Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[Agent Zuuuub]

I think what Knave is trying to say is that Brady is not THE GUY. even though a lot people here are convinced he's THE guy.

He's right.

 

[OD99]

Tampa Bay is still in a playoff spot after trading Stamkos.

Stamkos had seasons of 45, 50 and 60 goals before Kucherov was even in the NHL! He was deemed expendable at 34 years old, and quite frankly I respect the decision by the Bolts to move on.

He was going to require too many years of a commitment. Ruthless management, but they brought in a younger, proven goal scorer.

San Jose after Cheechoo got better.

Cheechoo was washed before he got here, and everyone knew it. He was already 2 years removed from his miracle season.

The Penguins with their revolving door of wingers for Crosby/Malkin continued to win Stanley Cups.

Yes, two of the all-time greats, who also had an all-time goalie and several outstanding D to compliment some very good wingers. Great comparison.

 

[Knave]

Still no answers here. What does Brady Tkachuk do that's so special that he cannot be traded?

All I've learned - not an elite goalscorer/shooter, not a good defender or two way player, not a good playmaker.

Calgary is ahead of us in the standings despite trading Matthew Tkachuk who is just a much better version of Brady Tkachuk. They also had Gaudreau sign with Columbus. Two massive losses. And they're more competitive than the Brady Tkachuk Senators. That says it all.

At some point the team and players need to be evaluated. And maybe the guy who is always top 5 in shots in the entire league and can't break 40 goals despite being gifted freebies by Stutzle and Batherson isn't the player you think he is.

Like I said - if this team fails to make the playoffs again then you trade him. No question about it.

 

[umma gumma]

Still no answers here. What does Brady Tkachuk do that's so special that he cannot be traded?

All I've learned - not an elite goalscorer/shooter, not a good defender or two way player, not a good playmaker.

Calgary is ahead of us in the standings despite trading Matthew Tkachuk who is just a much better version of Brady Tkachuk. They also had Gaudreau sign with Columbus. Two massive losses. And they're more competitive than the Brady Tkachuk Senators. That says it all.

At some point the team and players need to be evaluated. And maybe the guy who is always top 5 in shots in the entire league and can't break 40 goals despite being gifted freebies by Stutzle and Batherson isn't the player you think he is.

Like I said - if this team fails to make the playoffs again then you trade him. No question about it.

No one said he can't be traded. Its the ignoring of terrible ownership, poor asset management by a useless yes man for a GM (which are the largest factors by far as to why we haven't seen the playoffs) and pinning it on one player that is, to quote Denis Potvin, "outlandish".

 

[TheNewEra]

I think what Knave is trying to say is that Brady is not THE GUY. even though a lot people here are convinced he's THE guy.

He's right.

look if you are talking purely offensive metrics then yes he isnt the guy

but he is easily either the most impactful/second most impactful forward we have (although with how stutzle has been playing i think stutzle permanently takes that top spot soon)

what you said is at least a somewhat rational point, what the other guy is spewing is nonsense lmao, one post compared him to cheechoo like brady has only had one good year, then called him a 3rd liner, then compared him to gaudette playing with stutzle, (Even though im pretty sure he got most of his goals off the 4th line lol), then kunitz lmao. its pure nonsense

as for your other post of having to stack brady's line, it probably does get him an extra 10 points a year or so but we have seen him lead the team in 2 out of the last 3 seasons for points. So its not like he isnt a top line talent either. But just like any other talent, you give them better players and they produce better

 

[Knave]

No one said he can't be traded. Its the ignoring of terrible ownership, poor asset management by a useless yes man for a GM (which are the largest factors by far as to why we haven't seen the playoffs) and pinning it on one player that is, to quote Denis Potvin, "outlandish".

I guess I just don't see the value in building around a guy who shoots the puck as much as Brady Tkachuk and converts on comparatively so little when the team continues to miss the playoffs. Last season Brady Tkachuk was 4th in shots, tied for 19th in goals. That is his career year so far. He's on pace this year to surpass last year but his pace has slowed over time. Lets see where he ends up at the end of the season.

