayer had been on the team, USA would have won the World Championships instead of not having won since 1960.

Thats just what a winning guy can do.

 

[Regal]

It’s not adding context to say he wouldn’t have won as much had he been born in the USA in an attempt to discredit a player. It’s literally the easiest excuse anyone can come up with, the fact that he won gold medals and 4 Stanley Cups simply be the was born in Canada is ridiculous.

The bolded is again you negatively misinterpreting what is being said. Saying Nieds wouldn’t have won as much as he did if he wasn’t Canadian isn’t the same thing as saying he won just because he was born in Canada. He had to be great enough to make those teams and contribute, but Canada would still be the favourite without him and he was arguably not the best defenseman on 3 of his 4 cup teams. It is absolutely adding context to say he benefitted from being in great situations because Leetch didn’t have the same number of great opportunities, and when he did he also won a cup and a World Cup. Using Niedermayer’s cup and Olympic wins is an “easy” argument, so of course it’s countered with an “easy excuse”.

 

[wetcoast]

Leetch a superior player.
Better pk killer.
Better on the PP.
Better playoff performer, more versatile more prolific.
A masterful end-to-end rusher.

I agree with this at their peaks but Nieds was more steady and was a member of Team Canada over 2 Olumpics and 2 more best on best tournaments over a 13 year span.

Drafting both guys knowing what we know with health and decline I'd take Nieds....maybe as Leetch in his prime was dynamite.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Why is this in the National Hockey league section? Did both players unretire?

move this to the history section!

 

[Kupo]

Why is this in the National Hockey league section? Did both players unretire?

move this to the history section!

It’s a poll. It’s in the correct section.

 

[Felidae]

Since no one else has posted their award records yet, here it is.


Leetch

Norris: 1, 1, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 15
Hart: 9, 16, 22

Niedermayer:
Norris: 1, 2, 2, 5, 10, 12, 13
Hart: 7, 8, 9, 17

Leetch has the better Norris record and he was competing against stronger competition. Prime Chelios, Coffey and Bourque is tougher than Lidstrom, Chara and Pronger who consistently missed games

 

[SillyRabbit]

Why is this in the National Hockey league section? Did both players unretire?

move this to the history section!

You're right. This poll would do better in the History of Hockey section because the posters there will have watched both players careers in full.

 

[SuperScript29]

I dunno about that, I would say Leetch is a lot better defensively than Karlsson when he put it together after his first few years. In fact the place where Leetch lacks in comparison to Karlsson is his finish, and I think a ton of that would be closed if he got to use today's sticks.

Niedermayer gets a bit of the Toews treatment backlash, and is probably underrated on HF, but I think the world of Brian Leetch, to me he has as good a case as anyone to be the defenseman of the nineties and he would be so incredibly valuable if he played today the way top defensemen are expected to activate... Makar who?

Leetch had his moments, but to me he always takes the backseat to the likes of Bourque, Lidstrom, Chelios, MacInnis, Pronger, etc. He pretty much played in a era where defensemen who played defense were a lot more appreciated. That being said, I think Leetch vs Niedermayer is a close one, I just prefer the guy that was more complete.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Still inferior to Leetch.

But not even remotely close to as decorated

 

[Grifter3511]

Fwiw, Leetch's ppg  increases in the playoffs and Neidermeyer's decreases.

Neidermeyer played significantly more playoff games than Leetch, which I would argue potentially hurts his ppg odds, but Leetch had 5 different playoffs with over a ppg. Scottie had none.

 

[Albatros]

Fwiw, Leetch's ppg  increases in the playoffs and Neidermeyer's decreases.

Neidermeyer played significantly more playoff games than Leetch, which I would argue potentially hurts his ppg odds, but Leetch had 5 different playoffs with over a ppg. Scottie had none.

Also high-scoring years versus the dead-puck era, no sense in comparing that.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Also high-scoring years versus the dead-puck era, no sense in comparing that.

Leech put up significantly more offence than Niedermayer in the dead puck too.. while on much worse teams.

 

[Dingo]

Sure, that negates the other 3 times Niedermayer won the cup.


Bet if you really try, you could find Scott Niedermayer holding that exact same trophy.... and the Cup 3 additional times. That Cups plural, just like my post not Cup singular like Leetch

I'll take 4 Cups over 1 every day.

and that's why the real answer to this poll is Kevin Lowe.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Two guys who I think are both pretty overrated in hockey circles.

Devils fan saying Leetch though. Gap on offense is bigger than the gap on D.

 

[trentmccleary]

Leetch.
Leetch was great for his entire career. Niedermayer was great for 3 seasons and a postseason (2003 playoffs until the end of the 2007 season), but that wasn't representative of his entire career.

 

[Grifter3511]

Also high-scoring years versus the dead-puck era, no sense in comparing that.

I mean, their careers did overlap. Neidermeyer won a cup in 1995. Leetch put up more points in 2 rounds than Neidermeyer did in 4. But sure, throw it out if it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

There has to be a generational divide in this thread.

Yup, you can tell who the children are based on their vote.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

it's close, very close, but give me Niedermeyer.