Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk: Episode 5 - Management Strikes Back

[stempniaksen]

Implying that a guy who scored 8 NCAA goals was anywhere near a "finished product" coming into the league is insane.

Some of the people who were crucifying BT in his draft year and calling him a middle-six forward are the same people now claiming that he's somehow (already) almost reached his peak. It's baffling honestly.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

This is the frustrating but hilarious part about people arguing for Kotkaniemi being the better pick. There seems to be some strange and warped belief that Brady Tkachuk was a finished product at the draft, and that he has no room left to grow....Keeping in mind this is a kid thats trying to play a power forward style of game.....

Brady is a raw as it comes. Everything about him is green and raw. He just happens to be big and strong and talented enough to ALREADY make a huge a impact on the ice. Its not unrealistic at all to say that he could be twice the player that he is now during his prime (both physically and offensively). Hes going to be an absolute beast of a player that is badly wanted by every GM in the league.

Yeah, it's some dumb logic. The kid isn't even strong in his skates yet, looks like Bambi on ice but still strong enough to fight for space around the net. When he fills out, he's going to be immovable.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Yeah, it's some dumb logic. The kid isn't even strong in his skates yet, looks like Bambi on ice but still strong enough to fight for space around the net. When he fills out, he's going to be immovable.

This is all true except that he really does need to work on his balance and edge work. Without that he can bulk up all he wants he'll still be Bambi out there. I'm confident that he will though.

Certainly looks better than Kotkaniemi right now. Probably best to revisit this topic in 3-4 years though.

 

[Six Assets]

Implying that a guy who scored 8 NCAA goals was anywhere near a "finished product" coming into the league is insane.

Some of the people who were crucifying BT in his draft year and calling him a middle-six forward are the same people now claiming that he's somehow (already) almost reached his peak. It's baffling honestly.

Where do you guys get this from lol?

 

[aragorn]

It's the rugged play everywhere on the ice that I like from him, he hits guys everywhere, he intimidates players, he's always in somebodies face, he's the type of player that this team has needed for over a decade IMO.

Formenton could turn into a lighter version of Tkachuk since he also plays with a bit of an edge I like & Paul should as well & needs somebody to keep on him to play tougher.

 

[slamigo]

The thing that impresses me the most with Brady is that he flat out loves playing. You can tell he just loves every moment that he's on the ice.

 

[Micklebot]

Implying that a guy who scored 8 NCAA goals was anywhere near a "finished product" coming into the league is insane.

Some of the people who were crucifying BT in his draft year and calling him a middle-six forward are the same people now claiming that he's somehow (already) almost reached his peak. It's baffling honestly.

Finished product is a bad way to describe it, but his game was more polished than your typical draft pick, which is in part why he made the team in his first year and had as much success as he did.

Also, I'm not sure why it would be baffling that those who thought he topped out as a middle 6 forward in his draft year now think he's close to topped out; for better or for worse, they are being consistent if you ask me.

 

[stempniaksen]

Finished product is a bad way to describe it, but his game was more polished than your typical draft pick, which is in part why he made the team in his first year and had as much success as he did.

Also, I'm not sure why it would be baffling that those who thought he topped out as a middle 6 forward in his draft year now think he's close to topped out; for better or for worse, they are being consistent if you ask me.

I disagree with your first point. I think it's easy for people to assume that guys are bigger/stronger are more polished or further along in their development, but it ignores other factors. I mean Kotkaniemi (since that's the example being used) put up more goals and assists(in a handful of extra games to be fair) against men than BT was able to put up against "kids" in college. Would this not imply that JK came into the league as a more polished offensive player? I think I just disagree with the fact that BT's game going into last season was, in any way, polished. The guy looked like a kid out there more often than not.

Fair point for your 2nd point though. I obviously disagree with their assessments, but can't knock them for being consistent I suppose!

 

[Micklebot]

I disagree with your first point. I think it's easy for people to assume that guys are bigger/stronger are more polished or further along in their development, but it ignores other factors. I mean Kotkaniemi (since that's the example being used) put up more goals and assists(in a handful of extra games to be fair) against men than BT was able to put up against "kids" in college. Would this not imply that JK came into the league as a more polished offensive player? I think I just disagree with the fact that BT's game going into last season was, in any way, polished. The guy looked like a kid out there more often than not.

Fair point for your 2nd point though. I obviously disagree with their assessments, but can't knock them for being consistent I suppose!

I'm not saying Tkachuk was more polished because he was big, but this is a kid that has lived in the pro hockey world his entire life, he's had access to the best coaches from the get go.

If anything, I actually found physically he was less polished, looking awkward and having yet to fill out into his frame, but mentally is where the polish was imo. I thought that existed in his play at the college level too. I was one of the people defending him in his draft year and cautioning people not to look at goals and assists and intead look at how he played to get them.

