Brashear refusing to fight McSorley (all three times)
- Thread starter drtheglob
- Start date
Brashear was a horrible fighter in his early Habs days.
His style aside, he went on to become a great fighter. He fought everyone.
He was beating McSorely easily every time they fought. McSorely was ‘hanging on’ by this point in his career and was nowhere near Brashear’s caliber.
Brashear also loved to rub it in. He could be a real dick out there. He was enjoying kicking MM’s ass and then ignoring him saying ‘only on my terms’ and kind of a ‘I gave you lots of chances and you’re clearly not worthy’...this is what made McSorely so mad...
...he couldn’t do anything about it. He was being bettered by a better fighter, and with his long career winding down expected (and should have gotten) a lot more respect from a fellow gladiator...but instead Brashear showed no respect. As a matter of fact Brashear would beat on MM, and then for no real reason show him up to boot.
Brashear had some serious personality issues. His dad was supposed to be a world class POS. I’m not sure if that’s why he was the way he was, but he had a screw loose.
For those that say he didn’t like fighting, or was scared to fight tough guys...that’s your hate talking:
-In 2004 Brashear signed an amateur boxing contract and fought 3 times while a regular NHL player
-he also signed for peanuts to play in the LNAH during that lockout season, a renowned ‘anything goes’ league with top end fighters on every roster. There were no other tough guys willing to do anything of the sort.
-he fought MMA nearing his 40’s (a quick TKO win)
-after leaving the NHL he played for parts of 3-4 more seasons in the LNAH once again, while in his 40’s!
That doesn’t sound much like a guy scared to fight.
His style aside, he went on to become a great fighter. He fought everyone.
He was beating McSorely easily every time they fought. McSorely was ‘hanging on’ by this point in his career and was nowhere near Brashear’s caliber.
Brashear also loved to rub it in. He could be a real dick out there. He was enjoying kicking MM’s ass and then ignoring him saying ‘only on my terms’ and kind of a ‘I gave you lots of chances and you’re clearly not worthy’...this is what made McSorely so mad...
...he couldn’t do anything about it. He was being bettered by a better fighter, and with his long career winding down expected (and should have gotten) a lot more respect from a fellow gladiator...but instead Brashear showed no respect. As a matter of fact Brashear would beat on MM, and then for no real reason show him up to boot.
Brashear had some serious personality issues. His dad was supposed to be a world class POS. I’m not sure if that’s why he was the way he was, but he had a screw loose.
For those that say he didn’t like fighting, or was scared to fight tough guys...that’s your hate talking:
-In 2004 Brashear signed an amateur boxing contract and fought 3 times while a regular NHL player
-he also signed for peanuts to play in the LNAH during that lockout season, a renowned ‘anything goes’ league with top end fighters on every roster. There were no other tough guys willing to do anything of the sort.
-he fought MMA nearing his 40’s (a quick TKO win)
-after leaving the NHL he played for parts of 3-4 more seasons in the LNAH once again, while in his 40’s!
That doesn’t sound much like a guy scared to fight.
Well, the 'Brashear is scared' argument is kind of nuanced. Brashear eventually would drop the gloves with anyone, but he'd pick his spot. And even after the fight began, he'd didn't want to open up and throw a lot of the time. He also has a pretty well documented "bailing" problem. Brashear's series against Parker shows a lot of his approach to fighting. Parker was a young, up and coming fighter who was a serious contender that had flashes of success against Brashear. Instead of hoping to crush Parker and show he's the champ, Brashear was content to fight to a draw with Parker most of the time. One fight, he got loose, and got a solid win over Parker. That gave him the edge, and he moved on. Didn't do a ton of damage, didn't take much damage either. He arguably bailed against Parker in one fight. He was content to pick his spot and do "just enough" when it came to guys who could hurt him.
I think if Brashear went by the same code most enforcers do, he'd have 10-20 more loses/draws on his record. He deserves to be exposed for this. But at the same time, it's insane that people won't acknowledge how good he was. He did well against elite fighters, and pounded the absolute hell out of anyone who was any less than a solid "B" level fighter. There were solid fighters that literally just didn't have the strength to hurt Brashear. Whereas with other elite fighters, it seemed like an average fighter at least had a puncher's chance.
Brashear's shitty tactics deserve to be considered, but he's still top 5 all-time, easy.
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Kaiden Ghoul
Youppi va t’il devoir chauser ses patins calvaince
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Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
- Mar 22, 2009
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He fought Frank Bialowas three times with a draw and two defeats. Also Frank had to goad him each time to get him to fight. They were in the AHL then. The "Animal" was not half bad.
yukoner88
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JianYang
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Rob Ray was a tough customer, but you also knew that there was no opportunity to get a grip on him, or else his entire jersey was coming off, and then you are really screwed.