This could very well be an offseason of addition by subtraction. Without Tkachuk maybe the players who actually score at a decent rate when they shoot the puck can elevate their games. And maybe they don't. But what we have now is not working and I'm not sure why we should keep banging our heads against the wall "he maybe it will work in season 10!"

But he's "the guy". Nobody can tell you how, why he's the guy. The team is a losing one. It never makes the playoffs. The numbers and on ice play don't reflect him being "the guy"... but he's "the guy". It's absurd.

They can't say why he's the guy because the reality is he's a power forward. He hits, he gets into dirty areas, he's a bit of a pest. And typically those guys aren't making big dollars or shooting the puck as much. We have one. His name is Brady Tkachuk. He makes big dollars. He's miscast on this team and as a result we're going on 8 years of missed playoffs.

This used to be a place where people would laugh about Brian Burke quotes about "truculence" and here we are buying it hook line and sinker. And just like Toronto's Brian Burke era it has been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[OD99]

Still no answers here. What does Brady Tkachuk do that's so special that he cannot be traded?

Anyone can be traded if the price is right but he is a unique player when you add in his physical play and that should be very apparent.

All I've learned - not an elite goalscorer/shooter

He is tied for 6th in the league in goals, and is 2nd in goals for LW.

not a good defender

Work in progress

not a good playmaker.

Tied for 14th in the league in assists, and is tied for 6th fo LW

Also tied for, what 11th in overall scoring?

Calgary is ahead of us in the standings despite trading Matthew Tkachuk who is just a much better version of Brady Tkachuk. They also had Gaudreau sign with Columbus. Two massive losses. And they're more competitive than the Brady Tkachuk Senators. That says it all.

They haven't made the playoffs since they made that trade, and had Markstrom as their backbone

At some point the team and players need to be evaluated. And maybe the guy who is always top 5 in shots in the entire league and can't break 40 goals despite being gifted freebies by Stutzle and Batherson isn't the player you think he is.

LOL - again, who else have they elevated to that level? Scoring is hard, and Brady does it very well, while also being a tough SOB.

Like I said - if this team fails to make the playoffs again then you trade him. No question about it.

Many questions. D and goaltenders are required for success and the Senators are just finally having some semblance of those elements this season.

 

[umma gumma]

I guess I just don't see the value in building around a guy who shoots the puck as much as Brady Tkachuk and converts on comparatively so little when the team continues to miss the playoffs. Last season Brady Tkachuk was 4th in shots, tied for 19th in goals. That is his career year so far. He's on pace this year to surpass last year but his pace has slowed over time. Lets see where he ends up at the end of the season.

This could very well be an offseason of addition by subtraction. Without Tkachuk maybe the players who actually score at a decent rate when they shoot the puck can elevate their games. And maybe they don't. But what we have now is not working and I'm not sure why we should keep banging our heads against the wall "he maybe it will work in season 10!"

But he's "the guy". Nobody can tell you how, why he's the guy. The team is a losing one. It never makes the playoffs. The numbers and on ice play don't reflect him being "the guy"... but he's "the guy". It's absurd.

They can't say why he's the guy because the reality is he's a power forward. He hits, he gets into dirty areas, he's a bit of a pest. And typically those guys aren't making big dollars or shooting the puck as much. We have one. His name is Brady Tkachuk. He makes big dollars. He's miscast on this team and as a result we're going on 8 years of missed playoffs.

This used to be a place where people would laugh about Brian Burke quotes about "truculence" and here we are buying it hook line and sinker. And just like Toronto's Brian Burke era it has been an unmitigated disaster.

Calvin certainly did have a vivid imagination.

Those are a lot of words to say "I don't like him'.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Calgary is an odd example to raise. That turn of events pulverized their direction and sent them in to a rebuild/retool, but there was a lot else going on and other bodies heading out that impacts the situation. Lindholm, Gudreau, Markstrom, Lindholm, Zadorov to name a few. They're competitive to a point because guys like Weegar, Andersson, Kadri, Backlund, Kadri, Coleman, etc. are still solid NHLer's, veterans from winning teams, even if a couple of them are overpaid. Weegar/Andersson is still a hell of a top 2. Add in a rookie like Wolf playing as well as he has is keeping them afloat, but I don't think anyone being realistic has high expectations of them. They're now out of a playoff spot and I'll bet that is definitely where they finish the year. They are firmly behind Edmonton, Winnipeg & Vancouver for where their teams are right now imo.

