Friedman: Brandon Saad Possible Trade?

[Hello Johnny]

A 22 year who handles #1 minutes for his club but isn't a unanimous #1 across the league yet. Sound the alarm.

 

[Viqsi]

To me he's highly overrated and overpaid, got lucky he played with the right team at the right time.

Would that "right team at the right time" be Chicago during one of those Cup wins, or Columbus when he put up his best season ever in goals and points scored? Can't tell which you meant 'cause they're both kind of notable, y'know.

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He did pretty well last year with Nashville. The entire predator team is struggling out of the gate. Not a great patch for him right now but he clicked pretty well right off the bat last year

This is a common pattern of disbelief - there's perfectly valid excuses for absolutely everyone and everything except [city] and [city team]. Usually it's less about objective validity and more a "but they're [team], of course they're going to suck" preconception steadfastly held on to.

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The people reading need to take an english class. He never said a trade was going down, or that he had any source suggesting that he was on the block. There is a difference between musing about possibilities and suggesting that a guy is being shopped, and often people can't seem to distinguish the two. Freidman did the earlier and people reacted as if he had done the latter.

Thank you. You get a cookie.

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But, since they acquired Saad, they got Richards fired, had a terrible year, then traded Jones for Johansen, and still they dont look like a solid team IMO.

Y'know, you can just come out and say that you haven't watched the Jackets play this year. It's okay. We get it. The team's been historically bad, and your time is probably valuable, and so you might hesitate to start paying attention. That's fine. We won't judge. (much)

 

[Halla]

You'd lose Marner in the trade. Cap relief.

no we wouldnt. we don't give up marner for a 50-55pt winger that is 5 years older. 15 pts in 16 games as a rookie, marner goes absolutely nowhere

edit:16 pts now after what will be a candidate for goal of the year!

 

[robes1]

Pens should somehow shed some of the dead weight they have in contracts (Fleury, Kunitz), and trade for Saad. I'd say Maatta+.

 

[Viqsi]

Pens should somehow shed some of the dead weight they have in contracts (Fleury, Kunitz), and trade for Saad. I'd say Maatta+.

Because a team that already has Werenski, Murray, JJ, and Nutivaara at LHD (plus about three or four more guys in the minors who could be decent NHL callups if needed) absolutely could use another LHD. Yep. Totally makes sense.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

A 22 year who handles #1 minutes for his club but isn't a unanimous #1 across the league yet. Sound the alarm.

Getting #1 minutes on a team doesnt make you a no.1 dman

Mike Green is a #1 dman then, along with Alex Edler, Nick Leddy, Andy Greene, Morgan Reilly, and John Carlson

 

[57special]

8 teams have cap space to do this.
Coyotes
Hurricanes
Ducks
Kings
Wings
Panthers
Devils
Wild

Wild? No.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Getting #1 minutes on a team doesnt make you a no.1 dman

He's 22 years old. Not exactly panicking over here.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

He's 22 years old. Not exactly panicking over here.

I am not saying he isnt a good dman. But he is most certainly not a no.1 right now, and he might never be, which is fine.

I think he is an every day no 2/3 right now. I think he can be a no.2 on a cup winning team in time, but not now. I think guys like him and Klefbom, Erik Johnson, Muzzin, Brodie are all in that category

All really solid dmen that are well rounded, but not quite no.1 caliber dmen, and thats fine. Its not meant to be a knock on any of them

 

[mikeyp24]

^you have your right to your opinion but by saying 2-3 dman that's likely saying he is between the 45th and 90th best D in the league which again is no slouch or put down. I'm more likely to put him between 25-45. And if going by you put your best 2 D on top pair D regardless of handedness... I believe he would be on the top pair of 66% of the leagues 1st pair minimum. Again just opinions I understand.you aren't putting him down but anyone who has watched every generation he has.been in this year there might have been only 1 or 2ngames where he wasn't the best D on the ice for either team.

 

[Hello Johnny]

I am not saying he isnt a good dman. But he is most certainly not a no.1 right now, and he might never be, which is fine.

I think he is an every day no 2/3 right now. I think he can be a no.2 on a cup winning team in time, but not now. I think guys like him and Klefbom, Erik Johnson, Muzzin, Brodie are all in that category

All really solid dmen that are well rounded, but not quite no.1 caliber dmen, and thats fine. Its not meant to be a knock on any of them

So what's the big deal? You seem to care an awful lot about this.

Johansen isn't exactly lighting the league on fire at the moment and we decided to change our trajectory by trading a potentially elite center for a potentially elite defenseman. Having Wennberg made the trade easier, and he and Saad have great chemistry, and Jones' presence on D has been huge for us. He might not be a league-wide #1 yet (and sure, maybe he never gets there, but we have confidence, not to mention some kid named Werenski as an insurance policy ) but we're building what looks to be one of the top defensive units in the league and he's a major piece of that.

So tell me again how Jarmo "shot himself in the foot"?

 

[major major]

I am not saying he isnt a good dman. But he is most certainly not a no.1 right now, and he might never be, which is fine.

I think he is an every day no 2/3 right now. I think he can be a no.2 on a cup winning team in time, but not now. I think guys like him and Klefbom, Erik Johnson, Muzzin, Brodie are all in that category

All really solid dmen that are well rounded, but not quite no.1 caliber dmen, and thats fine. Its not meant to be a knock on any of them

I don't know if you've seen it in your viewings, but Jones took a step this year. It might be a step back later, but he's been #1 quality this year.