I dont know what caused the jersey tie down rule, but I always had this theory that it was because of Ray, and how he used that tactic to his advantage.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
The tie-down rule was widely known as the Rob Ray rule when it was made. I wouldn't quite call it a targeted shot at him individually, but it was definitely done with him in mind.
Not a lot of people remember that the tie-down rule was actually a follow-up to a rule from 2 years earlier: a game misconduct for removing your own jersey. That one DID stem from a single incident:
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Marty would snap at times and I'm sure most of us have seen those clips. Probably the best stamina of any fighter but at a minimum in the debate with a guy like Langdon and some others. By the time he is fighting Brashear here, his stamina is the really the only thing he has going for him at this point as he was holding on to an NHL job by a string.
Marty has gotten the stick up high before in an attempt to start a fight. I can think of one with Gallant and then a more famous one against Darren Banks where he wound up cross-checking him in the face. Bad quality but start watching around 1:15...he winds up taking a pretty serious chop to Gallant's shoulder:
Marty was never a saint but he was going to answer the bell if he injured the other team's goalie. Brashear wouldn't do so and not because he wouldn't fight Marty but apparently to just be the f***ing troll job that he was. This pissed Marty off to the point where--I believe--he tried to slash him hard on the shoulder to force him to fight since Brashear would look like even more of a bitch if he just took that. It's a fine line when you try to chop someone that high and Marty wound up clubbing him in the head. In the end, he should of just jumped him since Brashear wouldn't fight.
As for Brashear: live by the sword, die by the sword. His sucker job on Laperriere was even more disgusting as there is no possible argument about the intent to injure on that one v. Marty's slash. Also the way that Brashear just suckers him and immediately skates off like a total bitch. He's a tough one because he did fight everyone but then again he also has earned his spot-picking reputation. I'm not going to give him credit for fighting late into his career in LNAH because the guy is just out there trying to make money v. his love for fighting.
Marty has gotten the stick up high before in an attempt to start a fight. I can think of one with Gallant and then a more famous one against Darren Banks where he wound up cross-checking him in the face. Bad quality but start watching around 1:15...he winds up taking a pretty serious chop to Gallant's shoulder:
Marty was never a saint but he was going to answer the bell if he injured the other team's goalie. Brashear wouldn't do so and not because he wouldn't fight Marty but apparently to just be the f***ing troll job that he was. This pissed Marty off to the point where--I believe--he tried to slash him hard on the shoulder to force him to fight since Brashear would look like even more of a bitch if he just took that. It's a fine line when you try to chop someone that high and Marty wound up clubbing him in the head. In the end, he should of just jumped him since Brashear wouldn't fight.
As for Brashear: live by the sword, die by the sword. His sucker job on Laperriere was even more disgusting as there is no possible argument about the intent to injure on that one v. Marty's slash. Also the way that Brashear just suckers him and immediately skates off like a total bitch. He's a tough one because he did fight everyone but then again he also has earned his spot-picking reputation. I'm not going to give him credit for fighting late into his career in LNAH because the guy is just out there trying to make money v. his love for fighting.
- Mar 10, 2010
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Its not that he was scared to fight in general but for some reason he rubbed allot of his peers the wrong way? Seems like he was often singled out as a fighter the guys didn't respect much? I wonder what the reason was for that most of these guys respected each other knowing how tough the job was to do?
Once he got over his slow start as a fighter he because one of the tougher guys to beat clean.
DaaaaB's
Registered User
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His style of fighting pissed people off too. No one likes a hugger.
100% because Brashear showed no respect towards his fellow fighters.
He’d beat on guys, and then, inexplicably feel the need to show them up afterwards. Dusting his hands off afterwards, or talking crap in the penalty box.
He just had zero respect for his fellow fighters. It was odd.
Recall the 2 fight game (Canucks vs the Leafs) where he beat Tie (especially the 2nd fight). Most guys would humbly let it end there. But Brash, for whatever reason, had to rub it in.
Even as a Canucks fan watching, it was cringe-worthy to see.
I’m not sure what year it was, but one of the lockout seasons when Brash played in the LNAH, some kid challenged him to a fight, and Brash quickly dropped him...but then when the kid was KO’d, he continued to beat on him afterwards. Brashear threw repeated punches to the now defenseless guys face for no real reason. This wasn’t a young Brashear. He was a veteran player.
Brashear was, unfortunately, a bit of an a55hole.
Recall, Brashear had at least 2 instances where he beat up people in off ice incidents (in Vancouver and NJ I believe). I believe the Vancouver incident was a man simply saying to Brashear’s wife that she wasn’t allowed to have a baby in the shared townhouse gym where they lived. Brashear thought that was worthy of beating an old man.
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- Mar 10, 2010
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Yea that makes total sense. Good stories.
Generally the fighters are often the most popular guys on their teams. Say what you will but hockey players universally respect the role of the guys who have their back. Often when I hear the toughest guys interviewed after they retire they are really humble, respectful, likable guys. Even the guys I cheered against seem cool. I guess Brash was wired differently and kind of the exception to the rule.
