Brian Leetch: Greatest American Player Ever?

[Killer Orcas]

By the way, the best story about Orr is the first time Bobby Hull played against him, Hull supposedly skated over to the ref after the first period and said that they'll need two pucks for the 2nd and 3rd periods. One for Orr and one for the rest of us.

That's awesome first time I've heard of this thanks for sharing !

 

[Clark Kellogg]

With all the names that have been put up so far , I would also add Housley to the list

 

[rangers1314]

The best American player ever up to today is Patrick Kane.

10 years from now it could be Austin Matthews

 

[Ori]

The best American player ever up to today is Patrick Kane.

10 years from now it could be Austin Matthews

Yeah true about Kane with PPG stat this season 33 games and 33 points.
However Kreider is really good as well with 34 points in 38 games. His best season and he is US & All Star!

 

[Zanex]

Comparing players from different eras is impossible, so you have to look at how they compared to their contemporaries. Different equipment, different conditioning, way different access to medical knowledge, among other things.

The quality of the sport has risen, like every other sport, that's just a fact of getting better at building good athletes.

All of the defensemen you cite were at times at the very top of defensemen in the NHL. Orr was by far the best PLAYER in the entire sport every season, including his rookie season, until somewhere around his 8th knee surgery.

P.S. While it's close, Park was good as Leetch on offense and was arguably the most physical player on the entire team. The only knock on Park is that he wasn't a Ranger for nearly as long because of the biggest trade in Rangers history.

Any list you were to find of best defensemen in the history of the NHL is pretty likely to list Park ahead of Leetch and it's usually not close. That doesn't prove I'm right but it's not a bad argument for my opinion.

By the way, the best story about Orr is the first time Bobby Hull played against him, Hull supposedly skated over to the ref after the first period and said that they'll need two pucks for the 2nd and 3rd periods. One for Orr and one for the rest of us.

I certainly respect all opinions but Leetch is regarded as the greatest Rangers player ever by most fans including those who saw both him and Park play. Leetch has always been knocked down unjustly on lists because of the dark ages, which is unfortunate. But having seen both players play I'd pick Leetch in a heartbeat over Park.

 

[chosen]

I certainly respect all opinions but Leetch is regarded as the greatest Rangers player ever by most fans including those who saw both him and Park play. Leetch has always been knocked down unjustly on lists because of the dark ages, which is unfortunate. But having seen both players play I'd pick Leetch in a heartbeat over Park.

And I'd pick Park.

In any case, they were both great players.

 

[mm11]

Leetch is right there. Wonder how good he would be playing in today's NHL

 

[TominNC]

Leetch is right there. Wonder how good he would be playing in today's NHL

You could say that about any player from before the current era.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Modano

There's not much of a case for him over Patrick Kane really

The best American player ever up to today is Patrick Kane.

10 years from now it could be Austin Matthews

Matthews definitely has the talent to do so and is on a good path so far. He and the Leaves need to shed that playoff narrative though.

You could say that about any player from before the current era.

Some guys more than others though...

 

[FoxyClean]

Adam Fox.

Reply to me in 15 years.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I have Leetch, Kane, Lafontaine, and Modano in the top tier. I think an legit argument could be made for any of them.

Chellios is not in that group imo. Chellios, and Brett Hull below that tier.

JR, and others are below.

 

[cwede]

I have Leetch, Kane, Lafontaine, and Modano in the top tier. I think an legit argument could be made for any of them. Chellios is not in that group imo. Chellios, and Brett Hull below that tier.
JR, and others are below.

it's all just opinion, but, for me,
I don't think a legit argument can be made to exclude Chelios from top group.
If you made a longer list, and built a team,
he'd probably wear the C, and lead in ToI

 

[ElLeetch]

yes.

 

[Zanex]

I have Leetch, Kane, Lafontaine, and Modano in the top tier. I think an legit argument could be made for any of them.

Chellios is not in that group imo. Chellios, and Brett Hull below that tier.

JR, and others are below.

I don't get why some people on the history forum rank Chelios higher than Leetch. I get that Chelios was more physical and played longer, but Leetch was clearly superior in every other category.

Is it because he has 3 cups? The teams Chelios were on would have won those cups without him. Same can't be said for Leetch in 94.

 

[NickyFotiu]

it's all just opinion, but, for me,
I don't think a legit argument can be made to exclude Chelios from top group.
If you made a longer list, and built a team,
he'd probably wear the C, and lead in ToI

If longevity was a factor he would be up there but I do not see the same ceiling as the others. As far as minutes go I remember Brian playing almost half a game at times. I feel Chelios best would be around 70 points but Brians was 85-100.