 

[Viqsi]

So what's the big deal? You seem to care an awful lot about this.

Johansen isn't exactly lighting the league on fire at the moment and we decided to change our trajectory by trading a potentially elite center for a potentially elite defenseman. Having Wennberg made the trade easier, and he and Saad have great chemistry, and Jones' presence on D has been huge for us. He might not be a league-wide #1 yet (and sure, maybe he never gets there, but we have confidence, not to mention some kid named Werenski as an insurance policy ) but we're building what looks to be one of the top defensive units in the league and he's a major piece of that.

So tell me again how Jarmo "shot himself in the foot"?

Easy - Ryan Johansen was the only player he'd heard of on the Jackets and so clearly we traded away our only star for someone redundant. It's SCIENCE.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

So what's the big deal? You seem to care an awful lot about this.

Johansen isn't exactly lighting the league on fire at the moment and we decided to change our trajectory by trading a potentially elite center for a potentially elite defenseman. Having Wennberg made the trade easier, and he and Saad have great chemistry, and Jones' presence on D has been huge for us. He might not be a league-wide #1 yet (and sure, maybe he never gets there, but we have confidence, not to mention some kid named Werenski as an insurance policy ) but we're building what looks to be one of the top defensive units in the league and he's a major piece of that.

So tell me again how Jarmo "shot himself in the foot"?

Lol. You're the one getting up in arms about my quote, not me.

But hate to break it to you, neither Jones nor Johansen were/are "potentially elite"

Both have potentially to be pretty damn good, but not elite

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Lol. You're the one getting up in arms about my quote, not me.

But hate to break it to you, neither Jones nor Johansen were/are "potentially elite"

Both have potentially to be pretty damn good, but not elite

Just stop.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I don't know if you've seen it in your viewings, but Jones took a step this year. It might be a step back later, but he's been #1 quality this year.

Remember when a Torts system made Dan Girardi look like a #1 dman?

Yea, keep that in mind...

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Just stop.

Ok, pretend Jones will be an elite dman all you want, outside of columbus I dont think you find anyone who thinks he will be an ELITE no.1 dman in the league.

Like I said, he will be a solid dman, like a rock solid no.2 if he trends right, but thats probably his ceiling

Its like you guys cant accept he isnt no.1 material

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Ok, pretend Jones will be an elite dman all you want, outside of columbus I dont think you find anyone who thinks he will be an ELITE no.1 dman in the league.

Like I said, he will be a solid dman, like a rock solid no.2 if he trends right, but thats probably his ceiling

Its like you guys cant accept he isnt no.1 material

Right. They are being close-minded and totally unwilling to accept or even consider an alternative opinion. It's like they've made up their minds that it can only go one way with Jones.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Lol. You're the one getting up in arms about my quote, not me.

But hate to break it to you, neither Jones nor Johansen were/are "potentially elite"

Both have potentially to be pretty damn good, but not elite

Fine. You still haven't answered my question.

 

[JKinCLE]

This thread will go the full 40 pages unless a mod shuts it down. HawkeyTalkMan will keep going until he has the last word and declares himself the winner of this argument.

Seth Jones will become an elite defenseman. He is well on his way.

I do agree with him that Saad will forever just be a very nice complimentary piece. But that is the only thing I agree with.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Right. They are being close-minded and totally unwilling to accept or even consider an alternative opinion. It's like they've made up their minds that it can only go one way with Jones.

 

[kdog82]

I don't think Saad gets dealt but what would take from the Bruins?

Spooner + McQuaid or K. Miller + 2nd?

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Right. They are being close-minded and totally unwilling to accept or even consider an alternative opinion. It's like they've made up their minds that it can only go one way with Jones.

Bingo

Like its such an egregious transgression to say he will be a real good #2 one day, if he isnt already

Once upon a time, a young Tyler Myers looked like a sure fire #1D too, now, not so much

 

[Viqsi]

Remember when a Torts system made Dan Girardi look like a #1 dman?

Yea, keep that in mind...

That would be the heavy shot-blocking system he used to employ with the Rangers and tried to use with Vancouver and Team USA in the WCoH. He's gone back to a variant on "Safe Is Death" this year with the Jackets (apparently Team USA was a bit of a wakeup call for him) - and Jones has looked even better under that approach (as has most of the rest of the team). Perhaps if you'd watched any Jackets games whatsoever this year you might have noticed this.

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I don't think Saad gets dealt but what would take from the Bruins?

Spooner + McQuaid or K. Miller + 2nd?

There isn't really a good match, mostly because Marchand and Pasternak are playing so well that asking for them right now (or, potentially, ever) would be lunacy. Essentially, what we'd need back from a Saad deal is... Saad. Or a young #1C, but Boston doesn't have one of those and would have to be insane to trade such to us in such a deal anyways.

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Bingo

Like its such an egregious transgression to say he will be a real good #2 one day, if he isnt already

Once upon a time, a young Tyler Myers looked like a sure fire #1D too, now, not so much

Irony Recognition Failure.

 

[mikeyp24]

Right. They are being close-minded and totally unwilling to accept or even consider an alternative opinion. It's like they've made up their minds that it can only go one way with Jones.

Your #1