Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition)

[NYR Viper]

I am sure if people had a choice of who to fight, they would choose Orr over Scott.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The thing is, the Rangers aren't expecting him to score 20 goals again. If he scores 12-15 goals and plays excellent defensive hockey he is well worth his 1.7 million cap hit. It's not like the guy is playing top PP time and 20+ minutes a night and scoring 10 goals a year. He has his faults, but the things he does well are valuable to pretty much any team in the entire league.

A contending team should not have a Giant hole on its 3rd line, I'm sorry. Teams like Chicago and Boston make a mockery of a Boyle led 3rd line. The Pens have holes too, but they also have the 2 best players on their team. Seriously, I'm tired of the little engine that could boring-ass grind them out, hope for a 2-1 win Rangers team. The Rangers were hard to watch most of last year. Playing guys like Boyle on the 3rd line is returning to that.

 

[NYR Viper]

Kind of like he scored "12" goals last year or so. At least half of those came in the last half dozen games of the season.

This is the same argument people use against Gaborik. Who cares. He helped the team win games in other ways as well and if you are relying on Brian Boyle consistently for offense, your team sucks ass anyways as he is a borderline 3rd line player.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

Kind of like he scored "12" goals last year or so. At least half of those came in the last half dozen games of the season.

Yea, when the goals meant the most. On top of that, how many of Ashams goals in his prime years were over the course of tons of games. He hasn't scored double digits in 5 seasons.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is the same argument people use against Gaborik. Who cares. He helped the team win games in other ways as well and if you are relying on Brian Boyle consistently for offense, your team sucks ass anyways as he is a borderline 3rd line player.

Ok, that's why he needs to play on the 4th line at best. You saying that Miller will be sent down and he will play on the 3rd line, will drive me to drink.

 

[NYR Viper]

A contending team should not have a Giant hole on its 3rd line, I'm sorry. Teams like Chicago and Boston make a mockery of a Boyle led 3rd line. The Pens have holes too, but they also have the 2 best players on their team. Seriously, I'm tired of the little engine that could boring-ass grind them out, hope for a 2-1 win Rangers team. The Rangers were hard to watch most of last year. Playing guys like Boyle on the 3rd line is returning to that.

There is a trade deadline for a reason.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

There is a trade deadline for a reason.

I also don't care how our wins come if we end up in first place.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ok, that's why he needs to play on the 4th line at best. You saying that Miller will be sent down and he will play on the 3rd line, will drive me to drink.

I am not disagreeing with you. Heading into the playoffs, Boyle should be a 3rd/4th liner, but if the Rangers feel Miller needs more time to develop I would rather they not rush him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yea, when the goals meant the most. On top of that, how many of Ashams goals in his prime years were over the course of tons of games. He hasn't scored double digits in 5 seasons.

I'm not going to argue that Asham is a better offensive player. However, disregarding his goal he seems to fit the style of the team better now. That's of course if Miller stays up and doesn't fall off. We seem to be a skating team now. Boyle can't skate.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

We need to roll the dice. I'd agree with you, every year before last year. When we were a 6th seed at best that might win 1 round if they get a good matchup, we can afford to be careful with prospects. We are now a cup contender. We have to roll the dice with a guy that at least gives us a chance of a legit 3rd line center. With Boyle you get 2 fourth lines. Seriously, Rangers fans for as long as I can remember have been saying how the Rangers shouldn't bring up their prospects because they'll ruin them. Then they bring up Malhotra, who is a useful player now and was never going to be anything better than what he is now.

Honestly, I think the most damning player development examples are Jamie Lundmark, and Mike York. Especially Mike York.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

There is a trade deadline for a reason.

Then we'd have to move an asset. We'd also likely possibly will sacrifice points in the standings. Before you cite the Kings, that was an aberration at this point.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

I am not disagreeing with you. Heading into the playoffs, Boyle should be a 3rd/4th liner, but if the Rangers feel Miller needs more time to develop I would rather they not rush him.

Miller has looked great in the first couple games. But we see that in a lot of players. We saw it in Callahan, who ended up being sent down for half a season before he stuck full time, we saw it in MDZ, who had a great first season and an awful first half of the second one, then he was sent down. We were teetering on the edge with Kreider at first, but it seems he can make the jump (not 100% yet). Honestly, it's extremely common for guys in the rangers system (i'm not as familiar with others) to come in, play a bunch of games, even as much as a season, then fall hard into bad habits that they end up having to work out in the minors.

Maybe Miller will stick, no one knows, but he certainly has some kinks that need to be worked out. Maybe they will be overshadowed by his other skills and he can work them out at the NHL level, but there's a chance he could be sent back down. If the Rangers think that's best for his development, then that is what you do. Torts said that after he scored the two goals. He's not going to ruin a kids development to help the team now. Hopefully he sticks and gets better, but i sure as hell won't be upset if he has to be sent back down to work out stuff. If the Rangers have proven anything since the lockout, it's that they know how to develop players properly and with patience.

 

[NYR Viper]

Then we'd have to move an asset. We'd also likely possibly will sacrifice points in the standings. Before you cite the Kings, that was an aberration at this point.

If it means Miller will develop properly I am fine with it. I will trust Gordie and Gorton.