I still think he lacks in some puck skills and his skating can use work. If he's able to improve in those areas it will really make a world of difference because the rest of his game imo is very mature.

 

[stempniaksen]

I'm not saying Tkachuk was more polished because he was big, but this is a kid that has lived in the pro hockey world his entire life, he's had access to the best coaches from the get go.

If anything, I actually found physically he was less polished, looking awkward and having yet to fill out into his frame, but mentally is where the polish was imo. I thought that existed in his play at the college level too. I was one of the people defending him in his draft year and cautioning people not to look at goals and assists and intead look at how he played to get them.

I still think he lacks in some puck skills and his skating can use work. If he's able to improve in those areas it will really make a world of difference because the rest of his game imo is very mature.

That's a fair point. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth with the size comment, it's just a them I've seen parroted a few times since he was drafted. Not sure I'm willing to put the same stock into "best coaches" that you are since Kotkaniemi was getting similar treatment in Finland (good players play high level, high level players get better coaching) but I'll give the mental aspect of being around the pro game and having Keith/Matt to lean on. It was very obvious from day 1 that Brady was a pro and knew what that entailed (both on an off the ice).

The puck skills issue is valid, imo, since it's something that plagued him last year and still does now (doesn't matter as much as it would with others guys given how he plays the game, but it's still something you'd like to see improve). I think his skating is finally getting there though. The last ~dozen games he hasn't looked like Bambi out there, he's been fighting through checks and blowing by people. He looks a lot less awkward out there, which can only be good for his game moving forward.

 

[R2010]

25-year old Tkachuk is going to be an absolute terror in the playoffs.

 

[swiftwin]

The weird thing I've noticed with Brady is that he's not playing an outright power forward's physical style in the sense that he shields the puck very well. He seems to have a very slippery and lanky style along the boards and tends to come out with the puck more often than not. I feel like that's the source of the early season bambi legs. It's not really a strength thing, but rather, an experience thing in terms of learning when and how to lean on opponents and when to "slip" through them. Same thing in front of the net. He's really good at getting control of the puck trough other people's feet and sticks.

Hopefully this bodes well for injury prone-ness, and that he can play at a reasonable weight that can still allow him to be pretty fast.

 

[stempniaksen]

The weird thing I've noticed with Brady is that he's not playing an outright power forward's physical style in the sense that he shields the puck very well. He seems to have a very slippery and lanky style along the boards and tends to come out with the puck more often than not. Same thing in front of the net. He's really good at getting control of the puck trough other people's feet and sticks.

Hopefully this bodes well for injury prone-ness, and that he can play at a reasonable weight that can still allow him to be pretty fast.

Good observation. He looks kinda "slippery" out there as opposed to a guy like Jagr who was just a man among boys who would use one hand to control the puck and the other to push off the defender. Maybe he'll gradually move into that style more as he continues to grow and fill out his frame, but as of now he does a great job of using what he's got to be a beast down low.

 

[swiftwin]

Good observation. He looks kinda "slippery" out there as opposed to a guy like Jagr who was just a man among boys who would use one hand to control the puck and the other to push off the defender. Maybe he'll gradually move into that style more as he continues to grow and fill out his frame, but as of now he does a great job of using what he's got to be a beast down low.

Sorry, I amended my post after you replied.

I'm also wondering if he's compensating for a lack strength thing, or if it's a style thing.

I feel like he could be incredibly effective if his opponents never know if he's going to stand them up, or slip past them like some weird hockey aikido thing. And since, he never truly controls and stick handles the puck, it's probably harder to read when he does one or the other. For example, someone like Crobsy or Jagr has phenomenal strength and stick handling skills, and can shield the puck, and make plays. I feel like Tkachuk never truly controls the puck, but also never truly does not control the puck due to his amazing ability to grab the puck from his feet or from a crowd of legs and sticks. I hope that makes sense.

 

[stempniaksen]

Sorry, I amended my post after you replied.

I'm also wondering if he's compensating for a lack strength thing, or if it's a style thing.

I feel like he could be incredibly effective if his opponents never know if he's going to stand them up, or slip past them like some weird hockey aikido thing. And since, he never truly controls and stick handles the puck, it's probably harder to read when he does one or the other. For example, someone like Crobsy or Jagr has phenomenal strength and stick handling skills, and can shield the puck, and make plays. I feel like Tkachuk never truly controls the puck, but also never truly does not control the puck due to his amazing ability to grab the puck from his feet or from a crowd of legs and sticks. I hope that makes sense.