 

[CasusBelli]

Brett Hull for me.

 

[nyrmetros]

Greatest Brian Leetch USA Hockey jersey ever?

 

[Paul Padovano]

Comparing players from different eras is impossible, so you have to look at how they compared to their contemporaries. Different equipment, different conditioning, way different access to medical knowledge, among other things.

The quality of the sport has risen, like every other sport, that's just a fact of getting better at building good athletes.

All of the defensemen you cite were at times at the very top of defensemen in the NHL. Orr was by far the best PLAYER in the entire sport every season, including his rookie season, until somewhere around his 8th knee surgery.

P.S. While it's close, Park was good as Leetch on offense and was arguably the most physical player on the entire team. The only knock on Park is that he wasn't a Ranger for nearly as long because of the biggest trade in Rangers history.

Any list you were to find of best defensemen in the history of the NHL is pretty likely to list Park ahead of Leetch and it's usually not close. That doesn't prove I'm right but it's not a bad argument for my opinion.

By the way, the best story about Orr is the first time Bobby Hull played against him, Hull supposedly skated over to the ref after the first period and said that they'll need two pucks for the 2nd and 3rd periods. One for Orr and one for the rest of us.

I'm wondering why Park gets put ahead of Leetch. Even if you take Park's seasons in Boston into account, Leetch still finishes ahead of Park in goals and assists.

 

[hackeyman]

Orr was great but benefitted greatly from playing in the weakest era in NHL history. Literally half the league were expansion teams, and I don't mean Vegas Golden Knights expansion either. I'm talking Mighty Ducks expansion teams.

Leetch is considered the greatest Ranger ever, which would obviously put him above Brad Park. Park was runner-up to Orr many times for the Norris.

Put Leetch, Bourque, Chelios, MacInnis in that era and Orr wouldn't be racking up Norris wins year after year. He'd win some, but so would those other guys.

Sorry but Leetch couldn't tie Orr's laces.
It was not the weakest era in NHL history. Prior the NHL was an old boys club and good young players weren't getting a chance. In Orr's Rookie year the Calder runners up to the 18 year old sensation were ages 26,25,23. Going back to 1960 there wasn't a rookie in the top 5 of voting for Calder under age 20. In the those expansion years it is the new players quickly replacing and leading the old guys on their teams and leagues . BUT WAIT............................................................BOBBY ORR PLAYED IN THE ORIGINAL 6 AS AN 18 YEAR OLD (when an 18 yr old rookie was EXTREMELY rare let alone a defenceman. SO HOW DID HE DO ? He placed 5th in the Hart Trophy voting....AS AN 18 year old. CASE CLOSED ON THE ERA ARGUMENT.
Bobby Orr wasn't just the best defenceman for 8 years , He was the best player but some of the writers/voters didn't vote Hart for him and treated it as best offence player and Orr would get Norris. The most dramatic example is 1974-75. A defenceman wins the ART Ross Trophy scoring for only the second time in history(and he being the other) with a 135 points 19 more than forward who won the Hart , a plus 80 and a record 46 goals for a defenceman. 46 years later no other defenceman in NHL history has even come close to winning the scoring title. AND HE DOESN'T WIN THE HART ????
Booby Orr was in a league of his own.

 

[ncmike]

Obvi there's no such thing as best ever except in conversation,
despite our bias, it's not hands-down even that Leetchie was best US D ever.

I loved Leetch but Chelios was also a tone-setter.

Just like there's no concensus of best NHL player ever

I saw mid/late Gordie, prime Orr, all of Gretz and Mario, and Sid and McJesus,

Orr made the game watch him. Best I saw.
But as mentioned above, it's all just personal opinion.

agree with much that you say. But there’s no comparison. Gretzky has no equal.
Orr changed the game for defenseman. Gordie is what you want to fill a team with and lemieux might have challenged Gretzky’s records but injuries.
Don’t even bother with Crosby. He’s scored over 120 points once on his career.
There’s no one who comes close to Gretzky. And this comes from a fan that hated Gretzky until he became a Ranger. Then I saw his greatness full time.