 

[Bardof425*]

So what do you really think he is. Most of your posts seem to generalize him as a borderline NHL player, which is absurd.

I see him as a serviceable 4th line center.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

I'm not going to argue that Asham is a better offensive player. However, disregarding his goal he seems to fit the style of the team better now. That's of course if Miller stays up and doesn't fall off. We seem to be a skating team now. Boyle can't skate.

You're basing this off of two games. I'm basing this off of two seasons. One of which saw the Rangers come in first place in the conference and make there best cup run since the win in 94.

 

[NYR Viper]

I see him as a serviceable 4th line center.

"serviceable" would be Blair Betts. Boyle is clearly better than Betts.

 

[Bardof425*]

Once the shine from Asham's goal wears off, please replace him with Boyle, Torts.

It's not just the goal; it's the positioning, passing, skating and toughness that has earned him a spot. Torts could not have been more complimentary about him yesterday. Boyle lovers need to
Set their sights on Halpern, Miller or Kreider if they want to see their boy back in.

 

[Bardof425*]

Do you really? Do you think its smart to trade a proven 3rd line defensive center for a 4th line goon? Seriously? You realize how absurd that is?

Who is this proven 3rd line player you speak of? And what goon?

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

I am not disagreeing with you. Heading into the playoffs, Boyle should be a 3rd/4th liner, but if the Rangers feel Miller needs more time to develop I would rather they not rush him.

I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that they just became a winning team and this is a short season where every win will matter. Miller has played a part in the progress of this team. Right now I'm for keeping him up as long as he is playing well.

If he starts getting into trouble or show signs that he's not ready to be in the league yet, send him down, until then keep him with the big club even if it burns a year off his elc.

 

[ImIdaho]

I am sure if people had a choice of who to fight, they would choose Orr over Scott.

How about Parros? Stood his ground against Scott this week and also clocked Orr's ass.

 

[Bardof425*]

The fact that the guy ended up in the press box for a while is totally justified and he should stay there until somebody else deserves to take his place. He has not begun the season well at all. That said, I believe Boyler is one of the better defensive centers in the game and can also chip in with about 40 points in a full season. He is incredibly valuable to this organization from a penalty killing, defensive work against the other team's best players, and the occasional offensive hot streak perspective. With the scorers this team possesses, Boyler is NOT expected to chip in consistently, but instead provide secondary offense from time to time. I am not sure what you guys expect from a defensive center who plays against the other team's best offensive players, but up until this season, he has typically produced exactly what I look for. If you are looking for 60 points from Boyle, I believe you want a top six player on the third line. Yes, that would make the New York Rangers unbeatable, but virtually no teams in the league have the luxury of having that kind of player on their third line. And if they do, he is usually a defensive liability or not used against other team's top players the way a checking center should be.

The one piece of his game that MUST improve is in the dot. He needs to win 60% of his faceoffs. It seems like every draw he takes in the defensive zone is lost and causes half of the blocked shots that he or Cally or Danny have to lay down and take damage for.

I look at defense as the ability to limit good scoring chances against your goalie. The best way to
Do that is puck possession in the other team's zone. This is where boyle fails miserably. When he's on the ice we spend most of that time defendIng largely because of his poor skills. Our 4th line looked great last night because they weren't running around in their own zone trying to break up passes and blocking shots which describes most of BB's shifts. People see this as good defense. I see it as bad hockey.

 

[The Gloaming]

Please no talentless goons at the deadline. No Orr's, Parros's, or John Scott's of the world. We already have our own talentless goon in Bickel. No more. The fourth line should be what we saw yesterday, hustle and forechecking. It's not supposed to be place for talentless plugs that can't skate and can only throw punches.

 

[Bardof425*]

Well now i have to eat crow because Asham scored last night...

Asham in his prime was both a better goal scorer and a better skater than Boyle. But in three full seasons at the NHL level Boyle's averaging 12 goals (his 21 goal campaign should offset his 4 goals the season prior). He's probably going to be a 25-30 point player for the foreseeable future.

Asham CAN produce at these levels and has in the past, but until last night I hadn't seen anything particularly stellar about his play. He's been a nonfactor, and his staged fights have brought nothing to the table. With our penalty kill still shaky, I think Boyle's biggest asset (his penalty killing) is worth icing him over a 34 year old fourth liner who only plays at even strength.

At least that was my thinking until last night. The fourth line looked great as a unit and Asham buried one when he had the chance, which is more than Boyle's done with the puck all season. I'll gladly eat crow if the Rangers keep winning.

Sorry for the harshness of my post. If Boyle gets back in i think it will be for Halpern, not Asham.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

I don't mess with chemistry, so i'm certainly advocating sitting boyle and keeping the lineup the same until another problem arises, but some people's opinion on the value of certain players is disconcerting to say the least.

 

[Bardof425*]

Boyle hasn't even hit his prime yet and he already had a 21 goal season. The most Asham ever scored was 15. He is a much better goal scorer and overall player than Asham.

He scored almost of his goals during a glorious two month period where everything he threw at the net went in. He ha never scored like that before or since. If he gets 8 - 10 minutes of ES time a night he will score 7 - 10 goals. He has been getting too much ice time the last couple of years which has helped his production but has not helped the team IMO. Ash is a better offensive player.