That's pretty spot on, imo. He looks funky out there when he has the puck on his stick but there isn't a player in the league I want more than him if I'm picking someone to battle out front and "find a way" to get a stick on it. Some of his "puck control" (for lack of a better way of saying it) down low is incredibly unconventional, but (obviously) very effective as well. I've watched 80% of Brady's games as a pro (and another handful of him at BU and at the World Juniors) and I still can't nail down a comparison. The guy just has a style that is completely unique and completely his own, and it's real fun to watch.

 

[HF Reader]

That's pretty spot on, imo. He looks funky out there when he has the puck on his stick but there isn't a player in the league I want more than him if I'm picking someone to battle out front and "find a way" to get a stick on it. Some of his "puck control" (for lack of a better way of saying it) down low is incredibly unconventional, but (obviously) very effective as well. I've watched 80% of Brady's games as a pro (and another handful of him at BU and at the World Juniors) and I still can't nail down a comparison. The guy just has a style that is completely unique and completely his own, and it's real fun to watch.

There are a few points being made here. Who had the greater potential at the time of the draft, etc.
I wouldn't trade them one for one at this point. And if I were starting team from scratch and had to start with one of the two I'd take our guy.

 

[swiftwin]

That's pretty spot on, imo. He looks funky out there when he has the puck on his stick but there isn't a player in the league I want more than him if I'm picking someone to battle out front and "find a way" to get a stick on it. Some of his "puck control" (for lack of a better way of saying it) down low is incredibly unconventional, but (obviously) very effective as well. I've watched 80% of Brady's games as a pro (and another handful of him at BU and at the World Juniors) and I still can't nail down a comparison. The guy just has a style that is completely unique and completely his own, and it's real fun to watch.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure the only time I've ever seen Brady shield and control the puck was when he wanted to show up his brother.

... and even then, you could tell he was not comfortable stickhandling it, and preferred bouncing it off the boards and the back of the net.

 

[DJB]

post like these are kinda laughable. of course brady will look better right now when he's the more polished player and almost a year older. "he looks like a 3 C right now", completely ignoring the very respectable rookie season from him last season.

Brady is on the first line facing opposing teams first pair defence each and every night. Thats not the case with Kotkianemi.

Brady >>> Kot and its not even close.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

The weird thing I've noticed with Brady is that he's not playing an outright power forward's physical style in the sense that he shields the puck very well. He seems to have a very slippery and lanky style along the boards and tends to come out with the puck more often than not. I feel like that's the source of the early season bambi legs. It's not really a strength thing, but rather, an experience thing in terms of learning when and how to lean on opponents and when to "slip" through them. Same thing in front of the net. He's really good at getting control of the puck trough other people's feet and sticks.

Hopefully this bodes well for injury prone-ness, and that he can play at a reasonable weight that can still allow him to be pretty fast.

He does do those things, but I think often it's out of necessity. He's such a smart player that his relatively poor balance has forced him to find other ways to be successful in high traffic areas, which he has no fear of going into.

As he gets stronger and works on his footwork he should be able to add more of a bullish character to his game. It's a huge credit to his smarts and determination that he's able to be successful in these areas with how poor his explosiveness/skating is. If he does indeed get stronger on his skates he'll be so much better.

 

[TheDebater]

Brady's style is the rarest in hockey. Finding another top center is easier than finding a powerforward. We've never had a player like Brady before. He would have been the missing piece in the 2000s. I'd take him over Kotkaniemi 10 times out of 10.

This is the truth and the reason why Brady could be the best player in that draft by the time their careers are done.

 

[Masked]

I'm not saying Tkachuk was more polished because he was big, but this is a kid that has lived in the pro hockey world his entire life, he's had access to the best coaches from the get go.

Kotkaniemi is in the same boat. His dad played pro and coached in Finland.

 

[Micklebot]

Kotkaniemi is in the same boat. His dad played pro and coached in Finland.

I never said he didn't. I was just speaking to why and how Tkachuk was seen as a more polished prospect than most. More important though is how he played not what advantages he had to help him get there.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This is the truth and the reason why Brady could be the best player in that draft by the time their careers are done.

Sure he might if everything goes perfect for him and he adds elite hockey sense, skating and puck control.

But Svechnikov as a 19 year old is arguably the best forward on one of the best teams in the league. And he also plays a net driving powerforward game.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

9 shots on goal last night. Damn. He's among the league leaders in shots which is a good sign because those are all good players.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The thing that impresses me the most with Brady is that he flat out loves playing. You can tell he just loves every moment that he's on the ice.

Not to beat a dead horse but this is why I so very wished Stone stayed here. Tkachuk and Stone on the same team meant so many wins in the playoffs just due to the nature of their game and sheer will. ugh ill stop. Stone leaving will be this team biggest blunder.