 

[Zanex]

Sorry but Leetch couldn't tie Orr's laces.
It was not the weakest era in NHL history. Prior the NHL was an old boys club and good young players weren't getting a chance. In Orr's Rookie year the Calder runners up to the 18 year old sensation were ages 26,25,23. Going back to 1960 there wasn't a rookie in the top 5 of voting for Calder under age 20. In the those expansion years it is the new players quickly replacing and leading the old guys on their teams and leagues . BUT WAIT............................................................BOBBY ORR PLAYED IN THE ORIGINAL 6 AS AN 18 YEAR OLD (when an 18 yr old rookie was EXTREMELY rare let alone a defenceman. SO HOW DID HE DO ? He placed 5th in the Hart Trophy voting....AS AN 18 year old. CASE CLOSED ON THE ERA ARGUMENT.
Bobby Orr wasn't just the best defenceman for 8 years , He was the best player but some of the writers/voters didn't vote Hart for him and treated it as best offence player and Orr would get Norris. The most dramatic example is 1974-75. A defenceman wins the ART Ross Trophy scoring for only the second time in history(and he being the other) with a 135 points 19 more than forward who won the Hart , a plus 80 and a record 46 goals for a defenceman. 46 years later no other defenceman in NHL history has even come close to winning the scoring title. AND HE DOESN'T WIN THE HART ????
Booby Orr was in a league of his own.

Orr dominated his peers more so than Leetch did. This doesn't mean a player like Leetch wasn't in Orr's league, though.

Both are Hall of Famers and both made it to the NHL's Top 100 list, which had only 21 total Defensemen. It's disrespectful to Leetch and a total exaggeration to say Orr was "light years" better.

Leetch played in perhaps the toughest era competition wise in the history of the NHL. Orr was the exact opposite. Brad Park was Orr's main competition.

No disrespect to Park but talent-wise he wasn't on Leetch's level. Orr benefited TREMENDOUSLY entering a league with very weak competition.

Was he great? Yes of course, no one is arguing that. However, I do 100% concur with Stan Fischler's assessment of Orr in that he is somewhat overrated because the competition level of his era was maybe the worst in NHL history.

Lidstrom is another guy who played in a very weak era competition wise, and as a result racked up Norris wins simply because there was no one else to give the award to. His main competitor was Scott Niedermayer, lol.

Leetch had to contend with guys like Al MacInnis, Chris Chelios, Ray Bourque and Chris Pronger. And he still managed to snag 2 Norris wins. Probably should have had at least 3 but the Rangers were awful in 2001 so he was overlooked.

I have no issue with someone thinking Orr had a better career than Leetch. Orr had a better career than most players so it's not an insult. But when you say other players "weren't in his league" it irks me because you're not looking at the whole picture in my opinion.

I definitely think Leetch wins a few of those Norris Trophies that Orr won if he played in Orr's era. And there is no way Orr wins Norris Trophies for a decade straight in a league with Leetch, Chelios, Bourque and MacInnis. Just my opinion.

 

[hackeyman]

So you couldn't have read a word I said. I disagree that Orr's era was weaker than Leetch's BUT lets deal with my first point. ORR played in what is using your own reasoning the least diluted era in the NHL.....the original 6 era. He played as an 18 year old and ranked 6th in Hart Trophy voting even though an 18 year old playing then was almost unheard of and I believe absolutely unheard of for a defenceman. Brian Leetch in his entire career was only ranked in the top 10 for the Hart once. He was in a 4 way tie for 9th. I think you make the mistake that many make in saying the high scoring era was the most competitive because look at all the great scorers there were. In Leetch's long career he was a plus 25. Orr in an injury plagued career cut in half was plus 582. Let this sink in .Only a very very few 19 year olds played in the NHL back then . A handful going back decades. And no 19 year old won a calder. Orr comes in at 18 and is 6th in voting for the Hart in the original 6 against the likes of Gordie Howe, Stan Makita, Booby Hull , Pierre Pilotte, Bernie Geoffrion. For God's sake he outscored Jean Belliveau and Yvon cournoyer as an 18 year old. HE CHANGED THE GAME AGAINST LEGENDS !

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm wondering why Park gets put ahead of Leetch. Even if you take Park's seasons in Boston into account, Leetch still finishes ahead of Park in goals and assists.

How did Park get in a conversation about the best American players? Park was really good but he was not American.

 

[Paul Padovano]

How did Park get in a conversation about the best American players? Park was really good but he was not American.

Did u read the comment I was responding too? Particularly the part about "any list one reads regarding NHL's best ever defense men?"

 

[CupSeeker]

Lafontaine and Roenick at his peak are the only two in the discussion with #2.