 

[umma gumma]

Calgary is an odd example to raise.

One of many.

 

[bicboi64]

as long as he plays with norris brady can't hurt the team too much and his positives actually matter.

need to keep the Brady-Norris-Batherson line together forever.

I think Knave is going too far. Brady is not really a passenger, but you HAVE to stack Brady's line. otherwise it doesn't work.

Pretty much this. He's not a passenger by any means, but he isn't a focal piece that the teams offense should be centred on or facilitated through, at least not if you want long term success.

You don't build around any player who is bad in their own end, takes too many penalties, and need insulated linemates.

You build around guys like Stu, but line up Tkachuk with someone like Norris who can clean up Brady's rebounds, mitigate his lack of D, and it gives you depth scoring.

 

[Golden_Jet]

so i want to understand your point

you are saying brady basically got 31 points in 28 games and his team leading 14 goals accidentally? or by being in the right place at the right time (sens have been trying and plugging people in the top 6 and it hasnt worked like ever haha) do you realize how stupid that sounds lol

of course he doesnt have the same offensive skillset as stutzle but if we are discounting how he impacts the play in other ways then i dont know what to say

gaudette has more points than pinto and greig, still wouldnt trade either of them for gaudette

Poster doesn’t understand nuances of hockey, thinks it’s EA sports and soft shinny hockey. That’s become obvious,
Let’s all just enjoy the satire

 

[Knave]

4th in shots since entering the league
32nd in goals scored since entering the league
280th in shooting percentage for players who have played more than 250 games in that period (Brady Tkachuk has played ~460 as a reference point)

High volume shooter. Low volume scorer. Not a strong defender. That's a bad combo if you want a winning team.

 

[OD99]

4th in shots since entering the league
32nd in goals scored since entering the league
280th in shooting percentage for players who have played more than 250 games in that period (Brady Tkachuk has played ~460 as a reference point)

High volume shooter. Low volume scorer. Not a strong defender. That's a bad combo if you want a winning team.

LOL.

This just in, getting shots on net is now considered bad!

32nd in goals over your career is also a significant sign that you don't know how to score!

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

4th in shots since entering the league
32nd in goals scored since entering the league
280th in shooting percentage for players who have played more than 250 games in that period (Brady Tkachuk has played ~460 as a reference point)

High volume shooter. Low volume scorer. Not a strong defender. That's a bad combo if you want a winning team.

So trade him for guys that are lower than 32nd in goals and 4th in shots? I don't understand what you want (other than to whine endlessly).

 

[Golden_Jet]

4th in shots since entering the league
32nd in goals scored since entering the league
280th in shooting percentage for players who have played more than 250 games in that period (Brady Tkachuk has played ~460 as a reference point)

High volume shooter. Low volume scorer. Not a strong defender. That's a bad combo if you want a winning team.

lol 32 teams, and 32nd in Goals is bad?
Second in hits in that time,

You should be hating on Pinto, or Sanderson with his 2 EVP, but no you’d prefer your agenda,

 

[Big Muddy]

Just stick the guy on ignore. It's tiresome dealing with monolithic themed posters. I don’t know why people bother responding unless they like the jousting. Might not be that many people making the same point over and over either (hint). LOL.

 

[Knave]

So trade him for guys that are lower than 32nd in goals and 4th in shots? I don't understand what you want (other than to whine endlessly).

Lets see if this team can make the playoffs before any radical change is made.

I'm pointing out that someone who shoots as much as Ovechkin, scores as much as Nazem Kadri and plays defense like Phil Kessel probably isn't a winner being held back by his team but is in fact part of the problem.

 

[bicboi64]

I think the point Knave is arguing about high volume shooting relative to how much he scores is related to how little Tkachuk produces to players that shoot at a similar pace.