Boris Le Tigre
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Your Boy Troy
Registered User
True, but plenty of players did.
Bob Probert would strip out of his jersey, and snorted blow before games.
Dave Brown would tighten his sleeves.
Brad May wore unfitted goaltender jerseys.
A lot fighters were users of PEDs as well.
Howie Hodge
Zombie Woof
Rob Ray continued to fight even after the jerseys had to be tied down. And he was fine. (Well except when he fought super heavyweights like Peter Worrel.)
Donald Brashear also backed down from wrestler Kevin Nash at an event in Montreal, for what it's worth. (I would too.)
Boris Le Tigre
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Yeah. I’m probably too hard on Ray with that over simple assessment. He just seemed to have loosing the jersey down to a science. Opponent takes grip yard sale ensues...
There is a sad end to the Brash story as I read recently he is working at a Tim Hortons that former teammate Pierre Sevingy owns.
You’re right, Rob Ray did have ‘losing the jersey’ down to a science, but inexplicably, he became a better fighter after the tie down rule came into effect.
In his early years, he was a guy that fought a lot, but wasn’t really too effective. I believe Gary Valk got the better of him.
In an era of huge, one dimensional fighters on every roster, after the rule change, Ray was good at his job. Yes, as you mention he could get in way over his head with some of the guys he was too small against, but it was kind of crazy how he almost reinvented himself after the rule change.
But, Ray’s shining moment for me is still when the Nordiques fan jumps on the ice and goes to the Sabres bench. Everyone else waits for the refs/security to grab the dude, but Ray decides to go in a different direction: grabs him and throws about 20 punches at the guys head in 2 seconds.
In his early years, he was a guy that fought a lot, but wasn’t really too effective. I believe Gary Valk got the better of him.
In an era of huge, one dimensional fighters on every roster, after the rule change, Ray was good at his job. Yes, as you mention he could get in way over his head with some of the guys he was too small against, but it was kind of crazy how he almost reinvented himself after the rule change.
But, Ray’s shining moment for me is still when the Nordiques fan jumps on the ice and goes to the Sabres bench. Everyone else waits for the refs/security to grab the dude, but Ray decides to go in a different direction: grabs him and throws about 20 punches at the guys head in 2 seconds.
cabinessence
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2017
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If you recall it was the fact that Brashear was skating by the Bruins bench showboating and boasting during the game after the first fight. Though it was a dirty stick job, it was not a clubbing over the head as many papers and posters have claimed.
cabinessence
Registered User
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Crushing his head into the ice or punching him from behind and falling on top of him? It is often forgotten that Bertuzzi got a huge standing O for the act. It wasn't until Moore couldn't get up that many who were seconds before cheering were now saying what a disgusting act. Moore suffered a crack vertebrae...bad injury, but the headlines decided to run with Broken Neck. Both are bad. Which one seems to be more dramatic?
TheDawnOfANewTage
Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
- Dec 17, 2018
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Here for the random Ray commentary. Dude took advantage of a rule blindspot so that he could fight partially nude- goddammit, I don’t want hockey to ever go back to that, but as a part of hockey history.. it’s goddamned amazing. Like what an insane f***ing sport- “oh I can punch this dude in the face better if all my equipment gets stripped off first, cool! Lemme keep everything as loose as possible to ensure that happens as i play a sport (bare knuckle boxing) within a sport (hockey).“ Fuggin insane, that era was.
Ps- Ray is the most dad of all dads now. We’re talkin’ grilling while wearing socks and sandals- dude literally shared a meme about his kids spending his money on instagram. Just funny af to me seeing that dude grow old and domesticated, idk, figured he’d be more in the Barnaby camp. Nope, turns out it was just a job for him.
Ps- Ray is the most dad of all dads now. We’re talkin’ grilling while wearing socks and sandals- dude literally shared a meme about his kids spending his money on instagram. Just funny af to me seeing that dude grow old and domesticated, idk, figured he’d be more in the Barnaby camp. Nope, turns out it was just a job for him.
ted2019
History of Hockey
Maybe Brashear knew that McSorley was a knucklehead and would explode and take a dumb penalty or 2 during the game if he refused. Sounds to be an intelligent response to get a PP or 2 for his team.
- Jan 22, 2007
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I don't. It was a polarizing role, but I think it was a beautiful role. What other role in professional sports is a player beloved for defending and providing cover for their teammates while putting their bodies through the shredder? The enforcer was the most beloved player on the team in many cases--truly loved by his teammates. Were they often exploited by coaches and professional hockey? Yes. But they also made a handsome living for it.
I once spoke to a "recognizable" enforcer and asked him about this. His reply, "I got paid a lot of money when I would have been laying brick. I loved my job."