Last year the top 5 shooters by frequency were MacKinnon, Pastrnak, AM34, Tkachuk, and Forsberg. Over the last 5 years, the top 5 shooters in the league by frequency are Pasta, MacKinnon, AM34, Tkachuk and McDavid.

If you're going to shoot that much, it'd be nice if his point production matched other high shooting players. Aside from Forsberg, those other guys are elite offensive talents and their shots translate to more success than Tkachuks.

You can interpret this as he needs to shoot less, but the quality of his shots is not exactly in the same category as other elite scorers so maybe do something to modify his game so his shots result in more scores.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Lets see if this team can make the playoffs before any radical change is made.

I'm pointing out that someone who shoots as much as Ovechkin, scores as much as Nazem Kadri and plays defense like Phil Kessel probably isn't a winner being held back by his team but is in fact part of the problem.

Can’t wait until the few people f*** off with respect to the bullshit narrative abt Brady’s defence.
Saying it out loud to the 5 people who agree does not in fact make it so.

No offence of course.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Lets see if this team can make the playoffs before any radical change is made.

I'm pointing out that someone who shoots as much as Ovechkin, scores as much as Nazem Kadri and plays defense like Phil Kessel probably isn't a winner being held back by his team but is in fact part of the problem.

Of course he's not a winner. He just turned 25 two months ago. He's still learning and developing his all around game. Last night he was making defensive plays that you'd never see him make years prior. He had a coach in DJ that didn't try to coach him, just thought the good outweighed the bad enough to let Brady do whatever he wanted to on the ice. It takes time, and when he became the captain of the team it was expected that it was going to be a role he'd grow into, not one that he would immediately be able to fulfill among the best in the league.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Can’t wait until the few people f*** off with respect to the bullshit narrative abt Brady’s defence.
Saying it out loud to the 5 people who agree does not in fact make it so.

No offence of course.

It’s idiotic, shows never played competitive hockey, or hockey with body checking, or hockey where fights broke out, or teams with coaching, like some of us have.

Just GM mode on PlayStation.

 

[Micklebot]

I think the point Knave is arguing about high volume shooting relative to how much he scores is related to how little Tkachuk produces to players that shoot at a similar pace.

Last year the top 5 shooters by frequency were MacKinnon, Pastrnak, AM34, Tkachuk, and Forsberg. Over the last 5 years, the top 5 shooters in the league by frequency are Pasta, MacKinnon, AM34, Tkachuk and McDavid.

If you're going to shoot that much, it'd be nice if his point production matched other high shooting players. Aside from Forsberg, those other guys are elite offensive talents and their shots translate to more success than Tkachuks.

You can interpret this as he needs to shoot less, but the quality of his shots is not exactly in the same category as other elite scorers so maybe do something to modify his game so his shots result in more scores.

This is such a bizarre argument, He's on pace for over 90 pts, why are we nitpicking how he got there?

Nobody should be expecting him to score like MacKinnon, Pastrnak or AM34, he's having plenty of success the way he is shooting so why would he modify it?

It's just looking for something to complain about, at least the criticism of his defensive play makes sense, he shoots too much for the production he gets is just weird.

 

[Dionysus]

4th in shots since entering the league
32nd in goals scored since entering the league
280th in shooting percentage for players who have played more than 250 games in that period (Brady Tkachuk has played ~460 as a reference point)

High volume shooter. Low volume scorer. Not a strong defender. That's a bad combo if you want a winning team.

Not seeing the point here. If he took less shots but had a better shooting percentage Ottawa would have had a good team over the past 6 seasons?

Don't see it. Brady has a unique game, it produces offense. It doesn't seem to
take away from other players games. If anything he shows the ability to complement the highest skill guys on the team in Stu and Bath.

At times with very few scoring options, Brady has had to do too much offensively. Leading to trying to make plays that are outside his abilities, or cheating for offense. On a more balanced team with other options, he can do what he does best. Create space, hold onto pucks, make smart passes, get to the net, generate shots and chances.

 

[umma gumma]

Now Brady shoots too much. Wow.